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  #221  
Old 10.01.2018, 11:37
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

There is a difference between asking a woman out for a date and meeting a woman for work aka being colleagues, be it rehearsals, trying out performance costumes or whatnot.
In the first instance there is no problem in being gallant, I'd even say that's the whole point of a date, in the second one has to act professionally. If one likes a woman he's working with then one can always ask her out later.

Being clear is key, and using work as an excuse to meet is a hint for potential abuse, especially if the man is a decision maker that can possibly affect the career of the woman.

This being said, there are extreme positions (IMHO) arising from the #MeToo movement. That "Sleeping Beauty" should be banned because of the prince kissing her without consent is (again IMHO) utter nonsense.
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  #222  
Old 10.01.2018, 15:18
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Some might say that she speaks a lot of sense... I couldn't possibly comment

Catherine Deneuve defends men's 'right' to hit on women
My first thought after reading was - Oh, this is so...French!

But seriously. With all due respect, Ms. Deneuve and the other distinguished personalities should only speak for themselves.
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  #223  
Old 10.01.2018, 15:24
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

as careers and lives have been ruined for a man daring to touch a womans knee recently i'd say a few bucket loads of common sense are long over due in this whole crusade
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  #224  
Old 10.01.2018, 17:28
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

<<Catherine Deneuve defends men's 'right' to hit on women>>

I agree.

Life is gonna become very dull otherwise.
What happened to the old "thanks but no thanks", or if necessary "oy, I'm not interested, alright?"

99% of the guys are alright and can be talked to. The other 1% can be taken to court.

addition: English is an interesting language: Taken "to court"? LOL.

Last edited by curley; 10.01.2018 at 17:29. Reason: addition
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  #225  
Old 10.01.2018, 17:41
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I think there's two sides to every story.

It could get very difficult for men if they are afraid to make the first move on a date. Do you offer a kiss after you walk a lady home or should you get written consent first?

On the other hand, getting your dick out as she comes in through the door shouldn't really be considered flirting.

Personally, if I got invited back to a women's hotel room, if I decided to go, I'm quite able to work out that it wouldn't be so we could watch the Simpsons.
always get written consent first. it's the right thing to do.

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  #226  
Old 10.01.2018, 19:09
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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as careers and lives have been ruined for a man daring to touch a womans knee recently i'd say a few bucket loads of common sense are long over due in this whole crusade
"Fake news!" category..

What if they don't dare to touch anyone's knee without the consent of the person they so compulsively want to touch? What if your daughter was touched, would you take it so lightly? Really, there should be some boundaries in all this unwanted courtship or "admiring" thing.
Those whose careers and lives were ruined didn't touch only a knee for sure...

Last edited by greenmount; 10.01.2018 at 19:20.
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  #227  
Old 10.01.2018, 19:42
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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"Fake news!" category..

What if they don't dare to touch anyone's knee without the consent of the person they so compulsively want to touch? What if your daughter was touched, would you take it so lightly? Really, there should be some boundaries in all this unwanted courtship or "admiring" thing.
Those whose careers and lives were ruined didn't touch only a knee for sure...
If I had a daughter and she was touched I'd hope she'd slap his face in return. Think that would make her point pretty clear.
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  #228  
Old 10.01.2018, 20:16
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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If I had a daughter and she was touched I'd hope she'd slap his face in return. Think that would make her point pretty clear.
Lol, with the hope that a slap in the face will make everything right, no?

At this point any discussion is futile. Those whose behaviour ruined their lives did more than touching a knee, even you might suspect this...that post struck me as very hypocritical considering the outrage Trump's bad joke "Grab them by the pussy" has caused here.
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  #229  
Old 10.01.2018, 20:58
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Lol, with the hope that a slap in the face will make everything right, no?

At this point any discussion is futile. Those whose behaviour ruined their lives did more than touching a knee, even you might suspect this...that post struck me as very hypocritical considering the outrage Trump's bad joke "Grab them by the pussy" has caused here.
You were the one who said "touched". I take that to mean yes, a touch. Not a physical sexual assault. If someone touched my knee uninvited yes I'd slap their face and walk off. If someone physically sexually assaulted me I'd go to the police and yell "rape". There IS a difference which is getting more and more blurred behind all the perceived outrage.

And if you want hypocritical, what about all these now famous actresses who went along with it to further their careers and are now using the rape word? I'm not saying that some of these men aren't guilty and I'm also not saying that some of the women's statements aren't true. But I think there's a lot more hypocrisy going on and people need to open their eyes and see it. Hollywood has been known for this "I'm in power, do what I want or you don't get the role" scenario for literally decades, probably nearly a hundred years by now. If you don't like it, say NO very loudly and find another career.

Things need to change in Hollywood and many, many other areas and let's hope this actually has some effect. But I would still like to see the principle of "innocent until PROVEN guilty" applied. Unfortunately, no one seems to be interested in doing anything but shouting GUILTY at the top of their lungs regardless of whether there's any evidence to back it up.
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  #230  
Old 10.01.2018, 21:35
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Oh boy, good old times when you just had to offer that very last glass of prosecco to get her consent.
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  #231  
Old 10.01.2018, 22:08
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I see a boon for the sex-bot industry.

Tom
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  #232  
Old 10.01.2018, 22:25
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Have all these ladies pressed charges officially yet or are they just dragging the guys through the mud?

I respect anyone who takes the official, legal way. But mudslinging should be a criminal offence liable to public prosecution!
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  #233  
Old 11.01.2018, 01:14
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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There is a difference between asking a woman out for a date and meeting a woman for work aka being colleagues, be it rehearsals, trying out performance costumes or whatnot.
In the first instance there is no problem in being gallant, I'd even say that's the whole point of a date, in the second one has to act professionally. If one likes a woman he's working with then one can always ask her out later.
This is the closest I've seen to a decent answer in the last few pages of this thread.

I'm no great ravishing beauty, and I'm no shy, little, shrinking violet either, but I struggle to remember exactly how many times I've been sexually assaulted under the current context of the term, but it's close to double figures. The first time I was 17, and the last time I was 46. On every single occassion except the last one, it's been male colleagues or male friends who've 'dealt' with the matter.

When this whole Weinstein thing broke, I was in the UK and went for dinner with 7 of my girls one night. This got brought up and every one of my girl friends could count several times when they'd been sexually threatened, intimidated or assaulted, and every single one of us had experienced it in the work place on at least one occasion.

What worries me is this whole idea of women needing to be strong and outspoken about the issue. I've always been strong and outspoken, but it doesn't stop situations happening, which makes me concerned that people can lull themselves into a false sense of security and become more inclined to victim blame. And let's not forget, the victims can be man and women.

Just for the record, I've never seen myself as a victim. That's just not part of who I am and how I see myself. I've always fought back, or other men have fought back on my behalf, but something that's always stuck in my craw, was the reason given by my second attacker for choosing me.

I was 18, 5 weeks into my first job, a guy followed me into the store room and cornered me. I growled in his face to let me pass or he'd get regret it. He laughed and let me pass. I told 3 of the guys I worked with, including one who was an old school friend. Second occasion he followed me into the ladies at the end of the shift. I reported him. My boss told him to leave me alone and gave him a final warning. The third occasion he followed me into the cloak room at the end of the shift and locked the door behind him. Some of my male colleagues saw him follow me and kicked the door in before he got a chance to do anything more than pin me against the wall. When he was sacked, my boss asked why he'd chosen me, and he said it was because he knew I'd fight back and it made me a challenge.

There's some sick twisted people in this World, but I absolutely refuse to tar all men or women with the same brush.
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  #234  
Old 11.01.2018, 07:48
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I was 18, 5 weeks into my first job, a guy followed me into the store room and cornered me. I growled in his face to let me pass or he'd get regret it. He laughed and let me pass. I told 3 of the guys I worked with, including one who was an old school friend. Second occasion he followed me into the ladies at the end of the shift. I reported him. My boss told him to leave me alone and gave him a final warning. The third occasion he followed me into the cloak room at the end of the shift and locked the door behind him. Some of my male colleagues saw him follow me and kicked the door in before he got a chance to do anything more than pin me against the wall. When he was sacked, my boss asked why he'd chosen me, and he said it was because he knew I'd fight back and it made me a challenge.

There's some sick twisted people in this World, but I absolutely refuse to tar all men or women with the same brush.
How dared you report him, haven't you thought about destroying his reputation or career?
Some here would argue that the guy was only trying his luck, you didn't get raped in the end, or physically assaulted, and you should've shake hands and go on with your life. Forget the whole thing. This is exactly the kind of situation when one has to speak out loud, ottherwise they'll just perpetuate they behaviour and try "their luck" again with someone weaker.

Anyways, I agree with you that dajegas' post was the closest to decency here. Fortunately I haven't been put in the situation to report someone, all the colleagues I ever had were frankly, pretty decent human beings (yes, there was some flirting but that's a different thing)- and indeed, asking out someone is not harassing as long as a "No" will suffice, and no-one has hard feelings after that. If you try to get intimate against someone's will and or even intimidate the other...this is a nasty thing and shouldn't be tolerated.
Seriously, why people here pretend they don't get it? Nobody in their right mind would agree with false accusations or tarring every man with the same brush. We are talking about boundaries and when too much is too much. I assume that most women know the difference between someone who likes them and wants a little bit more, and tries to get that in a normal manner, accepts a refusal and moves on, and another one who is actually harassing them.

I get it that some women like a little boldness, if not aggressive, but that wasn't the kind of situations were implied here. Let's not pretend we don't get it. (not you, Blueangel, you do get it very well)

Last edited by greenmount; 11.01.2018 at 08:16.
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  #235  
Old 11.01.2018, 09:00
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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We are talking about boundaries and when too much is too much.
There's a fine line between being sweet and being creepy.
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  #236  
Old 11.01.2018, 09:22
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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There's a fine line between being sweet and being creepy.
Rule of thumb: you crossed that line when you try to get physically intimate with a woman against her will.

There are some cultures that are more physically "affectionate" than others, take Brazil for instance, where a slightly inappropriate touch can remain unnoticed or people won't make a big fuss over it, and I do get the perspective of the French group. Trying to mix up these sort of things with sexual harassment and imply that there can't be a clear demarcation line between the two of them and that most women overreact or exaggerate and mistake affectionate but rather innocent gestures for sexual harassment is exactly the type of moral relativism that encourages sexual abuses.
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Old 11.01.2018, 09:40
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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There's a fine line between being sweet and being creepy.
I guess a good barometer is to ask yourself, as a bloke, if you would be happy with someone acting like that with your wife/daughter/sister and if it gives you the heebeejeebies, then it's probably inappropriate behaviour.
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  #238  
Old 11.01.2018, 10:21
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I guess a good barometer is to ask yourself, as a bloke, if you would be happy with someone acting like that with your wife/daughter/sister and if it gives you the heebeejeebies, then it's probably inappropriate behaviour.
Exactly!

I've said on EF before about one of my friends who had to get the police involved because someone was putting a single red rose under the windscreen wiper of her car on the work's car park. She's an incredibly headstrong, feisty woman, and I'd hate to get on the wrong side of her temper, but this got her nervous because it went on for over a month. When your boss has to walk you to your car at 17.30 every day to make sure you're safe, that's clearly wrong.
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  #239  
Old 11.01.2018, 10:43
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I get it that some women like a little boldness, if not aggressive, but that wasn't the kind of situations were implied here. Let's not pretend we don't get it. (not you, Blueangel, you do get it very well)
Just for clarity, my brother, ex husband and ex fiance before him, were all bikers/rockers. I must have spent the first 40yrs of my life in jeans, t-shirt and a bike jacket, and in that community, there was a very clear code of conduct regarding how men treat women. If a man was inappropriate with a woman, he got his head kicked in, and every guy who was like that with me was from outside of that community.
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  #240  
Old 11.01.2018, 17:25
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

new handbook for date rape:


I really can't stay, baby it's cold outside
I've got to go away, baby it's cold outside
The evening has been, been hoping that you'd drop in
So very nice, I'll hold your hands, they're just like ice
My mother will start to worry, beautiful, what's your hurry?
Father will be pacing the floor, listen to the fireplace roar
So really I'd better scurry, beautiful, please don't hurry
Maybe just a half a drink more, put some records on while I pour
The neighbors might think, baby, it's bad out there
Say, what's in this drink, no cabs to be had out there
I wish I knew how, your eyes are like starlight now
To break this spell, I'll take your hat, your hair looks swell
I ought to say no, no, no - Mind if I move in closer?
At least I'm gonna say that I tried - What's the sense in hurting my pride?
I really can't stay - Baby don't hold out
Ah, but it's cold outside
I've got to get home, oh, baby, you'll freeze out there
Say, lend me your coat, it's up to your knees out there
You've really been grand, thrill when you touch my hair
Why don't you see, how can you do this thing to me?
There's bound to be talk tomorrow, think of my life long sorrow
At least there will be plenty implied, if you caught pneumonia and died
I really can't stay, get over that hold out
Ah, but it's cold outside
Oh, baby, it's cold outside
Oh, baby, it's cold outside

Baby, It's Cold Outside
She & Him
Songwriters: Frank Loesser
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