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  #181  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:46
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Yep, and funny how okay it is for the movie men/producers to walk the red carpet and do the professional PR smiles and kisses as part & parcel of their job no matter who they hate.

Actresses, however, are two faced for doing the exact same. Tiresome load of old double standard sh!te.
Which movie men/producers have accused women of sexual harassment or worse?
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  #182  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:47
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Which movie men/producers have accused women of sexual harassment or worse?
That wasn't the point she was making...
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  #183  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:55
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

as a man its very hard to understand a womans reasoning here, we are constantly told that rape is the very very worst thing that can happen to a woman (short of murder), it screws the victim up in unimaginable ways, yet here we have a group of (once) famous women who all say they where raped, yet all then put all that disgust and distress aside to pose with the rapist. accept jobs from him, laugh and joke with him etc, negotiating a price for their silence.

This isn't victim blaming, I just can't get my head round it, they want to be in this guys films so badly they where prepared to put up with it?? its just a job ffs.
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  #184  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:03
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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as a man its very hard to understand a womans reasoning here, we are constantly told that rape is the very very worst thing that can happen to a woman (short of murder), it screws the victim up in unimaginable ways, yet here we have a group of (once) famous women who all say they where raped, yet all then put all that disgust and distress aside to pose with the rapist. accept jobs from him, laugh and joke with him etc, negotiating a price for their silence.

This isn't victim blaming, I just can't get my head round it, they want to be in this guys films so badly they where prepared to put up with it?? its just a job ffs.
Or you look at it a different way.

Actress is raped by someone who can make or break her career. She either:

A) Goes to pieces, leaves the industry, gets a job/career which in no way reminds her of the attack but in doing so allows the guy to basically de facto run the rest of her life for her by cutting her dream career off in its infancy/prime/whatever.

B) Decides to not let the incidence define the rest of her life and continues along her intended career path. The nature of which involves her coming into constant contract with her attacker, even schmoozing him at public events. She's an actress, she can act as though nothing happened, right?

She's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't. Added to that, there's the thousands of "he touched my knee" or "sent me a saucy text" claims which is muddying the whole sordid thing.
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  #185  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:09
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Or you look at it a different way.

Actress is raped by someone who can make or break her career. She either:

A) Goes to pieces, leaves the industry, gets a job/career which in no way reminds her of the attack but in doing so allows the guy to basically de facto run the rest of her life for her by cutting her dream career off in its infancy/prime/whatever.

B) Decides to not let the incidence define the rest of her life and continues along her intended career path. The nature of which involves her coming into constant contract with her attacker, even schmoozing him at public events. She's an actress, she can act as though nothing happened, right?

She's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't. Added to that, there's the thousands of "he touched my knee" or "sent me a saucy text" claims which is muddying the whole sordid thing.

Or if she has 2 brain cells to rub together she calls the police, gets him arrested, convicted and sues the arse off him. which is what any right thinking person would have done.
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  #186  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:11
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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as a man its very hard to understand a womans reasoning here, we are constantly told that rape is the very very worst thing that can happen to a woman (short of murder), it screws the victim up in unimaginable ways, yet here we have a group of (once) famous women who all say they where raped, yet all then put all that disgust and distress aside to pose with the rapist. accept jobs from him, laugh and joke with him etc, negotiating a price for their silence.

This isn't victim blaming, I just can't get my head round it, they want to be in this guys films so badly they where prepared to put up with it?? its just a job ffs.
They didn't put up with it, they ran, made excuses, got out of there.. some didn't get away from him. None I gather were expecting Weinstein to isolate them in rooms, thought assistants would be present.

Unfair to say they laughed and joked with him, how many of us have humored our boss/manager, laughed at jokes etc, while thinking this guy is a dork. No different here unless you find yourself isolated, scared and threatened. Good luck trying to prove it.

And we are forgetting the role of lawyers, agents and PR heads who no doubt advised women and boys over and over not to go to the police, keep it quiet, you'll ruin your career, can not be proved.. when this broke, I can imagine the relief for some to be able to say outloud he did the exact same to me.

Women have been smiling through assault, rape, the threat of rape for generations. I think that is what you don't get.
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  #187  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:12
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Or if she has 2 brain cells to rub together she calls the police, gets him arrested, convicted and sues the arse off him. which is what any right thinking person would have done.
And he gets his army of lawyers to convince everyone that she's pissed off that he passed her over for a part and is trying to ruin him.

She never works again.

They said as much for Bill Cosby. He told actresses they'd be finished if they reported him. Nice.
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  #188  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:15
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

fame seems to over ride all logic.

none of my bosses past or present have ever committed a crime against me, let alone raped me, if they had I wouldn't be seen dead with them, they or I would be in prison.
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  #189  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:24
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Unfair to say they laughed and joked with him, how many of us have humored our boss/manager, laughed at jokes etc, while thinking this guy is a dork.
Probably a tad different after the boss/manager has raped you or made you watch him masturbate into a pot plant though.
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  #190  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:29
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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fame seems to over ride all logic.

none of my bosses past or present have ever committed a crime against let, let alone raped me, if they had I wouldn't be seen dead with them, they or I would be in prison.
I have met some creeps in my life, many in various jobs. Pre-empted them every time, kept out of their way, didn't draw attention to myself.. if you're smart, you learn to do that early in life. One guy was scary. I was also stalked for a time by a female a few years ago, that was just as freaky.

Seriously? To come along and say it has never happened to me, therefore this is all nonsense, is itself nonsense
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  #191  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:35
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Seriously? To come along and say it has never happened to me, therefore this is all nonsense, is itself nonsense

that's not what I'm saying at all!! I have no doubt, no doubt at all that it happens / happened. It seems to be part and parcel of being an actress (not just in the USA) especially if (shall we say) you're not actually very talented.

I just find it unbelievable that these women didn't go to the police, posed with him like nothing happened, accepted cash from him for their silence, and so allowed him to find the next victim.
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  #192  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:47
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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that's not what I'm saying at all!! I have no doubt, no doubt at all that it happens / happened. It seems to be part and parcel of being an actress (not just in the USA) especially if (shall we say) you're not actually very talented.

I just find it unbelievable that these women didn't go to the police, posed with him like nothing happened, accepted cash from him for their silence, and so allowed him to find the next victim.
Okay, I get you.

The seedy culture and power, fear in Hollywood. The lawyers/ agents' advice would be for them to take this exact course:

Stay silent, take the money and keep smiling if you want the work.
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  #193  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:54
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Okay, I get you.

The seedy culture and power, fear in Hollywood. The lawyers/ agents' advice would be for them to take this exact course:

Stay silent, take the money and keep smiling if you want the work.
It's interesting when you Google or imdb people who were in one or two films, blockbusters or otherwise, then disappeared from the industry, you now begin to wonder how many of them jacked it in because they couldn't handle the abuse.
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  #194  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:59
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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It's interesting when you Google or imdb people who were in one or two films, blockbusters or otherwise, then disappeared from the industry, you now begin to wonder how many of them jacked it in because they couldn't handle the abuse.
I wonder how many more hundreds of thousands of very talented people just didn't bother in the first place because they didn't see the value in spending time in such a well-known cesspool.

Not related to abuse, but I just recently binned an application as soon as I realised who I'd be working for. I need a job, but I don't need one that badly.

Then there was the time I left a job at a residential school because the boss thought it was acceptable to burst into my bedroom when I was sleeping to berate me for some perceived professional failing.

And I work in a generally pretty benign profession. People who go to Hollywood know exactly what it's like. As I asked earlier in the thread: why do Roman Polanski, Woody Allen and Bill Clinton still get a free pass?

I don't think it belittles anybody's personal experiences to call the entire industry out for a monumental degree of hypocrisy - by both men and women.
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  #195  
Old 22.11.2017, 17:22
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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That wasn't the point she was making...
You can't have double standards unless you have a comparable sitation.
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  #196  
Old 22.11.2017, 20:50
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Or if she has 2 brain cells to rub together she calls the police, gets him arrested, convicted and sues the arse off him. which is what any right thinking person would have done.
You’d think that.....The problem with this is that rape is very much a victim versus perpetrator crime. And if the supposed victim has few resources, the victim is not going to get very far. There‘s a lot of blaming the victim.... people have a strong sense of just world beliefs....the vic must have done something to motivate the attack. And rules of evidence, arrest in the US anyway, make rape allegations difficult.

And perhaps it was not your intent, but suggesting a that a victim hasn‘t got the requisite brain cells (otherwise she (or he) would report it), is actually blaming the victim too.

Would be nice if victims felt like reporting attacks, but fear of reprisals, not being taken seriously etc prevents all that.
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  #198  
Old 19.12.2017, 09:25
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I would say there is no doubt that this is true, but at the same time women would not even do this if that was not the accepted environment in the first place. This all started in the early 20th century when the film industry kicked off, the world was a very different and misogynistic place and this behaviour was the norm for many decades. If I was a woman and knew that despite being an amazing actress it was one of my only ways to securing a glittering career and enduring fame then I would consider doing it too. They were put in that position and made the best of it, who knows what they would do in the same circumstances.
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Old 19.12.2017, 10:31
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Made me think of Boule de Suif
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Old 19.12.2017, 12:29
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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You’d think that.....The problem with this is that rape is very much a victim versus perpetrator crime. And if the supposed victim has few resources, the victim is not going to get very far. There‘s a lot of blaming the victim.... people have a strong sense of just world beliefs....the vic must have done something to motivate the attack. And rules of evidence, arrest in the US anyway, make rape allegations difficult.

And perhaps it was not your intent, but suggesting a that a victim hasn‘t got the requisite brain cells (otherwise she (or he) would report it), is actually blaming the victim too.

Would be nice if victims felt like reporting attacks, but fear of reprisals, not being taken seriously etc prevents all that.
This.
Also worth mentioning that those episodes were in the vast majority done to actresses at the beginning of their career. So it was not like "it's his word against mine" but more like "his word against noone's". Add to that that it's up to the victim to demonstrate it was non-consensual and the army of lawyers on the aggressor's side and there is a better picture perhaps.

About the "why going to Hollywood if you know it's a cesspool" question. Imagine you're a [insert any sport] player. You start from regional teams, get up the ladder until someone important notices you and gives you a chance, and you may end up in the national team, which is a "well known cesspool". What do you do, you give up your chance or give it a shot? Can you even get blamed for trying and make a dream come true?
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