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  #181  
Old 24.08.2017, 19:48
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Yes and they proved that in the past quite effectively......


proof that they are humans and not cattle as you may think....they optimize their choices. I'm wondering why you did not pick Poland or Romania as your expatriation destination?
More like proof that making welfare available to bogus asylum seekers or migrants with no skills , no language and no desire to integrate is a recipe for violence and misery in both the accepting and receiving community.

I had a job in CH before I came here - simples.
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  #182  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:11
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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More like proof that making welfare available to bogus asylum seekers or migrants with no skills , no language and no desire to integrate is a recipe for violence and misery in both the accepting and receiving community.

I had a job in CH before I came here - simples.
The majority of European jihadists were born here, and if we're talking first generation North Africans they were anything but workshy.
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  #183  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:16
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Are you perhaps hinting at the fact, that the reason people run is for salary improvement?

Or having a salary at all, to start with?

Should countries be free to determine who they will in fact pay the salary?

Loads of migrants left HU, POL and CZ after they realized there is no free lunch. They wanted to go to GER and UK.

I was just going through some stats on CZ gov closing the language integration programs, last module had 3 applicants. Lol. Those programs are expensive and we can use the cash in edu where it is wanted and needed.
I think people go to places where they could have a future (economy wise, job wise, education wise etc...) and where their rights will be protected. Unfortunately HU, POL, CZ are recent democracies that suffered many years from communism and where tolerance (both now and historically) is less "obvious".

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More like proof that making welfare available to bogus asylum seekers or migrants with no skills , no language and no desire to integrate is a recipe for violence and misery in both the accepting and receiving community.

I had a job in CH before I came here - simples.
Funny you say that. I'm providing translation and teaching support to asylum seekers in Switzerland as volunteer. You'll be surprised to see how many of them have actually received a high education and degree. I'm amazed by their strong will to learn and get a better life and to start from scratch a new life. I know many "western europe immigrants" who after 5 years don't speak a single word in French or German. So your approximate description of asylum seekers with no skills no language no desire to integrate does not survive the confrontation with reality on the ground. I don't exclude that you'll always find the example here and there in the media of an asylum seeker who fits your description. But honestly it's a minority of what I had the opportunity to see.
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  #184  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:21
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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The majority of European jihadists were born here, and if we're talking first generation North Africans they were anything but workshy.
Majority of middle eastern jihadists where born in the middle east. Do you think that there may be something there that links the two?
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Old 24.08.2017, 20:21
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Funny you say that. I'm providing translation and teaching support to asylum seekers in Switzerland as volunteer. You'll be surprised to see how many of them have actually received a high education and degree. I'm amazed by their strong will to learn and get a better life and to start from scratch a new life. I know many "western europe immigrants" who after 5 years don't speak a single word in French or German... .
Just out of curiosity, do you provide volunteer translation and teaching support to the Western Europe immigrants as well?
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  #186  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:26
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Just out of curiosity, do you provide volunteer translation and teaching support to the Western Europe immigrants as well?
I'm volunteer in an NGO which provides support to asylum seekers not legal immigrants. My audience is mainly from Syria and Iraq.
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  #187  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:31
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

This thread explains some of the issues surrounding salafism in Catalonia.

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/stat...08868538335236

"Excerpts from the 2007 cable describe a disaffected, male & unmarried Muslim population, unable to practice their religion with dignity"
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  #188  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:36
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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This thread explains some of the issues surrounding salafism in Catalonia.

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/stat...08868538335236

"Excerpts from the 2007 cable describe a disaffected, male & unmarried Muslim population, unable to practice their religion with dignity"
what is exactly salafism?
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  #189  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:41
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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This thread explains some of the issues surrounding salafism in Catalonia.

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/stat...08868538335236

"Excerpts from the 2007 cable describe a disaffected, male & unmarried Muslim population, unable to practice their religion with dignity"
Whew! - it's a good thing that it's not the disaffected single young males who are arriving in droves:

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  #190  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:50
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Whew! - it's a good thing that it's not the disaffected single young males who are arriving in droves:

What are you talking about...those are pilgrims passionately looking for true democracy. Their new faith.
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  #191  
Old 24.08.2017, 20:56
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I'm volunteer in an NGO which provides support to asylum seekers not legal immigrants. My audience is mainly from Syria and Iraq.
Do you know of any NGOs which provide volunteer support to legal immigrants? Or even Swiss citizens?
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  #192  
Old 24.08.2017, 21:04
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Do you know of any NGOs which provide volunteer support to legal immigrants? Or even Swiss citizens?
not sure where you're heading to....but I think Caritas and Swiss Red Cross provide language support for immigrants and Swiss citizens. Does this satisfy your curiosity?
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  #193  
Old 24.08.2017, 21:13
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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The majority of European jihadists were born here, and if we're talking first generation North Africans they were anything but workshy.
Not the case in Barcelona , nor Bataclan nor Nice but let's see you provide sources for your statement.
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  #194  
Old 24.08.2017, 21:26
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I think people go to places where they could have a future (economy wise, job wise, education wise etc...) and where their rights will be protected.
What rights ?? The "right" to welfare ? There is no such thing as the right to a job - as the countless "How do I get a job in Switzerland" threads demonstrate.
The experience of North Africans especially in Western Europe over generations in France (and even little Switzerland) have demonstrated the failure of those populations to work harder than the natives , commit less crime than the natives and simply get on with it. Why should the receiving countries possibly receive them ?? Consider the incredible damage done via disproportionate levels of violence , rape & unemployment.


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Unfortunately HU, POL, CZ are recent democracies that suffered many years from communism and where tolerance (both now and historically) is less "obvious".
Those people recognize that any wealth their society might come to possess has to be built the very hard way and so are less inclined to throw it away. Compare the level of violence , terrorism brought about by Ukrainian migrants to Poland compared to North Africans & Middle Easterners to Western Europe.


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Funny you say that. I'm providing translation and teaching support to asylum seekers in Switzerland as volunteer. You'll be surprised to see how many of them have actually received a high education and degree. I'm amazed by their strong will to learn and get a better life and to start from scratch a new life.
They certainly seem to top the charts in immigrant criminality - are you saying that's evidence of their desire to learn and get a better life ??

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I know many "western europe immigrants" who after 5 years don't speak a single word in French or German. So your approximate description of asylum seekers with no skills no language no desire to integrate does not survive the confrontation with reality on the ground. I don't exclude that you'll always find the example here and there in the media of an asylum seeker who fits your description. But honestly it's a minority of what I had the opportunity to see.
Of course it's a minority - it absolutely HAS to be - otherwise society would simply collapse in on itself - if the criminal element of society were even close to 5% the place would resemble places like South Africa with ridiculous rape rates... do you have any conception of the how many people have to work their tits off to pay taxes to keep one person in jail for a year ????
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  #195  
Old 24.08.2017, 21:33
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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not sure where you're heading to....but I think Caritas and Swiss Red Cross provide language support for immigrants and Swiss citizens. Does this satisfy your curiosity?
Thanks, I looked on their sites but couldn't find any language support for legal immigrants or Swiss citizens. Caritas does a foodstamp - like program for people on social benefits (along with other programs for poverty-stricken people), and Red Cross CH offers a free language course, but only for refugees.

It's curious that there are so many free integration/language/job training/ job coaching opportunities available for refugees and asylum seekers, and none or near none for legal immigrants or Swiss citizens. And despite all that, it doesn't seem to be much help:

"Statistics show that just under half of recognised refugees and a quarter of those temporarily admitted to the country have a job after 10 years spent in Switzerland, with the rest reliant on social aid money. Canton Graubünden has had the most success with training refugees and asylum seekers for the workforce, with more than 40% integrated into the job market after seven years in large part due to its job coaching programme."

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/workforc...ining/42839728
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  #196  
Old 24.08.2017, 21:54
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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What rights ?? The "right" to welfare ? There is no such thing as the right to a job - as the countless "How do I get a job in Switzerland" threads demonstrate.
their rights like in "human rights": live safely without suffering from physical violence or discrimination.

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The experience of North Africans especially in Western Europe over generations in France (and even little Switzerland) have demonstrated the failure of those populations to work harder than the natives , commit less crime than the natives and simply get on with it. Why should the receiving countries possibly receive them ?? Consider the incredible damage done via disproportionate levels of violence , rape & unemployment.
Failure to work harder than the native? I must laugh here. I think you don't know enough about North African immigration history in France. In the 60's-80's, France's infrastructure was built by those "lazy" North Africans. They contributed also with their lives in liberating France from Germans during WWII while most french people were collaborating with Nazis under Vichy government.

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(...)

They certainly seem to top the charts in immigrant criminality - are you saying that's evidence of their desire to learn and get a better life ??

Of course it's a minority - it absolutely HAS to be - otherwise society would simply collapse in on itself - if the criminal element of society were even close to 5% the place would resemble places like South Africa with ridiculous rape rates... do you have any conception of the how many people have to work their tits off to pay taxes to keep one person in jail for a year ????
You use "immigrants" and "asylum seeker" indifferently showing that you put all those "brownies" in the same box that needs to be discarded by any means.
If you read again what I wrote, you'll understand that I was speaking about Asylum Seeker and not "legal immigrants".
I fear that angst, anger you have towards those "brownies" kind of distorts your judgement. Just take a minute and think about a 30years old afghan refugee who has only seen imported war & violence during his life (first the russians and then the americans).
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Old 24.08.2017, 22:12
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Their rights like in "human rights": live safely without suffering from physical violence or discrimination.
Strange that these lovely chaps who just want ''human rights'' don't seem to have any desire to grant the same rights to their fellow refugees who aren't Muslim.

'In Germany's refugee housing, both the migrants and the security personal are mostly Muslim.
According to survey, an overwhelming majority (88 percent) said they have been targeted by other migrants because of their religion.'

Source
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  #198  
Old 24.08.2017, 22:18
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Strange that these lovely chaps who just want ''human rights'' don't seem to have any desire to grant the same rights to their fellow refugees who aren't Muslim.
yes that must sound very familiar to your brothers who fight for white supremacy and christian domination.
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Old 24.08.2017, 22:22
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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their rights like in "human rights": live safely without suffering from physical violence or discrimination.



Failure to work harder than the native? I must laugh here. I think you don't know enough about North African immigration history in France. In the 60's-80's, France's infrastructure was built by those "lazy" North Africans. They contributed also with their lives in liberating France from Germans during WWII while most french people were collaborating with Nazis under Vichy government.



You use "immigrants" and "asylum seeker" indifferently showing that you put all those "brownies" in the same box that needs to be discarded by any means.
If you read again what I wrote, you'll understand that I was speaking about Asylum Seeker and not "legal immigrants".
I fear that angst, anger you have towards those "brownies" kind of distorts your judgement. Just take a minute and think about a 30years old afghan refugee who has only seen imported war & violence during his life (first the russians and then the americans).
I totally get it. Imagine sending this person to a country which has only seen imported violence by Swedes, Austrians, Germans, Americans and Russians. And that would want to call the shots for once, on other potentially imported violence. Since that's the democracy they fought for for centuries, they do not take it for granted. Human help is one thing, imposing measures justified by one sided definition of humanity while giving no choice, discredits it. People turn away from some countries not because of lack of democracy, but because the salary is tiny while peace, safety and spiritual development amounts to a lot. Maybe those are the things that are less appreciated by nomads, than salaries?

We take our democracy here for granted, me thinks sometimes. Just to be able to share opposing views is a luxury that does not get tolerated for long, elsewhere.
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Old 24.08.2017, 22:24
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Just take a minute and think about a 30years old afghan refugee who has only seen imported war & violence during his life (first the russians and then the americans).
He'd probably be very desensitized to violence and pissed off at the both the West and at Russia.
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