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Old 26.07.2017, 12:51
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Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

Will be strange to have the streets full of silent electric cars assuming no other technology pops up.

Wonder how many new power stations they will have to build using what type of fuel plus later the problem of disposing of huge batteries full of exotic materials

The risk is they just move the pollution around instead of solving the problem to provide clean air.

Source

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has been calling for tougher measures to tackle air pollution, which kills 9,000 people a year in the capital.

Should not be a problem to find the finance; they seem to have plenty of money to fight terrorism that kills less than 90 people per year

Edit; So far it seems likely the US and China will continue to build conventional vehicles but their export markets will slowly disappear!
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Old 26.07.2017, 13:07
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

France did the same ban a week or so ago, & as someone mentioned on TV today, nobody banned steam engines, but they disappeared. Evolution will work when good alternatives are available.

They need to make electric mobility better before they can ban carbon fuel engines. Where are the charging points? Why are there no battery rental schemes so you can exchange your battery every few hundred kilometers? To ban something without providing an alternative shows limited thinking.

Why is Oxford Street in London the most polluted? Due to the access charge there are almost only buses, taxis and delivery trucks there. Maybe they could ban diesel powered transport first? If London taxis were converted to run on methane gas they would have a much cleaner exhaust.

Thanks to the stupid George Brown government, dirty diesel has been promoted as cleaner than engines with a catalytic converter.
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Old 26.07.2017, 13:25
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

Personally, I think they should ban the sale from 2025 onwards and ban the use from 2035 onwards.

Banning them with a short horizon will prompt quick investment and a goldrush to capture the market and encourage the infrastructure.

Being first mover can help attract the investment and manufacturing sites. Particularly useful in consideration of Brexit and the fact that electric cars have a much simpler supply chain than conventional cars.
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Old 26.07.2017, 13:28
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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Thanks to the stupid George Brown government, dirty diesel has been promoted as cleaner than engines with a catalytic converter.
Without stupid Labour government, we would have this diesel problem, we wouldn't have had the Iraq war, we wouldn't have had ISIS and wouldn't have had Brexit.
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:04
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

"Cars and vans" - so what about trucks, tractors, digger etc??

In a way it's a good move to focus minds. A nice bit of politics, rather like closing all nuclear power stations, by the due date today's politicians will be either retired or dead and won't need to sort it out...
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:08
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

Small, modular, Thorium-based molten salt reactors will supply more than enough energy, and we have plenty of time to invest in and develop them.
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:13
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

From what I can find there's nothing specific yet published, apart from high-level statements, so for the time being I think it's reasonable to infer a similar meaning to that of the French measures announced lay week.

So no, we won't be looking at all-electric vehicles, just that some sort of electric motors will be fitted allowing at last some level of hydrocarbon-free driving. So it's likely that a significant proportion may still be mainly powered by internal combustion engines.
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:19
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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Without stupid Labour government, we would have this diesel problem, we wouldn't have had the Iraq war, we wouldn't have had ISIS and wouldn't have had Brexit.
Codswallop if you think that a Conservative government wouldn't have followed America into Iraq based on the same lies. I am always bewildred that people really believe that.

Even if the sales of petrol cars is ended in 2040 there will still be tens of millions of petrol cars on the roads, and that will take another 20 or so years to gradually phase out.
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:22
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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Thanks to the stupid George Gordon Brown government, dirty diesel has been promoted as cleaner than engines with a catalytic converter.
ftfy

Actually it was, until it turned out it wasn't, when in fact VW were fiddling the emmisions results.
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:26
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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Small, modular, Thorium-based molten salt reactors will supply more than enough energy, and we have plenty of time to invest in and develop them.


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Old 26.07.2017, 14:33
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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"Cars and vans" - so what about trucks, tractors, digger etc??

In a way it's a good move to focus minds. A nice bit of politics, rather like closing all nuclear power stations, by the due date today's politicians will be either retired or dead and won't need to sort it out...
It's all politics without fixing anything.

Example: Wood burning stoves are bloody awful things.

They pollute more than modern diesel cars, which also pollute less then trucks and buses which will be deemed essential.

Admittedly from 2007
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/air-poll...th-away/972102

Quote:
Three million people in Switzerland – more than 40% of the population – live in regions that record above-average fine particle levels.
The Federal Environment Office says 21,000 tons of fine dust are emitted in Switzerland every year.
56% comes from the private and public use of mechanical abrasion.
The rest comes from diesel motors (17%), wood burning (15%), other burning (10%) and petrol, natural gas and natural oil (2%).
https://genevalunch.com/2011/11/10/h...ine-particles/

> More than 15 percent of fine particles, those minuscule bits of dust that are harmful to health, come from wood-burning stoves, the Swiss federal government now says, twice the amount shown by earlier research.

Also the BBC and the Grauniad and the B;J
- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39115829
- https://www.theguardian.com/environm...pollutionwatch
- http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2757/rr-1
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Old 26.07.2017, 14:56
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

from the FlowCell Wikipedia page:



"There is a lack of scientific understanding or patents describing how salt water can be used to produce electric energy with the efficiency and energy density that the company claims, and no independent third party measurements confirming the claims are available. The claimed performance contradicts research that has been done on flow batteries. It has been said that "there is no solid proof just yet that the QUANT e actually works and performs as advertised".
The Quantino allegedly has been using 12 kWh pr 100 km in a mixed test. This is much less than every other mainstream electric car, including smaller and lighter cars. NanoFlowcell does not comment on this.
The person claiming to have invented the fuel cell, Nunzio La Veccia, has been accused of fraud in connection with a revolutionary photovoltaic cell that was supposed to have an extremely much higher efficiency that competing cells. In a court case he explained that the prototypes had been destroyed from "security reasons" in 1999 or 2000. As of 2015, no competitor comes close to the claimed efficiency. Similar accusations were made in connection with a car that was supposed to run on photovoltaic cells with an efficiency that could not be explained by science. The car was never sold to customers.
Nunzio La Vecchia, who is also a musician and song writer, does not have any formal education in engineering or similar, and has bought a PhD title."
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:19
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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Codswallop if you think that a Conservative government wouldn't have followed America into Iraq based on the same lies. I am always bewildred that people really believe that.
hence the tongue in cheek emoticon

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Even if the sales of petrol cars is ended in 2040 there will still be tens of millions of petrol cars on the roads, and that will take another 20 or so years to gradually phase out.
that's why i suggest a ban date as well after which they cannot be used. with the ban date and consequent fall in value of the cars, this will also discourage the buying of traditional cars.
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:35
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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Wood burning stoves are bloody awful things.
No, they are great, we use it for heat and hot water, as do many people I know.

Tom
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:39
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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No, they are great, we use it for heat and hot water, as do many people I know.

Tom
My diesel car gets great mpg. It's awesome!
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:41
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

The US used to make similar grandiose promises/targets ranging from alternative energies to fuel efficiency that were routinely pushed back or ultimately scrapped.

But 2040? It's ridiculous, the impact of diesel fuels on the environment have been well documented for decades already. Politics, where good ideas go to die
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:41
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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No, they are great, we use it for heat and hot water, as do many people I know.

Tom
We even have a wood stove in our Spanish holiday house that we use for cooking on occasions.

I'm also planning to install a wood burning pizza-style oven for making pizzas and bread.

And seeing a local farmer delivers the wood by donkey cart, it's a truly carbon neutral fuel.
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:45
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

Isn't it funny that this announcement comes one day after BMW announced to make the new all-electric Mini in the UK?
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Old 26.07.2017, 15:54
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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It's ridiculous, the impact of wood burning on the environment have been well documented for decades already. Politics, where good ideas go to die
FTFY

Even the BBC and Grauniad mentioned wood burning stove pollution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure diesel and petrol cars pollute as claimed.
They are merely the current villains and politically easy to target, unlike taking away someone's wood burning stove.

Especially when said wood burners belong to older, well off voters with 2 homes (amogles) and several vehicles with internal combustion engines (st2lemans).

If we really wanted to fix pollution we should burn old people. Or something.
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Old 26.07.2017, 16:01
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Re: Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040

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FTFY

Even the BBC and Grauniad mentioned wood burning stove pollution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure diesel and petrol cars pollute as claimed.
They are merely the current villains and politically easy to target, unlike taking away someone's wood burning stove.

Especially when said wood burners belong to older, well off voters with 2 homes (amogles) and several vehicles with internal combustion engines (st2lemans).

If we really wanted to fix pollution we should burn old people. Or something.
You are not trying to bring reason into the climate debate, do you?

People have all made up their minds and know exactly what is wrong. Typically stuff they are jealous about like expensive cars or bigger houses... the reality looks different.

Some years ago did some researchers already calculate that owning a dog has a bigger carbon footprint than a SUV. Last weeks some Swedish university calculated a bit more and well: One baby in a western European country produces more CO2 emissions than 20 large cars...

http://www.stern.de/panorama/wissen/...y-7539938.html

It's not one item like the technology used for a car, it's our entire way of life that is unsustainable.
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