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  #141  
Old 29.09.2017, 11:27
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

Actually, I am thinking that, if both parties were to negotiate, I would not mind a Canadian style of referendum. Catalonia can go if they have the majority, but the counties where the "indepes" are in minority would remain in Spain.

I took a look at the results of the elections of 2015 and Catalonia is quite polarized also. I assume that any county where the three pro-independence parties had more than 45% of the votes are in favour of independence (there is an ambiguous party, in theory against the independence, with around 10% of the votes, that's why I use 45%). I know, far from any qualified majority, but I am being generous. In the rest of counties, they are in clear minority.

What what be the result then?

Spain would keep Val d'Aran (the county in the Northwest) with the best ski resort in Spain, by the way. That's no surprise because the roads to the rest of Catalonia are really bad are they are better connected to France and the rest of Spain, so even the implementation would be quite easy. They also have their own language (aranés).

All the counties in the cost from Salou to Badalona would remain in Spain. That includes Barcelona and Tarragona, the surrounding towns, Port Aventura, Montserrat and most of the industrial and more populated areas of Catalonia. Not bad for Spain.

The secessionists would get the territories where they are majority, mainly the countryside, including the nice cost and town of Gerona, which is not bad either. I would be happy to accept this trade off and that 45% of "indepes" in the last regional elections is a majority if Spain can keep the counties where people are against the independence (including their industry, cities, beaches, ski resorts...) and all this noise disappear for many years.

I wonder what the Catalan government would think about this Canadian style solution...
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  #142  
Old 29.09.2017, 11:47
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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I wonder what the Catalan government would think about this Canadian style solution...
Usually rural areas are (relatively) poor so all that Catalonian wealth would remain with Spain. Plus, the population would probably fairly small as well. In short: There's no way they would accept such a proposition.
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  #143  
Old 29.09.2017, 11:50
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Usually rural areas are (relatively) poor so all that Catalonian wealth would remain with Spain. Plus, the population would probably fairly small as well. In short: There's no way they would accept such a proposition.
Exactly.
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  #144  
Old 29.09.2017, 16:41
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

I've read somewhere they're going ahead with the referendum anyway.
As if Europe needed another drama lama..
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  #145  
Old 01.10.2017, 08:23
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

In most societies today, voter turnout is routinely only a fraction of those who can vote - today in Catalunya I suspect we will see Catalans express their opinions in tremendous numbers despite the Spanish state having gone to great efforts to suppress that - I expect to see the Catalunya I know & love

Hoping for peace & democracy to win out - Good luck today and for the future to my Catalan brothers & sisters
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  #146  
Old 01.10.2017, 10:56
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

You are only allowed to vote when the glorious State allows it. Anyone heard from the EU yet?



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  #147  
Old 01.10.2017, 10:59
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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You are only allowed to vote when the glorious State allows it. Anyone heard from the EU yet?



Anyone know why the EU is being made an example of only when things are a sh1tshow?
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  #148  
Old 01.10.2017, 11:01
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

It's as if Franco never left...

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  #149  
Old 01.10.2017, 11:04
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Anyone know why the EU is being made an example of only when things are a sh1tshow?
the EU was more enthusiastic on the Maidan square a couple of years ago
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  #150  
Old 01.10.2017, 11:04
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Anyone know why the EU is being made an example of only when things are a sh1tshow?
I forgot, the EU only comments on sovereign issues when a country doesn't follow its diktats. A la Poland.
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Old 01.10.2017, 11:10
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

Isn't that what all countries do?

Whenever they can finger-point to an "enemy", they'll happily do so, even if the same sh*t show exists in their very own places.
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  #152  
Old 01.10.2017, 11:57
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

contra-productive and politically unprofessional.
The fundamental yes-sayers will get their scandal in the media, the moderate yes-sayers are not willing to face this kind of confrontation with the police and won't bother, the no-sayers have to fear the police as well as the yes-sayers so they'll stay away too.

And the world will never know, what the majority of the Catalan really want.
What a charade.
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  #153  
Old 01.10.2017, 12:08
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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I forgot, the EU only comments on sovereign issues when a country doesn't follow its diktats. A la Poland.
No, only when a country comes close to breaking any EU rules. Somehow I don't think there's anything in the EU rules and regs about holding illegal referendums in an EU country nor anything about the Spanish constitution.

Spain has dealt with this extremely badly and no matter what the outcome today it will only fuel more Catalan resentment. The Catalan goverment is also being pretty stupid since no other countries in the world will recognise them as being separate from Spain so how they expect to get any "independent" business done I don't know. The UK is having enough trouble sorting things out with the EU and the rest of the world and we actually did it legally.
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  #154  
Old 01.10.2017, 12:10
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

Masked police now seizing ballot boxes.

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  #155  
Old 01.10.2017, 12:17
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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No, only when a country comes close to breaking any EU rules. Somehow I don't think there's anything in the EU rules and regs about holding illegal referendums in an EU country nor anything about the Spanish constitution.
And what about Ukraine?

In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is how a State behaves when it is threatened with losing a good proportion of its tax revenues.
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  #156  
Old 01.10.2017, 12:26
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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And what about Ukraine?

In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is how a State behaves when it is threatened with losing a good proportion of its tax revenues.
What about Ukraine? It was never in the EU.
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  #157  
Old 01.10.2017, 13:11
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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No, only when a country comes close to breaking any EU rules. Somehow I don't think there's anything in the EU rules and regs about holding illegal referendums in an EU country nor anything about the Spanish constitution.

Spain has dealt with this extremely badly and no matter what the outcome today it will only fuel more Catalan resentment. The Catalan goverment is also being pretty stupid since no other countries in the world will recognise them as being separate from Spain so how they expect to get any "independent" business done I don't know. The UK is having enough trouble sorting things out with the EU and the rest of the world and we actually did it legally.
Agreed: terrible scenes on the news today, rubber bullets being fired, police breaking into locked polling stations. Police saying they will confiscate the illegal ballot boxes.

Calling this referendum was a stupid idea, and the police over reacting do not look at all good either.
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  #158  
Old 01.10.2017, 14:22
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Anyone know why the EU is being made an example of only when things are a sh1tshow?
I don't see how the actions of a conservative Spanish government are anything to do with the EU.
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  #159  
Old 01.10.2017, 14:48
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

Today's events will work as a catalyst for the independence movement,

Throwing woman of stairs, shooting protesters in the face with rubber bullet's, slamming old people with bats.

This seems to be the general happening in Catalonia, I'll spare you the bloody vids/pictures.

https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/s...251840/video/1
https://twitter.com/GissiSim/status/914470695110836224
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Old 01.10.2017, 14:48
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Re: Catalan independence referendum vote

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Thank you.
You may want to consider reading Noam Chomsky. Or another book about how the world realy is. Essentially it is about the kings making the rules and breaking them if they want as well. This is the world.

I wish you great luck on your journey along the self education route.

Best wishes.
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