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  #101  
Old 09.11.2017, 12:05
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

What's (the definition of) unearned income?
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  #102  
Old 09.11.2017, 19:01
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Yummilicious.

Revealed: scheme that let Gary Lineker avoid tax on Barbados home
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  #103  
Old 09.11.2017, 19:23
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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What's (the definition of) unearned income?
Income that is not from a job where social costs have been paid. It's historical ended by Margret Thatcher in 1979.
Avoid LOCAL tax, UK CGT would still be payable for a UK resident, so hardly a big deal.
Same idea used by used by Brits to buy French property to avoid the same tax on a sale & by using a UK company it does not fall under French forced inheritance rules. Plenty of UK property is also acquired through properties for the same reason.........
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  #104  
Old 09.11.2017, 19:44
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

If you are in any lingering doubt as to the real reason BREXIT is happening, take a few moments to read this.

https://nolanjazimreg.wordpress.com/...u-mr-farage-…/

"Mr Cameron announced the EU referendum, immediately after the final draft of EU’s Anti Tax Avoidance Directivewas completed.

Once the referendum was announced, to protect their offshore accounts and trusts, wealthy British individuals with offshore accounts and trusts, ignited their propaganda engines to convince the British people that the EU is a demon, a dictatorship, a new world order instrument and so on.

Daily Mail, Express, The Telegraph and The Sun were all campaigning to leave the EU. Coincidentally, they are all owned by individuals who avoid paying their taxes in the UK.

Daily Express’ Owner Tax Profile

“New Express owner Richard Desmond’s huge publishing and TV sex empire has paid just £200,000 in corporation tax since it was established eight years ago, The Observer can reveal… His two main holding companies – Northern & Shell Group Ltd and Portland Investments Ltd – are owned by trusts in Guernsey, the Channel Islands tax haven.”

https://www.theguardian.com/…/pressa...ng.dailyexpre…

Daily Mail’s Owner Tax Profile

“At other times Rothermere makes a point of being elusive and mysterious. He enjoys telephoning an editor, whom he has spoken to only the day before from Paris, and announcing: ‘I’m ringing you from the Goldener Hirsch in Salzburg,’ or ‘I’m in Tokyo at the Imperial.’ Sonia Sinclair remembers sitting next to Rothermere at a party for Imelda Marcos at the Philippines embassy. ‘Vere turned to me towards the end of dinner and said: ‘I’m leaving this country tomorrow for good. It’s absolutely essential, otherwise I’ll be virtually ruined by taxation, and I feel terribly strongly about keeping the empire together.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/…/l…/2012/panor...about-tax.html

The Telegraph’s Owners Tax Profile

“The Ritz Hotel, where suites cost up to £3,600 a night, has paid no corporation tax in the UK since is was taken over by the billionaire Barclay twins 17 years ago.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/…/the-ritz-h...d-corporation…

The Sun’s Owner Tax Profile

“Rupert Murdoch’s media conglomerate News Corp. lobbied in favor of the new Panama free trade pact, according to federal lobbying disclosure forms — a pact that will make it more difficult for the U.S. government to crack down on Panama-related tax abuses. Panama is a notorious tax haven, and News Corp. also operates a subsidiary there. The company’s flagship American news outlets — The Wall Street Journal and Fox News — reported extensively on the three free trade deals passed by Congress last week without disclosing the parent firm’s lobbying activity.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/rupe...-corporate-ta…

If UK remained in the EU, the British government would have to implement the EU’s Anti Tax Avoidance Directive, and by the year 2019, Richard Desmond, Lord Rothermere, Barclay brothers and Rupert Murdoch, owners of the pro-Brexit press would either start paying taxes to UK’s tax authorities or foreclose their businesses.

Therefore, to protect their tax-free assets from EU’s Anti Tax Avoidance Directive, the owners of these tabloid newspapers and other wealthy tax-avoiders had no other option, but to brainwash British people to vote in favour of leaving the EU.

Our great “patriot”, Mr Farage also tried to avoid paying his taxes by opening an offshore trust fund?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/…/ukip-leade...rage-admits-1….

Unlike Britain’s rich and powerful tax-evading individuals, whose businesses will continue to enjoy tax havens free from EU regulations, Farage’s little people will not reap any benefits from leaving the EU.

In April 2015, the owner of the Sunday Express, the Daily Star and OK! magazine, Richard Desmond donated £1.3m to UKIP, claiming:

“I firmly believe in Ukip. It’s a party for good, ordinary British people. It is not run by elitists.”

http://www.express.co.uk/…/Express-N...Chairman-Rich…

If Mr Desmond and other wealthy Brexit campaigners truly respected the good, ordinary British people, they would pay their taxes and spare them from the ongoing austerity measures, wouldn’t they?"
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  #105  
Old 09.11.2017, 21:07
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Ever heard the daft argument given to vegetarians about the vegetables screaming in pain when pulled out of the ground?

Seems like the 'oh but you have ISA so you do just the same' is a well rehearsed one. BTW, you cannot purchase ISAs if you are resident abroad.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...tax-avoidance/


'ISAs are not tax avoidance

Posted on November 8 2017

It would seem that the tax abuse industry has found a new line to defend its behaviour. I encountered this when speaking on the Jeremy Vine show yesterday, and it has been commonplace elsewhere. It is to claim that the use of ISAs is tax avoidance.

This is absurd. ISAs are Individual Savings Accounts. They are a mechanism available to any UK based taxpayer. Using them a person can save a set limit per annum in a designated account. The income and gain from those savings are then tax free. '


Edited, there, there duckie- spoon.

Last edited by Odile; 09.11.2017 at 23:07.
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  #106  
Old 09.11.2017, 21:18
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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I encountered this when speaking on the Jeremy Vine show yesterday
You were on the Jeremy Vine show yesterday?

How do I get an invite?
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  #107  
Old 09.11.2017, 21:54
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

no idea-as I am not Richard Murphy - but been on Question Time a couple of times
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  #108  
Old 09.11.2017, 21:55
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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no idea-as I am not Richard Murphy - but been on Question Time a couple of times
Who's Richard Murphy?
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  #109  
Old 09.11.2017, 22:26
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

why not read links clearly provided
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  #110  
Old 09.11.2017, 22:38
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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no idea-as I am not Richard Murphy - but been on Question Time a couple of times
The guest vetting measures were clearly far less strict in 1954 than nowadays.
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  #111  
Old 09.11.2017, 22:49
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Obviously, I move to UK in 1970 - first time on QT was in Nottingham- late 80s I'd say. I think being Swiss clinched it- they don't get many requests from Swiss on QT- apparently.
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  #112  
Old 09.11.2017, 23:02
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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why not read links clearly provided
Why not make it clearer which words are your own and which are copy-pasted from random blogs on the internet?
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  #113  
Old 09.11.2017, 23:10
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Edited, just for you. I thought it was quite clear, but- and this is not from a 'random blog'.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1962617&type=3
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  #114  
Old 09.11.2017, 23:11
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Edited, just for you. I thought it was quite clear, but- and this is not from a 'random blog'.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1962617&type=3
Who's Peter Roberts?
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  #115  
Old 09.11.2017, 23:12
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Ever heard the daft argument given to vegetarians about the vegetables screaming in pain when pulled out of the ground?

Seems like the 'oh but you have ISA so you do just the same' is a well rehearsed one. BTW, you cannot purchase ISAs if you are resident abroad.


ISAs are not tax avoidance
It really, really, really, pains me to disagree with Odile. (Sorry!)

But actually, the only difference is the price of entry, the method of buying, and the value of the tax you don't have to pay.
  • You or I would find it very hard to set up an ISA due to all the regulations. So we buy one from a provider who has done all that work for us and offers the best deal.
  • You can buy an ISA if you are resident abroad, you just have to meet the appropriate UK residency conditions and rules that allow it. (eg. I still meet them, yet I work in CH during the week. Other people think I'm mad to do that much travelling. No, I don't just do it so I can have an ISA - but I might maybe if it was really really worth it)
  • ISAs have limits set in law of how/where/what you can invest and what tax you save. You take advantage as best you can.
It has been said "the difference between men and boys is the value of their toys". That applies here.
  • It's hard to set up the finance for a plane. So you buy it from the naughty accountants and banks that have done all the work to find the best place and offer the best deal.
  • You still have to meet the appropriate residence conditions and rules that allow it to be bought that way.
  • The tax rules allowed by the relevant governments have limits as to how/where/what you can invest and what tax you save. You take advantage as best you can.
Never forget - there was a time when ordinary savers could not save tax free. The introduction of TESSAs then PEPs and ISAs changed all that for those of modest wealth; now we can all benefit.



Conversely, if we don't like what the super rich get up to, it is up to us to just change the rules and make it illegal. But we should not be surprised if they then go off and find somewhere that it is not illegal (or is actually positively encouraged) and pay the price of entry there instead...


Regards




Ian
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  #116  
Old 09.11.2017, 23:52
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Great post Ian - and you are totally free to disagree without apologising.
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  #117  
Old 10.11.2017, 11:22
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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I am not ignoring the facts. I simply know how he paid for that economic stimulation... simply put: He spent the money of the future generation to artificially create unsustainable jobs. I know this cause Helmut Kohl did the exact same in Germany at the same time. And then do conservatives always claim that left wing politicians cannot deal with money:

I don't understand you. Conservatives are mostly the ones against economic stimulation... Also, comparing Kohl with Reagan is a bit too far, don't you think? And Kohl had no choice but to take a big risk. However, after the recession of the late 90s/2000s it brilliantly paid-off: GDP per capita of unified Germany grew faster and it became the least indebted of the biggest European economies. So Kohl was right.

And I don't reckon left wing politicians doing any better while "dealing with money".

Last edited by Capo; 10.11.2017 at 11:49.
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  #118  
Old 10.11.2017, 11:47
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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What a load of bullshit.

1981-82 GDP slipped by 2%, that's all. Of course anything but desirable but lightyears from what you claim things to have been.
Ah, ok, I wrote a lot of bullshit? Please, think a bit before you vomit on the keyboard and make yourself look stupid. The USA faced three recessions from 1970 and the 1982 one was the worse, with unemployment reaching almost 11%, inflation more than 13%, interest rates at 21%, and poverty rate in an all time high. But Reagan economics contributed to an incredible economic recovery and the USA grew 7 years in a row, with unemployment falling to 5.5%.




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The BEA numbers in chained dollars for 1977-1987:
5,937.0
6,267.2
6,466.2
6,450.4 [1980]
6,617.7
6,491.3 [1982]
6,792.0
7,285.0
7,593.8
7,860.5
8,132.6


For 2005 Trump paid $38mln in federal income taxes, mostly due to alternative minimum tax (AMT). Without the AMT his bill would have been $5.3mln only.

No wonder he wants to do away with AMT!

And you claim it's all for the good of the people
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  #119  
Old 10.11.2017, 16:10
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Ah, ok, I wrote a lot of bullshit? Please, think a bit before you vomit on the keyboard and make yourself look stupid. The USA faced three recessions from 1970 and the 1982 one was the worse, with unemployment reaching almost 11%, inflation more than 13%, interest rates at 21%, and poverty rate in an all time high. But Reagan economics contributed to an incredible economic recovery and the USA grew 7 years in a row, with unemployment falling to 5.5%.
Ah yes the foundation of neoliberal economics.

This is why we are where we are huge credit bubbles and massive crashes. Deregulating the banking industry to sell massive bunches of steaming turd CDO's to unsuspecting investors and pension funds.

Meanwhile QE for banks via taxpayer money is the socialising of capitalist's debts. In a true free market poorly performing companies including banks MUST fail.

It's all worked out wonderfully for those that managed to get their crackpot economic ideas in circa 1980.

The 1970's recession was due to an oil crisis/embargo which jacked up oil costs + Nixon effectively devaluing the USD through removal of the gold standard (which stopped unlimited creation of FIAT money)

In 1979 a second oil shock (Iranian revolution) in the US created high inflation and the federal reserve jacked up interest rates to stop the inflation problem which then dumped people on to the streets.

BOTH shocks were caused by an over-reliance on oil in the US nothing to do with neoliberal "Reagan" economics as the wonderful saviour to all problems and neither were solved by deregulation (Reagan cutting the red tape remember that one?) and turning a blind eye to masses of tax avoidance.

What is happening today is theft from taxpayers services on a unprecedented scale, avoidance of tax steals from roads, hospitals, education, police, fire services and so on. Justify that if you will, but for me its morally corrupt.

I have nothing against hard working business owners and they should enjoy their success.

I'd go further and say I'd execute (thinking a guillotine would be appropriate) tax avoiders in the town square to get the message across these are "undesirable" actions for all members of society.

Pay your tax you cretins. Otherwise sooner rather than later, the way it's going a large proportion of society will have zero option but to come at you with pitchforks and kitchen knives.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...005-story.html

Three decades of data prove that tax cuts for the wealthy do not “trickle down” to working people or grow the overall economy. Since the Reagan era, Republicans have prescribed cuts for rich people and corporations as a cure-all. But every time they put their theory into practice, the rich just get richer and everyone else gets left behind. When such cuts drain the government of the revenue it needs to pay for essential services like public education, Medicare and Social Security, Republicans then seize the opportunity to shrink those programs.
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  #120  
Old 11.11.2017, 19:01
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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It really, really, really, pains me to disagree with Odile. (Sorry!)

But actually, the only difference is the price of entry, the method of buying, and the value of the tax you don't have to pay.
  • You or I would find it very hard to set up an ISA due to all the regulations. So we buy one from a provider who has done all that work for us and offers the best deal.
  • You can buy an ISA if you are resident abroad, you just have to meet the appropriate UK residency conditions and rules that allow it. (eg. I still meet them, yet I work in CH during the week. Other people think I'm mad to do that much travelling. No, I don't just do it so I can have an ISA - but I might maybe if it was really really worth it)
  • ISAs have limits set in law of how/where/what you can invest and what tax you save. You take advantage as best you can.
It has been said "the difference between men and boys is the value of their toys". That applies here.
  • It's hard to set up the finance for a plane. So you buy it from the naughty accountants and banks that have done all the work to find the best place and offer the best deal.
  • You still have to meet the appropriate residence conditions and rules that allow it to be bought that way.
  • The tax rules allowed by the relevant governments have limits as to how/where/what you can invest and what tax you save. You take advantage as best you can.
Never forget - there was a time when ordinary savers could not save tax free. The introduction of TESSAs then PEPs and ISAs changed all that for those of modest wealth; now we can all benefit.



Conversely, if we don't like what the super rich get up to, it is up to us to just change the rules and make it illegal. But we should not be surprised if they then go off and find somewhere that it is not illegal (or is actually positively encouraged) and pay the price of entry there instead...


Regards




Ian
Its a bit pointless to compare an ISA of 3000 pounds per year (in 60 years it would be equivalent to a couple of hundred grand) to somebody getting 3 million back on a plane they own and use themselves but lied about it. The super rich are are citizens of somewhere and have holdings and earnings generated in those countries, but syphon the money offshore into murky ghost or shell businesses in order to deliberately avoid paying tax on that money is a tad hypocritical if they claim to contribute back into society. Bono is a huge hypocrite regarding global poverty when he deliberately avoids paying his tax, it nullifies his arguments and has been extremely counter productive to the issue of global poverty. The general public would change the law if it could but that is usually left to the politicians and civil servants who often have a vested personal interest in maintaining that status quo. Protesting often achieves very little in the end, look at how the Occupy protests fizzled out, much to the relief of the banking world. I think the latest evaluation of offshore tax avoidance in the UK shows that 300 billion in tax is going unpaid. That would be the equivelent of the 350 million a week promised to the NHS from the Brexiteers and would pay for the NHS for 16 years.
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