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  #241  
Old 11.01.2018, 17:35
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Just for clarity, my brother, ex husband and ex fiance before him, were all bikers/rockers. I must have spent the first 40yrs of my life in jeans, t-shirt and a bike jacket, and in that community, there was a very clear code of conduct regarding how men treat women. If a man was inappropriate with a woman, he got his head kicked in, and every guy who was like that with me was from outside of that community.
Bikers respect other men's rides.
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  #242  
Old 11.01.2018, 18:15
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Bikers respect other men's rides.


Tom
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  #243  
Old 11.01.2018, 18:30
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Tom
I didn't dare to laugh (publicly that was)
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  #244  
Old 11.01.2018, 19:38
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Bikers respect other men's rides.
It's crudely put but very true in my experience.

I saw a guy trying to hit on a married woman on a reality tv show the other night. She held up her hand to show she was wearing a wedding ring, and he said "That's just a barrier". The woman chose to laugh the situation off and went on her way, but there were so many possible reactions to that scenario.
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  #245  
Old 14.01.2018, 08:40
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Back to the famous letter some people think it's an oxygen breeze into this whole "men shaming affair" ....btw, this movement is not a conspiracy against males, as some so much want to see it...
Catherine Deneuve was only one of the many who signed it (I believe she thought she's defending romance or something). I read it, it was disappointing. But, to get an idea of what kind of folks signed this letter, allegedly to counter-balance the public hysteria, here (only in French) is what one of them declared some time ago..

http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-fai...e-consentement

I'd have something to tell them right into their face, if I was given the opportunity - "Thank you very much ladies, but I really don't want you to speak in my name, or my daughter's name. Uhm, OK?"

Last edited by greenmount; 14.01.2018 at 09:03. Reason: spelling
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  #246  
Old 14.01.2018, 12:25
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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.......
I'd have something to tell them right into their face, if I was given the opportunity - "Thank you very much ladies, but I really don't want you to speak in my name, or my daughter's name. Uhm, OK?"
Why would any of us ladies want to speak on behalf of you and your daughter?

Does your daughter agree with you speaking on behalf of her?
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  #247  
Old 15.01.2018, 07:22
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Why would any of us ladies want to speak on behalf of you and your daughter?
Lol, but fine, let's try an answer to this while I'm having my coffee. I meant those women who signed this famous letter, not you or anyone else on EF. I really didn't include you, curley. It is obvious that when someone makes public statements for a specific cause they assume they can speak in the name of many - in this case, of other women. Well, my point is they shouldn't assume that much. Women know when they're being admired or "courted" and when not - assuming people don't know the line between an innocent flirt or courtship and harassment sounds terribly condescending. To put it in a public letter meant to influence other people and gather signatures of prominent figures to give it even more weight and influence - even more condescending, a little like your post above...but I don't take it personally. ("public" being really public, not some anonymous post on EF) It really is an uninspiring and uninspired letter under the circumstances - the sexual harassments wave that women have the courage to finally bring it out in the open and who knows, finally make a change. If it didn't happen to me or you it doesn't mean it didn't happen to other women - stats on sexual assaults and harassment at the working place can prove my point. If it wasn't a serious matter I wouldn't even have engaged in this discussion, rest assured. Maybe those who are also parents care more about these things.

Let's agree to disagree on this theme here, shall we? Thank you. Have a good day.

Last edited by greenmount; 15.01.2018 at 08:03.
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  #248  
Old 15.01.2018, 16:24
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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It is obvious that when someone makes public statements for a specific cause they assume they can speak in the name of many - in this case, of other women. Well, my point is they shouldn't assume that much.
The same applies to #MeToo etc. including the condescension and the try to influence others (btw the latter of which applies to each and every one of us).

So if you reserve the right to speak for yourself, and refuse to being spoken for, the exact same applies to everybody else including those French actresses.
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  #249  
Old 15.01.2018, 16:35
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Lol, but fine, let's try an answer to this while I'm having my coffee. I meant those women who signed this famous letter, not you or anyone else on EF. I really didn't include you, curley. It is obvious that when someone makes public statements for a specific cause they assume they can speak in the name of many - in this case, of other women. Well, my point is they shouldn't assume that much. Women know when they're being admired or "courted" and when not - assuming people don't know the line between an innocent flirt or courtship and harassment sounds terribly condescending. To put it in a public letter meant to influence other people and gather signatures of prominent figures to give it even more weight and influence - even more condescending, a little like your post above...but I don't take it personally. ("public" being really public, not some anonymous post on EF) It really is an uninspiring and uninspired letter under the circumstances - the sexual harassments wave that women have the courage to finally bring it out in the open and who knows, finally make a change. If it didn't happen to me or you it doesn't mean it didn't happen to other women - stats on sexual assaults and harassment at the working place can prove my point. If it wasn't a serious matter I wouldn't even have engaged in this discussion, rest assured. Maybe those who are also parents care more about these things.

Let's agree to disagree on this theme here, shall we? Thank you. Have a good day.
We can agree to disagree but there is one - I feel - grave mistake in the above post, which I highlighted.
These woman signed a public letter. They felt the need to express their own opinion, which is different from the very, very public (you agree?) accusations made over the last months. They speak for themselves, that's why they signed it, every signature shows who they spoke for.
It's okay to shout "me too" but not "not me"?

As I mentioned earlier: Take these guys to court, when they are convicted lock them up and throw away the key. That is the proper way to deal with improper behaviour these days.
Tabloid version of stoning may seem modern but is not.

One thing is for sure: If all woman agreed on this threads subject, we would have achieved an outstanding accomplishment. So let's not be depressed about not reaching that
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  #250  
Old 15.01.2018, 17:17
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Here's an English translation of the letter. It seems to me that they make valid points.

This is an interesting read: Am I a bad feminist? by Margaret Atwood
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  #251  
Old 15.01.2018, 18:10
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

My knight in shining armour better hurry up or he won't be able/allowed to sweep me off my feet
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  #252  
Old 15.01.2018, 18:33
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

when will the actresses-that-slept-their-way-up actually apologize to the ones who didn't, and did not get rich and famous?
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  #253  
Old 15.01.2018, 18:50
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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when will the actresses-that-slept-their-way-up actually apologize to the ones who didn't, and did not get rich and famous?
Hmmm, now that you mention it: These actresses are basically saying they only made it to the top because they slept with xy?
That defeats the whole "effort", doesn't it.


But worse: It belittles woman who really were attacked and/or raped. Woman who are not famous. Woman who don't make even more money out of shouting it out to the public.
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  #254  
Old 15.01.2018, 20:27
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Here's an English translation of the letter. It seems to me that they make valid points.

This is an interesting read: Am I a bad feminist? by Margaret Atwood
One word - "Fiamengo File". Well, that's two words. But equally common sense as above. Studio Brulé is quite interesting, too. Maybe hard to stomach for some.
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  #255  
Old 15.01.2018, 20:45
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I found this article from Aziz Ansari's accuser a very interesting read:

https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
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  #256  
Old 15.01.2018, 21:14
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I found this article from Aziz Ansari's accuser a very interesting read:

https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
"Horny, clumsy and entitled 18 year old is a pretty good description, to be fair.

His self respect seems a bit shot, too, given that she clearly wasn't responding to his frankly creepy advances but he kept banging the drum regardless. What a loser.
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  #257  
Old 15.01.2018, 22:25
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I found this article from Aziz Ansari's accuser a very interesting read:

https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
<<clear non-verbal cues>> what's wrong with verbal enunciation?

How many times a night do I <<chill over here on the couch>> - on his couch in his appartment if I don't feel comfortable with the guy?

<<He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did>> huh?

Am I the weirdo here?
These kind of stories are mockery of real sexual assaults and abuse.
I'm starting to get angry about this. Maybe I should pull out of the thread as my understanding of the real problem - which exists throughout the world - is a completly different one.
I've met victims - several - this one is not a victim.

Oh and <<We are not using her real name to protect her identity because she is not a public figure>>. Goodie. But him we give a good whipping, he's a public figure, much more to ruin in his life. For a person who is not into verbal communication she talked a lot afterwards.
No matter though, I don't even have to doubt a single word of what she said (and I don't) to come to my conclusion above.

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"Horny, clumsy and entitled 18 year old is a pretty good description, to be fair.

His self respect seems a bit shot, too, given that she clearly wasn't responding to his frankly creepy advances but he kept banging the drum regardless. What a loser.
I agree, he seems pretty desparate in this story LOL.
But how long would you make a clumsy 18 year old make a fool of himself before you walk? And would you really present yourself as a victim after?

Before anybody sends the red pebbles secretly through the ether, are you sure you don't see my point?
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  #258  
Old 16.01.2018, 10:20
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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"Horny, clumsy and entitled 18 year old is a pretty good description, to be fair.

His self respect seems a bit shot, too, given that she clearly wasn't responding to his frankly creepy advances but he kept banging the drum regardless. What a loser.
How would you call going down on him if not an completely positive response?
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  #259  
Old 16.01.2018, 11:29
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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"Horny, clumsy and entitled 18 year old is a pretty good description, to be fair.

His self respect seems a bit shot, too, given that she clearly wasn't responding to his frankly creepy advances but he kept banging the drum regardless. What a loser.
What stuck in her craw was seeing Ansari wear a 'badge' in support of the victims, apparently you shouldn't do that unless you have a completely unblemished sexual history with no ass-holery whatsoever.

I'm really surprised Mike Pence isn't more popular in the US
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Old 16.01.2018, 11:49
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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How would you call going down on him if not an completely positive response?
To be fair, I wasn't defending her to any greater degree. For one, it's only her side of the story, and for two, not having been there so impossible to get a true sense of the atmosphere, I think I probably would have just made my excuses and walked out on him.

Doesn't change the sentiment that he sounds like a bit of a sad and desperate loser, though.
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