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Old 19.12.2017, 12:58
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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About the "why going to Hollywood if you know it's a cesspool" question. Imagine you're a [insert any sport] player. You start from regional teams, get up the ladder until someone important notices you and gives you a chance, and you may end up in the national team, which is a "well known cesspool". What do you do, you give up your chance or give it a shot? Can you even get blamed for trying and make a dream come true?
You *can* jump into the cesspool, it's a choice. If you do though, don't complain years later that you stink of shit.
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  #202  
Old 19.12.2017, 13:39
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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You *can* jump into the cesspool, it's a choice. If you do though, don't complain years later that you stink of shit.
I wanted to point out that arriving to Hollywood is like the best that can professionally happen to an actor/actress. In the beginning they are not exactly making a lot of money but most likely struggling to make it to the end the month. Trying to realize the dream you had all your life, for which you studied and worked hard for years can very well overweight the potential risks posed by the environment itself. And even if some of those women have been thinking "this will never happen to me"... so what? Might have been an underestimation of the risks or an overestimation of themselves, but still they are entitled to complain IMHO
We can discuss about why those complains are heard now and not before, or why complains about Mr X have consequences and complains about Mr Y do not but this has nothing to do with the right to denounce a wrong has been committed.
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  #203  
Old 19.12.2017, 15:27
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I'm sorry, I have to go with the usual misogynists on call here...Unless it was an abuse which came out of nowhere, as it appeared to be in some of the cases that are out these days, throwing yourself into whoever powerful man's bed for the sake of your career, won't cut it to me. This is a moment when I don't necessarily lose my respect for you (it's really your business), but I'll never feel sorry for you.
Abuse, rape, harassment, insinuations are totally different than those "sacrifices". They want a shortcut in life or career, it's fine with me, but don't dare complain after that and play the victim.

I like to believe there are some actresses who didn't build their careers on sexual favours. I think that someone who is really talented will get further away, maybe later of course, even without compromises. I might be naive, but well..my 2 last cents on this issue.
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  #204  
Old 19.12.2017, 15:45
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I'm sorry, I have to go with the usual misogynists on call here
Whereas dajegas is a misandrist?

You usually know way better than this.
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Old 19.12.2017, 15:48
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Whereas dajegas is a misandrist?

You usually know way better than this.
I was thinking of Loz actually...
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  #206  
Old 19.12.2017, 16:13
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I was thinking of Loz actually...
Misogynist? There's a new one. I can add it to list! Bigot, racist, Islamophobe, xenophobe... just throw em in my direction. I don't mind!
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Old 19.12.2017, 16:31
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I was thinking of Loz actually...
Use singular then, or make it clear whom you mean
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  #208  
Old 19.12.2017, 16:33
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Abuse, rape, harassment, insinuations are totally different than those "sacrifices". They want a shortcut in life or career, it's fine with me, but don't dare complain after that and play the victim.
I think we have different definitions on "abuse", not to mention the other terms you listed. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

However, for the sake of clarity, I was not talking about people finding career shortcuts. What I meant was that some people had to accept an abuse in order to obtain what was rightfully theirs in the first place.
Sort of like: you did really well in the audition, you really are the right actress for the part, but you know, the second best was not bad either, and look outside how many more are there...
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  #209  
Old 19.12.2017, 17:03
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

some people must live on a totally different planet then me, since when was the world fair? since when did the best person ever get the job? since when didn't women (and if lucky enough men) ever not use their charms to get what they want? since when didn't powerful people abuse their power? the list is endless

I was called to a meeting in his hotel room late at night / early in the morning, ffs please, seriously??? you had no idea what that meant??? then you're really really stupid.

really, its all another non story
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  #210  
Old 19.12.2017, 17:09
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I was called to a meeting in his hotel room late at night / early in the morning, ffs please, seriously??? you had no idea what that meant??? then you're really really stupid.
Back in the day of the Mike Tyson case, a couple older female coworkers were discussing it (in Italian).

One said 'if I were to go to a guys hotel room at 2AM, I'd certainly not be expecting a cup of tea!'

Tom
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  #211  
Old 19.12.2017, 17:40
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

From the list of abusers of the vulnerable mentioned here the French first lady is conspicuously missing. But as DSK has shown, they have a high level of "tolerance" there.
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  #212  
Old 19.12.2017, 17:52
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I'm from L.A., and we've been all well aware of Hollywood casting couches. This is actually considered a career move for many young attractive women who come to L.A. I remember a particular actress/waitress who broke down in tears because Stallone invited her coworker back to his pad, and not her. She considered it having missed her Big Chance. And this is just in the movie industry. The music industry is on yet another level beneath this.

And to think most of these celebrities have been the same ones who have been virtue signalling about Trump, as if they were the vanguards of American morals and values. Buahahaha .

This only touches on sexual harassments. The level of racism in Hollywood is even worse, worse in Hollywood than it is in the deep south. Of course you would never know any of these from their tweets, as their virtue signalling comes off as if they were the vanguards of morals and values. They rarely hire Mexicans and Blacks in their offices.

Really, we know the hipocrisy quite well. They are actors and performers afterall, ffs.
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Old 20.12.2017, 07:29
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I think we have different definitions on "abuse", not to mention the other terms you listed. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

However, for the sake of clarity, I was not talking about people finding career shortcuts. What I meant was that some people had to accept an abuse in order to obtain what was rightfully theirs in the first place.
Sort of like: you did really well in the audition, you really are the right actress for the part, but you know, the second best was not bad either, and look outside how many more are there...
So? There always must be another role, another auditions, another movies not necessarily for the big screen but also for tv, other directors, other movie crews. We are talking about an industry that produces hundreds of movies, shows etc per year (I always wanted to look for the stats, I only assume it's about big numbers, probably thousands). There are independent theatres, there's Broadway, there are uni theatres, there are low budget independent movies..etc etc C'mon, it's not that bad to be an actor or an actress in 'murica.
You see, this how things start to go downhill, when everybody feels like they have to compromise...you're going to make it even worse for the next generations.
We are talking about mostly white females here, who can always have some alternatives, not some poor illegal women immigrants who have to accept all sort of abuses because they can be reported and kicked out of the land of fair and brave otherwise (cough cough ) and probably are the only bread winners for an entire family back home...let's not forget that in this (Hollywood) case it's about fame, lots of money and all the advantages that come with..
But once you start accepting things you're going to make it worse not only for yourself but for every other woman that comes after you.

Let's not mix up things, out of respect for real victims, and I bet there are plenty of them.

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I'm from L.A., and we've been all well aware of Hollywood casting couches. This is actually considered a career move for many young attractive women who come to L.A. I remember a particular actress/waitress who broke down in tears because Stallone invited her coworker back to his pad, and not her. She considered it having missed her Big Chance. And this is just in the movie industry. The music industry is on yet another level beneath this.

And to think most of these celebrities have been the same ones who have been virtue signalling about Trump, as if they were the vanguards of American morals and values. Buahahaha .

.
OK, I get it, you hate the whole American cinematography because of some bad apples and because some real celebrities (not some bimbos like the case you mentioned) dared to criticise Trump. It's good to know what are we talking about here.

Last edited by greenmount; 20.12.2017 at 08:23.
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  #214  
Old 20.12.2017, 09:12
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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So? There always must be another role, another auditions, another movies not necessarily for the big screen but also for tv, other directors, other movie crews. We are talking about an industry that produces hundreds of movies, shows etc per year (I always wanted to look for the stats, I only assume it's about big numbers, probably thousands). There are independent theatres, there's Broadway, there are uni theatres, there are low budget independent movies..etc etc C'mon, it's not that bad to be an actor or an actress in 'murica.
You see, this how things start to go downhill, when everybody feels like they have to compromise...you're going to make it even worse for the next generations.
We are talking about mostly white females here, who can always have some alternatives, not some poor illegal women immigrants who have to accept all sort of abuses because they can be reported and kicked out of the land of fair and brave otherwise (cough cough ) and probably are the only bread winners for an entire family back home...let's not forget that in this (Hollywood) case it's about fame, lots of money and all the advantages that come with..
But once you start accepting things you're going to make it worse not only for yourself but for every other woman that comes after you.

Let's not mix up things, out of respect for real victims, and I bet there are plenty of them.
While I agree many (most) of the involved women could have handled it better, while I also agree that they might have given up and looked elsewhere, and while I would even go further and say that maybe in that exact moment what they did seem to them as the "right" thing to do, I still call it an abuse when someone gets blackmailed to do something they would not normally do, I still call them victims, and I still have no problem when they finally publicly denounce what happened to them, be it after one day, one month or 20 years.

I also think that if instead of sexual favors those women were asked for money no one would now refuse to see them as victims of corruption and bribery.
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Old 20.12.2017, 15:59
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Does this sound familiar from our childhood conversations with friends, "what would you do for a million dollars?"

when men do it - it is a choice

when women do it - they are victims


put it another way.

What did Tom Cruise have to do?
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Old 20.12.2017, 16:07
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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OK, I get it, you hate the whole American cinematography because of some bad apples and because some real celebrities (not some bimbos like the case you mentioned) dared to criticise Trump. It's good to know what are we talking about here.
Not really, only that they produce mediocre movies infused with weird ideologies, and then act as if they speak for the whole of humanity. Somewhat over-valued in their own sight, in my opinion. They aren't thought leaders, they are bought spokespersons for a gulllible mass.
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Old 21.12.2017, 14:12
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Posters of Meryl Streep and Weinstein popping up around LA. Of course she knew, they all knew all this time.

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  #218  
Old 10.01.2018, 08:14
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Some might say that she speaks a lot of sense... I couldn't possibly comment

Catherine Deneuve defends men's 'right' to hit on women


Catherine Deneuve has been in more than 100 films in a career spanning decades

French actress Catherine Deneuve has said that men should be "free to hit on" women.

She is one of 100 well-known French women who wrote an open letter, warning about a new "puritanism" sparked by recent sexual harassment scandals.

The letter deplores a wave of "denunciations" after claims that US movie mogul Harvey Weinstein has raped or sexually assaulted dozens of women.

Mr Weinstein has denied all allegations of non-consensual sex.

However, he has admitted that his behaviour has "caused a lot of pain".

What does the open letter say?
The letter by French women writers, performers and academics was published in France's Le Monde newspaper on Tuesday.

"Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss," it said.

"Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or clumsily, is not - and nor is men being gentlemanly a chauvinist attack."

The authors argued that there was a new "puritanism" afoot in the world.

They said that while it was legitimate and necessary to speak out against the abuse of power by some men, the constant denunciations have spiralled out of control.

According to the writers, this is creating a public mood in which women are seen as powerless, as perpetual victims.

"As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality."

Ms Deneuve, 74, has recently spoken openly against social media campaigns, which, she says, shame men accused of harassing women.

Women and men from all over the globe who have been sexually harassed have been sharing their stories across social media using the hashtag #MeToo.

In France, Twitter users are using #Balancetonporc ("rat on your dirty old man") to encourage women to name and shame their attackers.

Ms Deneuve, an Oscar-nominated actress, has been in more than 100 films, making her debut in 1957.

Source
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Old 10.01.2018, 10:15
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Some might say that she speaks a lot of sense... I couldn't possibly comment

Catherine Deneuve defends men's 'right' to hit on women

Hope for humanity!
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  #220  
Old 10.01.2018, 11:12
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I think there's two sides to every story.

It could get very difficult for men if they are afraid to make the first move on a date. Do you offer a kiss after you walk a lady home or should you get written consent first?

On the other hand, getting your dick out as she comes in through the door shouldn't really be considered flirting.

Personally, if I got invited back to a women's hotel room, if I decided to go, I'm quite able to work out that it wouldn't be so we could watch the Simpsons.
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