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  #141  
Old 10.11.2017, 19:02
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

I'd say you've nailed it, 3W.
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  #142  
Old 10.11.2017, 19:10
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I'm saying the reaction is overblown.

He asked beforehand, and in case of a "No" he appears to have desisted.
Evidently you and I have read different reports, or we have very different comprehension skills, or you have some pretty impressive inside information to which nobody else is privy.
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  #143  
Old 10.11.2017, 20:54
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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This is probably going to come across totally wrong, but I'll give it a shot.

Part of me wonders...maybe the people claiming they were victims 20+ years ago and never spoke up until now have changed views of what "willing" was at the time? Let's take Rose McGowan as a random example.

Today she says she was raped by Weinstein. Terrible, awful stuff if true. But back when she was starting her career, it seems it was well-known you had to sleep with a powerful director or producer if you wanted a snowball's chance to get a part and a shot at stardom.

So she (and many others) did, even though she really, really didn't want to. She's kept silent until now, leaning on his arm and laughing and smiling like a good buddy, etc. while raking in the money. It was part and parcel of the job, if you will.

Now that so many women have spoken up, she realizes the system was rigged and now considers what happened to be rape.

Conversely, Weinstein thinks everything was "consensual" because he was the one with the power. The women knew what they had to do if they wanted a job.

Where's the legal line then? I'm not saying the women are making things up but I am saying from a courtroom standpoint it looks rather muddled.
But it's been this way since films first started being made. Anyone remember the "Fatty" Arbuckle scandal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle

And another actor being accused.

"A BBC drama has been taken out of the Christmas schedule after Ed Westwick, one of its stars, was accused of rape.

Agatha Christie's Ordeal by Innocence, which was due to be on BBC One, will not be broadcast "until these matters are resolved", the BBC said.

And the former Gossip Girl star has "paused" filming on the second series of BBC Two comedy White Gold."

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41941904
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  #144  
Old 11.11.2017, 08:55
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Oh my, life comes at you fast.

Hahahahahaha!

George Takei Speaks Out on Kevin Spacey Allegations

Star Trek star George Takei is accused of sexually assaulting an unconscious young male model in 1981
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  #145  
Old 11.11.2017, 09:05
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

and Sepp Blatter is back in the news:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41950198

"I had Sepp Blatter grab my ass."

The picture says 1000 words.
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  #146  
Old 11.11.2017, 09:14
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

There seems to be a lot of media conflation going on.. being a complete a**hole is not the same as rape.

Ellen Page says Brett Ratner outed her as gay in sexual remark when she was 18

Actor says Ratner urged another woman to have sex with her to ‘make her realize she’s gay’ before Page had come out to herself

Source
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  #147  
Old 11.11.2017, 09:27
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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There seems to be a lot of media conflation going on.. being a complete a**hole is not the same as rape.
Indeed. On the other hand a lot of women have been harrased and kept silent from different reasons - one of them being that people would have told them to put up with it because "it's not such a big deal, boys will be boys" sort of thing. Probably that's why some of them are firmly convinced they didn't do anything wrong.

While I'm definitely against false accusations and opportunism, maybe this wave of "revealing" is a good thing to put an end, once and for all, to these practices. It's just ugly, those "boys" are ugly adults who should keep their hands and mouths under control.
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  #148  
Old 11.11.2017, 09:58
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

The disappearance of Louis CK and George Takei from public life would improve my facebook feed immeasurably!
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  #149  
Old 11.11.2017, 10:52
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Bring this pervert down
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and Sepp Blatter is back in the news:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41950198

"I had Sepp Blatter grab my ass."

The picture says 1000 words.
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  #150  
Old 11.11.2017, 13:19
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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I'm saying the reaction is overblown.

He asked beforehand, and in case of a "No" he appears to have desisted.
Not at all, and he admits it....
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These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I’ve tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn’t want to hear it. I didn’t think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with. I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.

The hardest regret to live with is what you’ve done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I’d be remiss to exclude the hurt that I’ve brought on people who I work with and have worked with who’s professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of Better Things, Baskets, The Cops, One Mississippi, and I Love You, Daddy. I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused. I’ve brought anguish and hardship to the people at FX who have given me so much The Orchard who took a chance on my movie. and every other entity that has bet on me through the years. I’ve brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.

I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen. Thank you for reading.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/a...statement.html

But, I find it hard to believe that he didn't know exactly what he was doing. If he was completely honest in his apology, than the problems is much bigger than we think.
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  #151  
Old 11.11.2017, 13:32
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Let's step back a moment here and ask ourselves: what kind of pervert wants to wank in front of women at work?

It doesn't really matter whether he asked for permission first - it's a bloody weird and inappropriate thing to want to do in the first place.

So tell me, 50 years on, how is that Sexual Revolution thing working out for y'all?
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  #152  
Old 11.11.2017, 14:00
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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and Sepp Blatter is back in the news:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41950198

"I had Sepp Blatter grab my ass."

The picture says 1000 words.
Who would want to grab her ass?

Tom
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  #153  
Old 11.11.2017, 14:16
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Both of you.......

Miss the point big time.



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So tell me, 50 years on, how is that Sexual Revolution thing working out for y'all?
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Who would want to grab her ass?

Tom

Going to have to decide what‘s relevant and what‘s not. For now, we just have to pick through a flood of catharsis and dredging up the past. Is it all relevant? How do we decide?
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  #154  
Old 11.11.2017, 14:46
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

just wondering when the men will come out with charges of harassment from women or homosexuals .
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  #155  
Old 11.11.2017, 14:51
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Both of you.......

Miss the point big time
Not at all. It's become blatantly clear, from the revelations about the filthy bastards shagging underage groupies in the sixties to the filthy bastards assaulting kids and interns at the BBC in the seventies to the cesspool of Hollywood from the eighties till now, that the so-called "sexual revolution" was little more than a perverts' charter.

But hey, why be so uptight? Why don't we let it all hang out? Groovy!
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  #156  
Old 11.11.2017, 15:19
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Not at all. It's become blatantly clear, from the revelations about the filthy bastards shagging underage groupies in the sixties to the filthy bastards assaulting kids and interns at the BBC in the seventies to the cesspool of Hollywood from the eighties till now, that the so-called "sexual revolution" was little more than a perverts' charter.

But hey, why be so uptight? Why don't we let it all hang out? Groovy!

Meh. This crap has been going on for longer than the 1960s. Clear as mud, rather.
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  #157  
Old 11.11.2017, 15:25
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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This is probably going to come across totally wrong, but I'll give it a shot.

Part of me wonders...maybe the people claiming they were victims 20+ years ago and never spoke up until now have changed views of what "willing" was at the time? Let's take Rose McGowan as a random example.

Today she says she was raped by Weinstein. Terrible, awful stuff if true. But back when she was starting her career, it seems it was well-known you had to sleep with a powerful director or producer if you wanted a snowball's chance to get a part and a shot at stardom.

So she (and many others) did, even though she really, really didn't want to. She's kept silent until now, leaning on his arm and laughing and smiling like a good buddy, etc. while raking in the money. It was part and parcel of the job, if you will.

Now that so many women have spoken up, she realizes the system was rigged and now considers what happened to be rape.

Conversely, Weinstein thinks everything was "consensual" because he was the one with the power. The women knew what they had to do if they wanted a job.

Where's the legal line then? I'm not saying the women are making things up but I am saying from a courtroom standpoint it looks rather muddled.
What if it, in fact, was consentual and they simply do not want to live with that moral hangover. Looks like they can make cash on getting rid of it, while sitting on it for 20yrs advanced their career. Is there any way that these men in power can actually free themselves of the accusations of whatever happened decades ago? Is it a system where both sides are using eachother? Which side is sadder?
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  #158  
Old 11.11.2017, 15:29
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Meh. This crap has been going on for longer than the 1960s. Clear as mud, rather.
Yep, Maureen O Hara's 1945 letter for starters.. Judy Garland was drugged for most of her acting career. Goodness knows what else happened.. far more secretive in those days. Young male rapes would have been kept well under wraps, the victims would never have spoken up.

Church abuse of children and young men/ women in religious orders dates back to the 20s. Well, that is how far the investigations and reports go back to.

Last edited by Swisstree; 11.11.2017 at 15:48.
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  #159  
Old 11.11.2017, 15:30
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

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Meh. This crap has been going on for longer than the 1960s. Clear as mud, rather.
True, but the "sexual revolution" legitimised it. Look at how the exploitation and objectification of women's bodies exploded in the seventies. Progressive types like Harriet Harman in the UK even supported paedophiles in their quest for recognition and having their "needs" met.

Our entire culture has been in denial for decades, but now that progressive darlings like Louis CK and his chums are being exposed for the filth wizards they always were, maybe there's a chance that we might acknowledge that opening the sluice brings crocodiles along with the fish.
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  #160  
Old 11.11.2017, 15:34
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Re: When You Wish Upon a Weinstein

Just to reiterate: Louis CK, who has infested my facebook feed like herpes for the last three years, thought it was ok to ask women to watch him having a wank at work.

He thought it was ok. He asked permission, so it was ok. Having a wank at work was ok.

If that doesn't sum up the "sexual revolution", I don't know what does.
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