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  #221  
Old 22.11.2017, 10:47
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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I'm going to be picky here and say that 28% is nearer a quarter than a third
Its Wiki on two different pages it gives two different figures lets just split the difference eh!

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Banking



The Bank for International Settlements in Basel.


Main article: Banking in Switzerland
In 2003, the financial sector comprised an estimated 11.6% of Switzerland's GDP and employed approximately 196,000 people (136,000 of whom work in the banking sector); this represents about 5.6% of the total Swiss workforce.[41]
Swiss neutrality and national sovereignty, long recognized by foreign nations, have fostered a stable environment in which the banking sector was able to develop and thrive. Switzerland has maintained neutrality through both World Wars, is not a member of the European Union, and was not even a member of the United Nations until 2002.[42][43]
Currently an estimated 28 percent of all funds held outside the country of origin (sometimes called "offshore" funds) are kept in Switzerland.[44] In 2009 Swiss banks managed 5.4 trillion Swiss Francs.[45]
The Bank of International Settlements, an organization that facilitates cooperation among the world's central banks, is headquartered in the city of Basel. Founded in 1930, the BIS chose to locate in Switzerland because of the country's neutrality, which was important to an organization founded by countries that had been on both sides of World War I.[46]
In May 2006, foreign banks operating in Switzerland managed 870 billion Swiss francs worth of assets.[47] In 2014, this number was estimated to be 960 billion Swiss francs.[48]
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Switzerland is a prosperous nation with a per capita gross domestic product higher than that of most Western European nations. In addition, the value of the Swiss franc (CHF) has been relatively stable compared with that of other currencies.[17] In 2009, the financial sector comprised 11.6% of Switzerland's GDP and employed approximately 195,000 people (136,000 of whom work in the banking sector); this represents about 5.6% of the total Swiss workforce. Furthermore, Swiss banks employ an estimated 103,000 people abroad.[18]
Swiss neutrality and national sovereignty, long recognized by foreign nations, have fostered a stable environment in which the banking sector was able to develop and thrive. Switzerland has maintained neutrality through both World Wars, is not a member of the European Union, and was not a member of the United Nations until 2002.[19][20]
Currently an estimated one-third of all worldwide funds held outside their country of origin (sometimes called "offshore" funds) are kept in Switzerland. In 2001, Swiss banks managed US$2.6 trillion. The following year they handled US$400 billion less which has been attributed to both a bear market and stricter regulations on Swiss banking.[21] By 2007 this figure has risen to roughly US$2.7 trillion, a record.[22]
The Bank of International Settlements, an organization that facilitates cooperation among the world's central banks, is headquartered in the city of Basel. Founded in 1930, the BIS chose to locate in Switzerland because of the country's neutrality, which was important to an organization founded by countries that had been on both sides of World War I.[23]
The Foreign Banks in Switzerland Association reported that from the start of 2012 to the end of May 2013, the number of foreign-owned private banks operating in Switzerland declined from 145 to 129 due to the roll-back of bank secrecy regulations. Over the preceding five years, the foreign banks' assets under management declined by 25% to CHF870.7 billion Swiss francs ($921 billion) due to their clients paying taxes or withdrawing their money. Foreign banks in Switzerland saw their pretax margin decline from 38 basis points in 2007 to 20 basis points in 2012.[24]
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  #222  
Old 22.11.2017, 11:33
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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According to Wiki (pinch of salt of course). in 2003 banking was 11.6% of the GDP. I realise I should have stated that historically the Swiss economy has been bouyed up by foreign investment and banking. Also according to Wiki Switzerland holds 28% of all Off shore funds. Or figuratively speaking around one third of all secreted away cash. ;-)
Very little will be in cash! Why on earth would a rich person hold cash
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  #223  
Old 22.11.2017, 11:59
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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According to Wiki (pinch of salt of course). in 2003 banking was 11.6% of the GDP. I realise I should have stated that historically the Swiss economy has been bouyed up by foreign investment and banking. Also according to Wiki Switzerland holds 28% of all Off shore funds. Or figuratively speaking around one third of all secreted away cash. ;-)
offshore =/= illegal money
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  #224  
Old 22.11.2017, 12:15
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Very little will be in cash! Why on earth would a rich person hold cash
Where did anyone mention cash? Anyway we are straying from the original debate.

Of course all the money that sits in any offshore account will be accruing profit that can then be divested into other investments for both the depositer and the bank. And the sums that are being talked about are so monumentally huge that the interests and the profits are significant. Because nobody is offering these banking services for free! And just because tax is lower in an offshore tax haven doesnt mean that the offshore tax haven is not making massive profits.
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  #225  
Old 22.11.2017, 12:16
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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offshore =/= illegal money
Not necessarily illegal as is being argued here, but definitley in a grey area. Illegal would be the plundered loot of despots and dictators.
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  #226  
Old 22.11.2017, 12:48
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Ok, here you go:

offshore =/= illegal/illicit money
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  #227  
Old 22.11.2017, 13:16
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Where did anyone mention cash? Anyway we are straying from the original debate.

Of course all the money that sits in any offshore account will be accruing profit that can then be divested into other investments for both the depositer and the bank. And the sums that are being talked about are so monumentally huge that the interests and the profits are significant. Because nobody is offering these banking services for free! And just because tax is lower in an offshore tax haven doesnt mean that the offshore tax haven is not making massive profits.
You did & I quoted you.

Most of the Assets held will be bonds & equities held in custardy accounts.
A UK taxpayer will pay EXACTLY the same amount of tax, regardless of where funds are held.
UK is not a cheap place to invest funds, charges are high with stamp duties on transactions & high management feed due to compliance. US assets will always be cheaper to hold in the USA than the UK.

Contractors pretending to be 'independent' billing through limited companies but working from 9-5 in the clients office, day after day, week after week. Taking £6,000 salary & the rest as dividends making ZERO NI contributions but credit for NI. Looking more closely at these people will produce huge tax benefits, this is something it's not possible to do in CH!
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Old 22.11.2017, 13:25
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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You did & I quoted you.

Most of the Assets held will be bonds & equities held in custardy accounts.
Loving the typo...
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  #229  
Old 22.11.2017, 14:35
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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You did & I quoted you.

Most of the Assets held will be bonds & equities held in custardy accounts.
A UK taxpayer will pay EXACTLY the same amount of tax, regardless of where funds are held.
UK is not a cheap place to invest funds, charges are high with stamp duties on transactions & high management feed due to compliance.
US assets will always be cheaper to hold in the USA than the UK.

Contractors pretending to be 'independent' billing through limited companies but working from 9-5 in the clients office, day after day, week after week. Taking £6,000 salary & the rest as dividends making ZERO NI contributions but credit for NI. Looking more closely at these people will produce huge tax benefits, this is something it's not possible to do in CH!
I was speaking metaphorically about cash, monetary things, investment funds, whatever, if you want to be literal.

As I have bolded in your comment, are some of the reasons why wealthy people in the UK, are stashing their wealth offshore. It still doesn't make it right. Bonds, Equities and Private Jet registrations are all wealth, and no they are not all taxed accordingly by the UK, hence they sit in offshore tax havens.
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  #230  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:08
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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According to Wiki (pinch of salt of course). in 2003 banking was 11.6% of the GDP. I realise I should have stated that historically the Swiss economy has been bouyed up by foreign investment and banking. Also according to Wiki Switzerland holds 28% of all Off shore funds. Or figuratively speaking around one third of all secreted away cash. ;-)


That's the problem about discussing with lefties: they either deny or distort facts.

11.6% of the GDP accounts for the TOTAL FINANCIAL SECTOR, which includes insurance, mortgages, payments, etc. Wealth management/ private banking, which is what brings fees derived from the offshore funds, is just 3% of the GDP.
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  #231  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:27
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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That's the problem about discussing with lefties: they either deny or distort facts.

11.6% of the GDP accounts for the TOTAL FINANCIAL SECTOR, which includes insurance, mortgages, payments, etc. Wealth management/ private banking, which is what brings fees derived from the offshore funds, is just 3% of the GDP.


Between 1970 and the mid-1990s, all Swiss banks experienced an unprecedented upswing, both in their national and international operations. The Swiss financial centre grew to an extraordinary size, primarily through wealth management. With a market share of 27 %, it is still the world leader in cross-border business.


Source? http://www.swissbanking.org/en/banke...out-us/history
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  #232  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:47
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Between 1970 and the mid-1990s, all Swiss banks experienced an unprecedented upswing, both in their national and international operations. The Swiss financial centre grew to an extraordinary size, primarily through wealth management. With a market share of 27 %, it is still the world leader in cross-border business.


Source? http://www.swissbanking.org/en/banke...out-us/history
How does that refute Capo?
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  #233  
Old 22.11.2017, 15:51
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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it's all related, dear ...
I'm not so sure this is more brexit related (another thread)?

European Medicines Agency - Nought to do with tax evasion

European Banking Authority - Will have little effect on tax evasion as most of it is centred in the city of London which uses it's Channel Islands and British Overseas Islands such as BVI and Bermuda to shift wealth.

This means nothing will change for London, I'm just waiting for a "cutting the red tape" for UK banking sector post brexit. Effectively turning it into a BVI/Bermuda on the shores of the EU.
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  #234  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:02
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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How does that refute Capo?
That's the problem about discussing with lefties: they either deny or distort facts.

That quote above was correct 27/28% of global wealth management is held in Switzerland. This is confirmed by the Swiss Bankers Association it's not a leftie distorting facts.

"Wealth management"

https://qz.com/1012252/wealth-manage...he-ultra-rich/

Which is on subject for this thread and...

Around 25% of the wealth managers she interviewed endorsed what she describes as “libertarian anarchy,” which argues that all taxation is theft. This notion is even embedded in training materials for wealth managers, which Harrington said explain that “taxation is doubly immoral because it will be redistributed to the poor who then won’t learn initiative and will be deprived of the opportunity to bootstrap themselves up.”
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  #235  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:13
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/AJZ2017.pdf

Tax Evasion and Inequality

This paper attempts to estimate the size and distribution of tax evasion in rich countries. We combine random audits—the key source used to study tax evasion so far—with new micro-data leaked from large offshore financial institutions—HSBC Switzerland (“Swiss leaks”) and Mossack Fonseca (“Panama Papers”)—matched to population-wide wealth records in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. We find that tax evasion rises sharply with wealth, a phenomenon random audits fail to capture. On average about 3% of personal taxes are evaded in Scandinavia, but this figure rises to 25%–30% in the top 0.01% of the wealth distribution, a group that includes households with more than $45 million in net wealth. A simple model of the supply of tax evasion services can explain why evasion rises steeply with wealth. Taking tax evasion into account increases the rise in inequality seen in tax data since the 1970s markedly, highlighting the need to move beyond tax data to capture income and wealth at the top, even in countries where tax compliance is generally high. We also find that after reducing tax evasion—by using tax amnesties—tax evaders do not legally avoid taxes more. This result suggests that fighting tax evasion can be an effective way to collect more tax revenue from the very wealthy.

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  #236  
Old 22.11.2017, 16:27
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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That quote above was correct 27/28% of global wealth management is held in Switzerland. This is confirmed by the Swiss Bankers Association it's not a leftie distorting facts.
Where is that disputed?
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  #237  
Old 22.11.2017, 17:22
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

In the meantime - the NHS is given 350m for the whole winter (remember what THAT bus said - 350m a week).

Visited my elderly friend at the local hospital yesterday. She lives on her own after caring for her sick husband for years until his demise- no relatives to care for her at all. She broke her second femur last week- stuck outside on the patio of her council bungalow for nearly 2 hours until a neighbour heard her - and then had to wait nearly 2 hours for an ambulance- with her leg totally twisted round and in hypothermia! She was in tears yesterday as they wanted to send her home and she was terrified. She just phoned to say they sent her home this afternoon in tons of pain because they do not have anywhere for her to go for respite care and physio ... makes me feel sick
(and don't tell me it is not related...)
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  #238  
Old 22.11.2017, 18:16
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

It’s not related.
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Old 22.11.2017, 18:17
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

How naïve ...
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Old 22.11.2017, 18:38
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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In the meantime - the NHS is given 350m for the whole winter (remember what THAT bus said - 350m a week).

Visited my elderly friend at the local hospital yesterday. She lives on her own after caring for her sick husband for years until his demise- no relatives to care for her at all. She broke her second femur last week- stuck outside on the patio of her council bungalow for nearly 2 hours until a neighbour heard her - and then had to wait nearly 2 hours for an ambulance- with her leg totally twisted round and in hypothermia! She was in tears yesterday as they wanted to send her home and she was terrified. She just phoned to say they sent her home this afternoon in tons of pain because they do not have anywhere for her to go for respite care and physio ... makes me feel sick
(and don't tell me it is not related...)
The NHS is given an EXTRA 350million, just for this year. There is only a month and a bit left in this year.
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