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  #21  
Old 06.11.2017, 13:53
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Arent Israel and the Saudis "secret" allies nowadays?
How is your post relevant to mine ?
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  #22  
Old 06.11.2017, 14:31
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Israel exporting SCUDs to Yemen ?
Israel builds copies of the Scud, but you need to read the next sentence.
Also why not. It would seem that they are becoming "allies of convenience" by all accounts.
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  #23  
Old 06.11.2017, 14:49
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Israel builds copies of the Scud, but you need to read the next sentence.
Also why not. It would seem that they are becoming "allies of convenience" by all accounts.
This is getting interesting: Any referrences for Israel building copies of SCUDs?
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  #24  
Old 06.11.2017, 21:33
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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This is getting interesting: Any referrences for Israel building copies of SCUDs?
Iranwatch: In 1993, in testimony before Congress, CIA Director James Woolsey warned that with the Nodong, North Korea could reach Japan, Iran could reach Israel, and Libya could reach U.S. bases and allied capitals in the Mediterranean. This new proliferation of missiles will threaten both American and allied security interests.

Possible new suppliers: Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and Syria

Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and Syria are each capable, in varying degrees, of supplying missiles and missile production technology to other countries. One possible incentive could be to recoup a portion of their investments. Another might be to gain political influence. Each of these exporters would face competition with North Korea and to some extent with Russia and China.


As far as I know the Jericho I SRBM was designed together with Dassault in the 1960ties and is based on the MD-620, it´s self a further development from the venerable V2 aka Scud. The best way to tell your rockets is to look at the main engine bell, if it has vanes in the exhaust, V2/Scud etc.= first and second generation, engine bell on gimbals, second generation and upwards.
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  #25  
Old 06.11.2017, 21:54
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Iranwatch: In 1993, in testimony before Congress, CIA Director James Woolsey warned that with the Nodong, North Korea could reach Japan, Iran could reach Israel, and Libya could reach U.S. bases and allied capitals in the Mediterranean. This new proliferation of missiles will threaten both American and allied security interests.

Possible new suppliers: Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and Syria

Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and Syria are each capable, in varying degrees, of supplying missiles and missile production technology to other countries. One possible incentive could be to recoup a portion of their investments. Another might be to gain political influence. Each of these exporters would face competition with North Korea and to some extent with Russia and China.


As far as I know the Jericho I SRBM was designed together with Dassault in the 1960ties and is based on the MD-620, it´s self a further development from the venerable V2 aka Scud. The best way to tell your rockets is to look at the main engine bell, if it has vanes in the exhaust, V2/Scud etc.= first and second generation, engine bell on gimbals, second generation and upwards.
V2 aka Scud?

You are the first person I've met in my life who thinks the V-2 is also known as Scud.

And I miss the reference to Israel building copies of the Scud
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  #26  
Old 06.11.2017, 21:58
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Iranwatch: In 1993, in testimony before Congress, CIA Director James Woolsey warned that with the Nodong, North Korea could reach Japan, Iran could reach Israel, and Libya could reach U.S. bases and allied capitals in the Mediterranean. This new proliferation of missiles will threaten both American and allied security interests.

Possible new suppliers: Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and Syria

Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, Pakistan and Syria are each capable, in varying degrees, of supplying missiles and missile production technology to other countries. One possible incentive could be to recoup a portion of their investments. Another might be to gain political influence. Each of these exporters would face competition with North Korea and to some extent with Russia and China.


As far as I know the Jericho I SRBM was designed together with Dassault in the 1960ties and is based on the MD-620, it´s self a further development from the venerable V2 aka Scud. The best way to tell your rockets is to look at the main engine bell, if it has vanes in the exhaust, V2/Scud etc.= first and second generation, engine bell on gimbals, second generation and upwards.
Do you know any rockets which can double back as fast as your posts ?

You claimed before that "Israel builds copies of the Scud", now it's rockets somehow based on the V2 (practically all rockets were up until the 60s at least).

While you are listing countries which have rockets for sale you can add France, China, Russia and Kazakhstan (I'm sure they having something lying around in a bunker somewhere) to the list of possible culprits. hang on - the UK can't be let off the hook so quickly - perfidious Albion and all that.
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  #27  
Old 07.11.2017, 06:00
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

Ok, You guys got me. Happy now?
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  #28  
Old 07.11.2017, 09:08
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

The Saudi reaction points to Iranian/Hizbullah Involvement - the motivation, means and methods support this.
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  #29  
Old 11.11.2017, 20:28
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Perhaps it's nothing but an awful lot has happened in the last few days to suggest it's not:

Lebanon PM has resigned blaming an assassination plot against him and accusing Iran and Hezbollah
11 princes, four sitting ministers and dozens of ex-ministers in Saudi are arrested
Saudis "intercept a missle"
Trump banging on about Iran threat
Trump urging Saudi Aramco listing in US
Maybe Loz has a point?

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A lunch in Beirut being hosted by prime minister Saad Hariri. Midway through the meal with the visiting French cultural minister, Françoise Nyssen, Hariri received a call and his demeanour changed.
He excused himself and left for the airport, without his aides.

Within hours Hariri, by then in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, had resigned his position, concluding his transition from Lebanese leader to Saudi envoy.
Source

You could not make this stuff up! (again )
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  #30  
Old 12.11.2017, 18:56
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

Well done Saudi - you managed to unite the Lebanese
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  #31  
Old 12.11.2017, 20:48
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Well done Saudi - you managed to unite the Lebanese
Trying to understand the complex ME machinations is a short path to madness
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  #32  
Old 12.11.2017, 20:51
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

Game of thrones without nudity
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  #33  
Old 13.11.2017, 07:27
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Game of thrones without nudity
The Saudi palace in chaos is certainly more entertaining. The fact a Scud even penetrated that deep into Saudi airspace is quite alarming for them, let alone with the finest weapons systems they still cannot defeat a guerrilla force. If the Houthis can ever get a land army together, KSA is in deep trouble short of unleashing weapons of mass destruction (which the Israelis can provide them). Stay tuned to this season of House of Saud.
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  #34  
Old 13.11.2017, 14:52
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

If the opportunity ever arises to give Iran a bloody nose, you can bet your last franc Israel and the Saudis will take it. Even if that means supplying weapons and technology to its regional rivals.


The Israeil and saudi governments have both, almost coincidentally, become united in the same, long-running fued with Iran. An alliance of inconvenience, if you will. In an ironic twist of fate, the Isreali and Saudi governments are as bad as each other. Juries still out on the Iranian government.


Its gotten to the point now where even if Iran was to go down a diplomatic road, Isreal and Saudi Arabia would drag it back to the armed conflict road. In all three cases, they need to provide their citizens with 'an enemy'. This helps all three governments mask their own corruption and failures in nationalistic and ethno-religious pride, which we know all too well can blind even the most astute observer.


Out of the three of them, im not sure who wants a war more , but it does seem like all three are happy fighting proxy wars at the moment.


Best thing for the world would be to put the armies and weapons of all three on a deserted pacific island, and let them spend years and billions killing each other there while the rest of the world moves on.
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  #35  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:07
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

Leaving aside the unhealthy obsession with Israel : Iran and the arab world have been fighting on since civilization began. maybe the Franco-Germany rivalry would be relevant parallel. It took millions of dead in many wars, forward looking leaders & external threat (russia) to bring France & Germany together.

The gulf region might do the same once oil loses it's importance. Without it the combined economies of Saudi & Iran will be the size of Rorschach. or maybe they'll continue fighting with stones (imported sticks will be too expensive)
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  #36  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:09
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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If the opportunity ever arises to give Iran a bloody nose, you can bet your last franc Israel and the Saudis will take it. Even if that means supplying weapons and technology to its regional rivals.


The Israeil and saudi governments have both, almost coincidentally, become united in the same, long-running fued with Iran. An alliance of inconvenience, if you will. In an ironic twist of fate, the Isreali and Saudi governments are as bad as each other. Juries still out on the Iranian government.


Its gotten to the point now where even if Iran was to go down a diplomatic road, Isreal and Saudi Arabia would drag it back to the armed conflict road. In all three cases, they need to provide their citizens with 'an enemy'. This helps all three governments mask their own corruption and failures in nationalistic and ethno-religious pride, which we know all too well can blind even the most astute observer.


Out of the three of them, im not sure who wants a war more , but it does seem like all three are happy fighting proxy wars at the moment.


Best thing for the world would be to put the armies and weapons of all three on a deserted pacific island, and let them spend years and billions killing each other there while the rest of the world moves on.
"Juries still out on the Iranian government." Hanging homosexuals from cranes should influence the Jury?
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  #37  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:24
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

You missed some relevant bits...
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Perhaps it's nothing but an awful lot has happened in the last few days to suggest it's not:

Lebanon PM has resigned blaming an assassination plot against him and accusing Iran and Hezbollah while being held captive in Riadh by the Saudis. Capturing a foreign head of state and making him "resign" on the TV with the goal to install his brother was a bit much even for the Trump administration...
11 princes, four sitting ministers and dozens of ex-ministers in Saudi are arrested
Saudis "intercept a missle"
Trump banging on about Iran threat
Trump urging Saudi Aramco listing in US
The long story short is that the middle east has two major powers fighting to be the dominant one in the region... and the Saudis have in the last 2-3 years been on the losing end: The whole IS desaster is based on radical Sunni Islam. Thousands of fighters who joined the IS were "educated" in Saudi financed centers around the world. Instead of weakening Hisbollah and Iran did the decline of IS if anything strenghten the Shia side, especially in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.
In the meantime is that conflict in Yemen turning from "annoying" into a humanitarian desaster possibly shining a light on a string of Saudi and US backed war crimes... and the Iran backed militias while losing the fights have gained the moral high ground.
So now is the new man in Saudi trying some new tactics. That Lebanon plot is extremely far out even for their standards... and let's be honest: this missile comes at a very convenien time to show the world just how evil those rebels are. If anything am I only surprised it wasn't headed for Mekka instead to get a more emotional response from the Muslim world...
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  #38  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:30
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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Leaving aside the unhealthy obsession with Israel : Iran and the arab world have been fighting on since civilization began. maybe the Franco-Germany rivalry would be relevant parallel. It took millions of dead in many wars, forward looking leaders & external threat (russia) to bring France & Germany together.

The gulf region might do the same once oil loses it's importance. Without it the combined economies of Saudi & Iran will be the size of Rorschach. or maybe they'll continue fighting with stones (imported sticks will be too expensive)
"Iran and the Arab world have been fighting on since civilization began" Quite recent times in the ME then!
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  #39  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:39
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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"Juries still out on the Iranian government." Hanging homosexuals from cranes should influence the Jury?
In terms of whether or not the Iranian government actually want to go to war, or if they can be talked down, the jury is indeed out.

In terms of whether they are nice people, they most certainly are not.

Another trait they share with their Saudi and Israeli counterparts.

They're all like peas in a horrible, twisted pod.
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  #40  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:41
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Re: WW3 Again? Heck this is getting boring.

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You missed some relevant bits...

The long story short is that the middle east has two major powers fighting to be the dominant one in the region... and the Saudis have in the last 2-3 years been on the losing end: The whole IS desaster is based on radical Sunni Islam. Thousands of fighters who joined the IS were "educated" in Saudi financed centers around the world. Instead of weakening Hisbollah and Iran did the decline of IS if anything strenghten the Shia side, especially in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.
In the meantime is that conflict in Yemen turning from "annoying" into a humanitarian desaster possibly shining a light on a string of Saudi and US backed war crimes... and the Iran backed militias while losing the fights have gained the moral high ground.
So now is the new man in Saudi trying some new tactics. That Lebanon plot is extremely far out even for their standards... and let's be honest: this missile comes at a very convenien time to show the world just how evil those rebels are. If anything am I only surprised it wasn't headed for Mekka instead to get a more emotional response from the Muslim world...
Not even Trump or Netanyaahoo are that stupid.
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