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  #61  
Old 18.08.2017, 13:59
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Blue Angel, this confuses me. Perhaps she was meant to have gone to that concert? Perhaps she has friends / family in other countries who only know she lives "near" Manchester? There could be a number of reasons for her updating her status to safe. Maybe ask her, instead of harboring the rage?
I'm a bit confused by this too. What's wrong with her marking herself as safe? 20 miles is not far at all and there is a chance she could have been there, isn't there? If I lived very near to a place where there's a terrorist attack and I normally spend a lot of time in that place, I would probably do the same (if I were superactive on FB). When 9/11 happened, I was in the US, though nowhere near New York, in fact I was hundreds of miles away. Yet people at home didn't know where I was exactly and I sure got quite a few emails that inquired about my safety and whereabouts (needless to say that was pre-FB and pre-smartphone, hence more challenging)

Anyway, not part of the discussion I guess.
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  #62  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:07
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I'm implying that this morning the difference between the ideology of Islam and the ideology of fascism doesn't seem as great as I'd previously thought.
Perhaps Europe should consider reducing immigration from Islamic countries?
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  #63  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:11
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Perhaps Europe should consider reducing immigration from Islamic countries?
By the same logic then also white Americans?
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  #64  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:16
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Loz, a Neo Nazi/far right movement is classed as a hate group and that's why they are often being categorically shut down... the Muslim religion (whatever you think of the tenents of their faith) is not.
My point wasn't really to equate Islam with fascism, although I've long held the belief that jihadists are no different from fascists. My point was rather this:

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Same, except I've had a similar opinion for a while now. The point for me is that it MUST be allowed to say some of this without bring called a Nazi. I'm as socially liberal as they come, but this incessant PC crap, closing one's eyes and pretending we're all one big happy family is annoying me to no end.
What people will go to not to say or do anything after a Jihadi attack, and then the very same people will shill against racist nationalists at every opportunity they get.

Just seen this on Twitter and will shamelessly steal it. One picture serves as propaganda, the other not. One is encouraged to be broadcast and appeared on front pages across the globe, the other will be prohibited.

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  #65  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:17
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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By the same logic then also white Americans?
If we're talking about in proportion to the number of terrorist attacks committed on European soil by white Americans in comparison to other groups then that seems logical. Good post!
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  #66  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:18
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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By the same logic then also white Americans?
whats great about it too is not only are the right wing nutters in america the same as the Islamic extremists, but they even killed their person by running her over in a vehicle. its like EXACTLY the same.
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Old 18.08.2017, 14:19
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Horrible things happen every day in different parts of the world, the flag waving thing and all that collective and selective sympathy many people want to subscribe to, are (to me) mostly futile. If it happens in Kandahar we don't even notice.
What makes you think that recent events Barcelona are a big thing in Kandahar ??
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  #68  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:21
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Why is Spain a target? They don't bomb ISIS, do they?
Well, there was this one time...

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  #69  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:22
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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By the same logic then also white Americans?
See this is exactly the problem I mentioned earlier.

Clearly, there is a degree of islamic radicalization in Western countries, though I disagree it's necessarily a direct consequence of (recent) immigration given the attackers are more often than not born in the (Western) country or have been there for long periods of time. So what's the root cause of this then? It must be SOMETHING, given this is a relatively recent development (again, islamic attacks in the Western world, not islamic terrorism in general). Could it be recent immigrants that target certain parts of the population and radicalize them? Is it failed integration, now or in earlier years?

And what's the alternative? Chill back and pretend it's all good? That there is no problem? That this is apparently now a new reality and we just have to blindly accept it and do nothing? History shows us that this is never a good approach. Do you want to upset a few to "save" the many, or do you want to upset many by protecting a few? It's a tough choice for sure.


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Just seen this on Twitter and will shamelessly steal it. One picture serves as propaganda, the other not. One is encouraged to be broadcast and appeared on front pages across the globe, the other will be prohibited.
People see what they want to see. Few are able to argue even one, let alone both sides in a rational, objective way (and just to be clear, I'm in no way saying I have that ability). Granted, humans are not rational, never have been, never will be. The above with the pictures is a good illustration and I'm with you on this.

Every time someone says: "this is a problem", it's either the Nazi card or the "how about [insert extremist incident from the other end of the spectrum]". I'm sick of it. Yes I said it.

This isn't a discussion about white supremacists in the US. That doesn't even deserve a discussion as it is unacceptable and horrifying. This is a discussion about islamic terrorism in Europe, and trying to find out why this keeps happening and how it can be prevented in the future. Or does anyone really want this to keep happening? I sure as hell know I don't.

Last edited by Samaire13; 18.08.2017 at 14:36.
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  #70  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:36
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Harsh? I think it's pretty clear what I meant. Islam is in my view by far the most invasive and aggressive religion we have in the world today.
I disagree. None of the religions really are worse than the others, neither in the past or today... some examples:
- Christianity: Christian militias have been destroying pretty much all Mosques in the central African republic and lynched Muslims in the streets.
- Jews: In the early 80s were there some 20k "settlers" in the west bank squatting Arab land illegally. The number is today somewhere between 2-300k and they are more radical and violent than ever...
- Islam: Well, we all know the examples...
- Buddhism: Radical Buddhists in Myanmar are killing entire villages of Muslim Rohynga. How you can possibly misinterpret the teachings of Buddha into something that justifies violence - the exact opposite of the texts - is completely beyond me.

A very long story very short: I do not see any qualitative difference, all major religions have some misguided idiots. There is a quantitative difference as there simply are more Muslims in the world than most other religions and those Muslims tend to live in the parts of the world which are politically unstable. Claiming the instability on their faith is a regular cheap shot, I personally dont think that having a corrupt government has anything to do with Islam, you find it equally in poorer Christian countries.

Lastly: We tend to hear more about Islamism as it is a topic that is used by political powers in our countries to push their political agendas. Nobody here cares what some radical Christians do in poor parts of Africa or some buddhists in Burma.
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  #71  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:39
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Lastly: We tend to hear more about Islamism as it is a topic that is used by political powers in our countries to push their political agendas.
Yeah, that and the fact that they are mowing people down in our cities
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  #72  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:41
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I disagree. None of the religions really are worse than the others, neither in the past or today... some examples:
- Christianity: Christian militias have been destroying pretty much all Mosques in the central African republic and lynched Muslims in the streets.
- Jews: In the early 80s were there some 20k "settlers" in the west bank squatting Arab land illegally. The number is today somewhere between 2-300k and they are more radical and violent than ever...
- Islam: Well, we all know the examples...
- Buddhism: Radical Buddhists in Myanmar are killing entire villages of Muslim Rohynga. How you can possibly misinterpret the teachings of Buddha into something that justifies violence - the exact opposite of the texts - is completely beyond me.

A very long story very short: I do not see any qualitative difference, all major religions have some misguided idiots. There is a quantitative difference as there simply are more Muslims in the world than most other religions and those Muslims tend to live in the parts of the world which are politically unstable. Claiming the instability on their faith is a regular cheap shot, I personally dont think that having a corrupt government has anything to do with Islam, you find it equally in poorer Christian countries.

Lastly: We tend to hear more about Islamism as it is a topic that is used by political powers in our countries to push their political agendas. Nobody here cares what some radical Christians do in poor parts of Africa or some buddhists in Burma.
Just proves my view that all religions should be banned.
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  #73  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:41
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Lastly: We tend to hear more about Islamism as it is a topic that is used by political powers in our countries to push their political agendas. Nobody here cares what some radical Christians do in poor parts of Africa or some buddhists in Burma.
No, that's mainly because we are not in Africa or Burma. I haven't seen radical buddhists attack and kill people in London, Paris, Barcelona, wherever, neither have I seen radical Christians doing the same lately.

I agree with the rest in that no religion is better - for all I care, they can eliminate literally ALL of them. Aside from the thirst for power (and by extension money), it is the single biggest threat to humankind overall. My 2 cents.

Regardless, at this present time, the only real threat to Europe or maybe the Western world in general is radical Islam. Not radical Christianity, not radical Buddhism, not radical Judaism. Simple as that.
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Old 18.08.2017, 14:44
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

What a terrible act, unfortunately we all know the Country's retaliation will be severe.
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Old 18.08.2017, 14:46
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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What a terrible act, unfortunately we all know the Country's retaliation will be severe.
longer siesta? fight a bull?
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  #76  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:46
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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What a terrible act, unfortunately we all know the Country's retaliation will be severe.
Do we? I don't.

What's this mean exactly?
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Old 18.08.2017, 14:47
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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By the same logic then also white Americans?
Switzrland is a reasonable country.

No statue of General Lee has been torn down for, oh, well over 100 years.
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Old 18.08.2017, 14:47
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Do we? I don't.

What's this mean exactly?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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  #79  
Old 18.08.2017, 14:50
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Just proves my view that all religions should be banned.
I don't think that would have much positive effect overall, there are more than enough alternative -isms to kill for.
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Old 18.08.2017, 14:51
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I disagree. None of the religions really are worse than the others, neither in the past or today... some examples:
- Christianity: Christian militias have been destroying pretty much all Mosques in the central African republic and lynched Muslims in the streets.
- Jews: In the early 80s were there some 20k "settlers" in the west bank squatting Arab land illegally. The number is today somewhere between 2-300k and they are more radical and violent than ever...
- Islam: Well, we all know the examples...
- Buddhism: Radical Buddhists in Myanmar are killing entire villages of Muslim Rohynga. How you can possibly misinterpret the teachings of Buddha into something that justifies violence - the exact opposite of the texts - is completely beyond me.

A very long story very short: I do not see any qualitative difference, all major religions have some misguided idiots. There is a quantitative difference as there simply are more Muslims in the world than most other religions and those Muslims tend to live in the parts of the world which are politically unstable. Claiming the instability on their faith is a regular cheap shot, I personally dont think that having a corrupt government has anything to do with Islam, you find it equally in poorer Christian countries.

Lastly: We tend to hear more about Islamism as it is a topic that is used by political powers in our countries to push their political agendas. Nobody here cares what some radical Christians do in poor parts of Africa or some buddhists in Burma.
You are entitled to your opinion, and I am more than happy to agree to disagree rather than waste time trying to convince each other.
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