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  #181  
Old 02.10.2017, 09:46
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

is a peaceful separation ever possible anywhere in the world?
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  #182  
Old 02.10.2017, 09:56
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Have you seen so many images?
Looking carefully, many are about that guy fighting with robocopo, he has a purple/crimson colour hoodie jumper.
Since it's taken from numerous angle, it gives the impression that there's numerous battles while in fact, all these pictures are about a very single quick event!

What do you expect, there are millions of idiots spoon fed by media, everybody is happy with the situation, why would it ever change?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719

Catalan medical officials said 844 people had been hurt in clashes, including 33 police. The majority had minor injuries or had suffered from anxiety attacks.

So, not exactly peaceful was it? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41460037



Last edited by Sbrinz; 02.10.2017 at 10:11.
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  #183  
Old 02.10.2017, 09:59
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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is a peaceful separation ever possible anywhere in the world?
Czechoslovakia, 1993
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  #184  
Old 02.10.2017, 10:22
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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is a peaceful separation ever possible anywhere in the world?
Many former colonies that became independent after WW2 did so in a peaceful process.
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  #185  
Old 02.10.2017, 10:41
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Czechoslovakia, 1993
so the key is that both sides should want the seperation
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  #186  
Old 02.10.2017, 10:45
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Many former colonies that became independent after WW2 did so in a peaceful process.
that is something entirely different actually as in order for US to take a dominant global role decolonization had to happen. Considering the financial need of France and UK, they didn't have much choice but to accept.
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Old 02.10.2017, 11:26
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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that is something entirely different actually as in order for US to take a dominant global role decolonization had to happen. Considering the financial need of France and UK, they didn't have much choice but to accept.
Irrelevant to the question, you provided no such restriction.
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  #188  
Old 02.10.2017, 11:50
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Please, do understand that Polish right is completely not Germany's nationalist AFD, who is extolling Wehrmacht in WWII. You cannot at all equal a conservative party of a country which didn't create gas chambers with a reactionary party of a country which did, because such a party in Germany has to come to terms with their past - and either it rejects it, or remains silent, or, well, white-washes it, as in case of a leader of AFD. And now like-thinkers in other parties might rear their ugly head and say what what unthinkable before.
How can the AfD be compared to Nazis if two of its most prominent figures are a black guy born in Africa and a lesbian woman?
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  #189  
Old 02.10.2017, 11:55
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

The first thing that came into my mind with the images of this brutality in Catalonia is when European journalists and politician criticize and mock the USA because of the Second Amendment ...
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  #190  
Old 02.10.2017, 11:57
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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How can the AfD be compared to Nazis if two of its most prominent figures are a black guy born in Africa and a lesbian woman?
Why should people use their ethnicity or sexual orientation to hide their true political tendencies?
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  #191  
Old 02.10.2017, 11:57
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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The first thing that came into my mind with the images of this brutality in Catalonia is when European journalists and politician criticize and mock the USA because of the Second Amendment ...
You mean the demonstrators should be shooting the police? Not sure that would have helped.

Thinking about it, the 2nd amentment doesn't seem to stop the US police shooting people either.
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  #192  
Old 02.10.2017, 12:11
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Irrelevant to the question, you provided no such restriction.
ok, my bad.
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  #193  
Old 02.10.2017, 12:29
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

The EU speaks:

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/st...95139197018114
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release...17-3626_en.htm

Shocked.
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  #194  
Old 02.10.2017, 13:04
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

I never thought that being vindicated would make me feel so sick.
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Old 02.10.2017, 13:24
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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I never thought that being vindicated would make me feel so sick.
If it helps, the UK's buffoon of a foreign minister was equally spineless in his statement.
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  #196  
Old 02.10.2017, 13:25
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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You mean the demonstrators should be shooting the police? Not sure that would have helped.

Thinking about it, the 2nd amentment doesn't seem to stop the US police shooting people either.
Of course they shouldn't be shooting the police. The police arrived and brutally assaulted them because it had no fear of retaliation.
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Old 02.10.2017, 13:49
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Old 02.10.2017, 16:14
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

As stated several times: The voting was illegal. So what's with the fear?
They could have let them vote, what ever the outcome, it would not have been legally valid. Story over.

The outcome could have given a clearer picture about the opinion of the Catalan and could have been a basis for analysis of an ongoing dispute. And the Spanish could have gotten all these information "for free", not having to admit/allow/give into anything.
Chance missed.

But for a fact: A government that orders part of it's populace to be attacked, physically threatened and stopped from going places is a poor government which should be dissolved. Immediately!
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  #199  
Old 02.10.2017, 16:24
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

On of the things I do not like of my country(TR) is that the state thinks that the people exist only to serve the state. I liked Europe because of the opposite. The state is there to serve people or at least it is mutual.

What happened last weekend in Catalonia or what happened in Germany during G20 is really concerning and I know/hope that this is not really how Europe will be in the future.
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  #200  
Old 02.10.2017, 16:42
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

I have been living in Barcelona for 6 yrs, after 5 yrs in Zurich. IMO, you are mostly right, except for the fact that Puigdemont and his party declared that if the results of the referendum is YES, then they would declare independence within 48 hours.

Additionally, his party was playing chicken with Madrid, and (again, IMO), pushing the Catalans harder and harder to create a situation that would push/provoke Madrid and the authorities into a confrontation.

Madrid did just about everything wrong and made themselves look bad to the world and to push ALL of the Catalunya residents towards secession.

Puigdemont HAS said that they would stand down IF Madrid will accept a referendum with a SET DATE. This would benefit everyone, as Madrid could use the time to educate people of the potential consequences AND set the thresholds for the referendum to be considered representative of the population of Catalunya (Unfortunately, this should have been agreed to months ago, but Madrid would not even consider it).

Right now, I do NOT believe the numbers being reported; neither the % of eligible voters who participated and certainly not that 90% of those who voted, voted Sí...

It is a mess, for sure. And now it has become even more emotional. I think Rajoy needs to resign, some members of the Guardia Civil (Franco's historical police force) need to be fired and the EU should pressure Madrid and Puigdemont/his party to return to the table.

Personally, I think the Catalan people are being used by politicos on both sides and the only upside to independence is direct access to EU money (if/when they are allowed to join) instead of sharing it with the rest of Spain. But it also adds one more relatively poor member to the EU (regardless of how rich/successful Catalunya claims to be... they want EU money!).

PS - This does NOT make me popular with my Catalan friends and most of the expats I know who live here (which is really hard for me to believe).

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As stated several times: The voting was illegal. So what's with the fear?
They could have let them vote, what ever the outcome, it would not have been legally valid. Story over.

The outcome could have given a clearer picture about the opinion of the Catalan and could have been a basis for analysis of an ongoing dispute. And the Spanish could have gotten all these information "for free", not having to admit/allow/give into anything.
Chance missed.

But for a fact: A government that orders part of it's populace to be attacked, physically threatened and stopped from going places is a poor government which should be dissolved. Immediately!
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