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Old 24.08.2017, 15:05
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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... is that the latter is far more inclined to use homegrown kids that have been radicalised. If you ignore that, you're taking your eye off the ball massively.
These homegrown kids that have been 'radicalized' and turned into terrorists- have they had anything in common? Were they demographically representative of the average citizen in the areas attacked?

If only there were some connection, some thread, to explain how these normal, run of the mill kids could possibly justify committing heinous acts of terror against their own fellow neighbors...

Last edited by pilatus1; 24.08.2017 at 15:17.
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Old 24.08.2017, 15:11
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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These homegrown kids that have been 'radicalized' and turned into terrorists- have they had anything in common? Were they demographically representative of the average citizen in the areas attacked?

If only there were some connection, some thread, to connect how these normal, run of the mill kids could possibly justify committing heinous acts of terror against their own fellow neighbors...
That connection had a good laywer.

Something that policy makers do not count on, perhaps. Or funds that pour in from elsewhere. Oh wait, there is one politician that seem to say it but people are happily distracted by his fake tan instead.
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Old 24.08.2017, 15:24
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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That connection had a good laywer.

Something that policy makers do not count on, perhaps. Or funds that pour in from elsewhere. Oh wait, there is one politician that seem to say it but people are happily distracted by his fake tan instead.
And those who use their brains realise that he only mentions problems but never comes up with how to realise them, and how to pay for them.

His offered solutions are simplified unrealistic rubbish however he is the only one in the parlement speaking out openly about these problems and naming them as they are so support is huge, and in disregard of what many think his support goes way above only the poor/low educated groups.

I know a bunch of people who support what he says but don't vote for him since he lacks solutions, and he is missing a good realistic overal political agenda. If he would come up with a good overal financial program, and wel calculated realistic solutions i'd not be surprised if he would be the next prime-minister.
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Old 24.08.2017, 15:26
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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these thread are great at exposing bigots and racists
Also quite saddened at how many try to justify and make excuses to the butchery that's occurred in Europe and to these innocent civilians (a bi weekly occurrence now?). Really, pathetic trying to shift blame everywhere except where it rightfully belongs.

Last edited by Lex; 24.08.2017 at 15:32. Reason: spelling
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Old 24.08.2017, 15:33
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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these thread are great at exposing bigots and racists
The word racist became a meaningless term due to the constant disabuse of it by a lot of people.

Also foreigners, Moroccans, islamists etc.. ain't races.
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Old 24.08.2017, 16:03
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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And those who use their brains realise that he only mentions problems but never comes up with how to realise them, and how to pay for them.

His offered solutions are simplified unrealistic rubbish however he is the only one in the parlement speaking out openly about these problems and naming them as they are so support is huge, and in disregard of what many think his support goes way above only the poor/low educated groups.

I know a bunch of people who support what he says but don't vote for him since he lacks solutions, and he is missing a good realistic overal political agenda. If he would come up with a good overal financial program, and wel calculated realistic solutions i'd not be surprised if he would be the next prime-minister.
You cannot offer solutions to a mob that does not let you name the problems. Why? Because they do not want it. They want power and go for those who promise it. If naming the problems translates to having to work on it, they will never want to name the problems nor solutions or working on it.
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Old 24.08.2017, 16:04
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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If that was true then Poland who didn't allow any/many Islamic refugees would be having a massive issue with Islamic terrorism now wouldn't it ?
It takes a single person to commit a terrorist attack. Poland could take in a million refugees and not have a single incident, or they could let in none and then someone flies in from Luton, rents a car and ploughs into a bus stop during rush hour (and they may not even look like a Muslim or have a Muslim name).

The paradigm has shifted, but your thinking still seems to be rooted in the past.
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Old 24.08.2017, 16:11
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Also quite saddened at how many try to justify and make excuses to the butchery that's occurred in Europe and to these innocent civilians (a bi weekly occurrence now?). Really, pathetic trying to shift blame everywhere except where it rightfully belongs.
So who is trying to shift the blame? I've not seen anyone on here trying to blame anyone apart from ISIS extremists or trying to make any excuses for their actions

Just that most of us are not going to blame all muslims for the actions of a few.
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Old 24.08.2017, 16:12
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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You cannot offer solutions to a mob that does not let you name the problems. Why? Because they do not want it.
He is also not offering solutions to those who support him.

I admit that i like a lot of what he says, he is naming problems as they are, but i cannot vote for him since he completely lacks realistic and financially responsible solutions.

Simple example, Holland needed more nurses some years ago estimated to be an amount of 30.000, he was the only politician who said "I will give you these nurses, i will fly them in for you from where-ever it is needed" to questions on how to pay for such he only responded with things like "Don't worry, we fix that" and answers of equal simplicity, a financial calculation never came and the question remains unanswered up to today.

Last edited by EdwinNL; 24.08.2017 at 16:39.
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Old 24.08.2017, 16:14
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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These homegrown kids that have been 'radicalized' and turned into terrorists- have they had anything in common? Were they demographically representative of the average citizen in the areas attacked?
If you look at the Manchester or London attacks they weren't so far off. Plenty of muslims in the concert and around Borough Market.
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  #171  
Old 24.08.2017, 16:21
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Just that most of us are not going to blame all muslims for the actions of a few.
To acknowledge that the common factor behind al of these attacks is the Islam, does not equal holding every believer of this religion responsible to me.

To say that the western world has a problem which originates from the Islam is simply stating a fact, stating that the opposing sounds according to these attacks within the islamic communities on average is lower compared to more traditional western communities/societies is simply a fact. However a big bunch of people immediately have an automatic reflex that they need to point at me and call me fascist, racist or whatever stupidity they can come up with.
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Old 24.08.2017, 16:40
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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These homegrown kids that have been 'radicalized' and turned into terrorists- have they had anything in common? Were they demographically representative of the average citizen in the areas attacked?
As I've said many times on this forum, the one and only Muslim that I'm aquainted with who gives me the heebeegeebees, is a white, British convert whose parents were born again Christians. He rebelled against his parents by becoming a Muslim.

Generalisations are the antithesis of intelligence.

A parallel would be to imply that all Christians of Irish ancestry were responsible, or suspects, for the IRA bombings.
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  #173  
Old 24.08.2017, 17:04
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

I don't really join in these "My opinion is better than your opinion" threads with their associated name calling.

But, you know, I don't think the folk we have in our relatively moderate debates are particularly racist or xenaphobic. Perhaps a little hysterical or over-reacting to something over which they have no control - much like media and government responses.

Me, I'd probably get accused of being too laissez faire. People die. Terrorism is just another was to accomplish that. It's not nice, but it's just a way of life. Meh. Get over it.

I can't say either position is right or wrong. Somewhere in the middle, a cautious pragmatism maybe, is probably the right way in the long run. Tarring a billion people with one brush, not so much.
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Old 24.08.2017, 17:36
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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It takes a single person to commit a terrorist attack. Poland could take in a million refugees and not have a single incident, or they could let in none and then someone flies in from Luton, rents a car and ploughs into a bus stop during rush hour (and they may not even look like a Muslim or have a Muslim name).

The paradigm has shifted, but your thinking still seems to be rooted in the past.
What would happen if there were no anti-terror police in use then?
But in reality there have been no terror attacks yet in Poland, maybe because nobody really cares about Poland thus it is not a high-profile target, but maybe also because some of the attacks so far needed a support network, which is obviously missing in Poland.
I think there is a much bigger benefit to Poland than the lack of attacks: secret police usage has its cost to the society and governance. I'm afraid that the more efficient a country deals with the terrorist threats, the more ugly things are done by the anti terrorist forces without public control of it; there is a crack down on civil liberties and laws are suspended - as in France currently.
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Old 24.08.2017, 18:02
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

I don't think the common factor is Islam, but rather disaffected young men.
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Old 24.08.2017, 18:11
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I don't think the common factor is Islam, but rather disaffected young men.
How about both?

It is a safe space here, you can say it.
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Old 24.08.2017, 19:16
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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What would happen if there were no anti-terror police in use then?
But in reality there have been no terror attacks yet in Poland, maybe because nobody really cares about Poland thus it is not a high-profile target, but maybe also because some of the attacks so far needed a support network, which is obviously missing in Poland.
I think there is a much bigger benefit to Poland than the lack of attacks: secret police usage has its cost to the society and governance. I'm afraid that the more efficient a country deals with the terrorist threats, the more ugly things are done by the anti terrorist forces without public control of it; there is a crack down on civil liberties and laws are suspended - as in France currently.
Nah Poles are a lot poorer than Western Europeans - their tolerance for a bunch of lads sitting on their holes , claiming welfare and reading a daft book is zero - the first sign of trouble and they'd (wisely) be chucking them out.
The hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who moved there knew that it was no welfare ,low pay , hard work and a shit load of it but they accepted it. We have seen that our Middle Eastern and African friends did not rather absconding from such countries to more welfare friendly wealthier neighbours wherever and whenever they could.
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Old 24.08.2017, 19:24
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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Nah Poles are a lot poorer than Western Europeans - their tolerance for a bunch of lads sitting on their holes , claiming welfare and reading a daft book is zero - the first sign of trouble and they'd (wisely) be chucking them out.
.
Yes and they proved that in the past quite effectively......

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The hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who moved there knew that it was no welfare ,low pay , hard work and a shit load of it but they accepted it. We have seen that our Middle Eastern and African friends did not rather absconding from such countries to more welfare friendly wealthier neighbours wherever and whenever they could.
proof that they are humans and not cattle as you may think....they optimize their choices. I'm wondering why you did not pick Poland or Romania as your expatriation destination?
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Old 24.08.2017, 19:29
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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I don't really join in these "My opinion is better than your opinion" threads with their associated name calling.

But, you know, I don't think the folk we have in our relatively moderate debates are particularly racist or xenaphobic. Perhaps a little hysterical or over-reacting to something over which they have no control - much like media and government responses.

Me, I'd probably get accused of being too laissez faire. People die. Terrorism is just another was to accomplish that. It's not nice, but it's just a way of life. Meh. Get over it.

I can't say either position is right or wrong. Somewhere in the middle, a cautious pragmatism maybe, is probably the right way in the long run. Tarring a billion people with one brush, not so much.
Liar....everybody has an opinion. On everything.
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  #180  
Old 24.08.2017, 19:47
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Re: Barcelona: Van rams into crowd

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proof that they are humans and not cattle as you may think....they optimize their choices. I'm wondering why you did not pick Poland or Romania as your expatriation destination?
Are you perhaps hinting at the fact, that the reason people run is for salary improvement?

Or having a salary at all, to start with?

Should countries be free to determine who they will in fact pay the salary?

Loads of migrants left HU, POL and CZ after they realized there is no free lunch. They wanted to go to GER and UK.

I was just going through some stats on CZ gov closing the language integration programs, last module had 3 applicants. Lol. Those programs are expensive and we can use the cash in edu where it is wanted and needed.
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