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  #121  
Old 12.11.2017, 01:06
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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The general public would change the law if it could but that is usually left to the politicians and civil servants who often have a vested personal interest in maintaining that status quo.
You may think so but interestingly enough they don't, at least not the Swiss.

Three years ago the the elimination of "Pauschalbesteuerung", taxation based on estimated housing costs, got refused by population. Or phrased the other way round, the population voted to keep allowing that kind of taxation. It offers foreigners without income from work generated in Switzerland an easy and low-tax solution that's based on their (assumed, in some cases I believe) housing costs.
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  #122  
Old 12.11.2017, 11:23
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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You may think so but interestingly enough they don't, at least not the Swiss.

Three years ago the the elimination of "Pauschalbesteuerung", taxation based on estimated housing costs, got refused by population. Or phrased the other way round, the population voted to keep allowing that kind of taxation. It offers foreigners without income from work generated in Switzerland an easy and low-tax solution that's based on their (assumed, in some cases I believe) housing costs.
But the UK is not Switzerland. The majority in the UK would probably, if given the choice of a referendum on how the rich pay tax want to see reform. The general population doesn't like to feel it is paying more taxes then the wealthy. But in Switzerland the population enjoys the status quo, it suits the majority. There are often referendums here regarding salary caps and taxation and they are usually voted in favour of maintaining the current options. They don't like change here.
So the population of Switzerland voted to continue to allow foreigners living in Switzerland a low tax option (naturally its an option based on how wealthy an individual is to be allowed to live here in Switzerland in the first place). I am not sure exactly how just being able to reside in Switzerland allows someone to avoid tax on income generated in their countries of origin.
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  #123  
Old 12.11.2017, 14:52
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

I don't have a private jet or massive stashes of assets somewhere (unfortunately! ), but I can tell you that, come time to file my 2017 tax return, I foresee bigger than usual charity donations, a tax-efficient college savings fund, health savings accounts, mortgage deductions, etc. Who knows, maybe I'll even invest in my friend's food truck business as a partner. Discounted tacos and pass-through startup losses, what's not to like?

All legitimate, all legal, because I am entitled to do with my money as I please. I will pay what I owe, but not a cent more. Selfish? Perhaps. The least of my taxpayer money supporting the Trump administration, the better. I suspect a lot of people who cry wolf with "rich individuals" and "evil corporations" feel exactly the same way about their tax obligations, but just don't admit it and beat around the bushes.

Just my 2 cc.
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  #124  
Old 12.11.2017, 15:28
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

People seem to miss the point about how tax avoidance works. Big firms and mega rich individuals are fleecing society, yes the do pay more tax overall then an individual or they sometimes do generate a lot of employment that results in their employees paying tax. However on balance and in relation to the amount an average person earns and the amount they pay in tax, those firms and mega rich individuals are paying much lower percentages on their incomes or profits. It really is not fair. Especially when that money could be going back into social services, healthcare and education. It is simple really.

Of course we all want to find a way to pay less, its just that our combined less (those little declarations you make and can get away with) are infinitesimal compared to the 100s of billions being lost from the general economy. This money doesn't go back into circulation it is removed.

Those little conceded tax returns are a small gift from the government and actually mean very little, and if you get caught out lying about your income you stand to face quite high penalties.

Just a thought.

I do wonder why so many are in defence of the system.
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  #125  
Old 12.11.2017, 15:30
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

So it's a bit like shopping in France or Germany, then?
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  #126  
Old 12.11.2017, 16:11
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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So it's a bit like shopping in France or Germany, then?
Not exactly the same. Why do you think they get upset when you bring 12kg of fillet or twelve litres of scotch. Thing is we are not talking about remaining within the customs limits for Switzerland. Its more like the fella with a van that used to go across on the ferry and come back with 20'000 fags and 2000 litres of spirits, except that the customs guy gives a little nod and a wink and accepts the backhander.

In the case of these revelations, its the UK government that is doing the winking, naturally its offshore protectorates of the UK so they are all getting something. Just not the places or people where the money is being generated, society in general is losing out. It might not bother you, but somewhere some handicapped kid is deprived of a place in care, or someone skilled who was made redundant is getting the Nth degree over whether they are eligible to claim benefit or that they should work for peanuts. And all the while those mega firms rape the environment or pay zero hours and still avoid paying their taxes. The loopholes that facilitate private and wealthy individuals to do this are also the same loopholes that mega corporations are using. It needs to stop. And it can be argued that these wealthy people will all leave and these business will also leave. But Britain is screwed because they are all going to leave come next year anyway.
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  #127  
Old 12.11.2017, 21:24
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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The majority in the UK would probably, if given the choice of a referendum on how the rich pay tax want to see reform. The general population doesn't like to feel it is paying more taxes then the wealthy.
"The people would vote for more of other peoples money".

Nice of you to finally come out as a communist.
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  #128  
Old 12.11.2017, 22:02
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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"The people would vote for more of other peoples money".

Nice of you to finally come out as a communist.
Same goes for a lot of countries.

Take the Netherlands, "we should tax the rich" and then they wonder why so many of them flee to Belgium or elsewhere so the net result might even be lower... Imho to many people only think short term and their own wallet, Switzerland is to me an exception where a large crowd can look beyond their own wallet on short term and oversee the long term effects.
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  #129  
Old 13.11.2017, 14:11
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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"The people would vote for more of other peoples money".

Nice of you to finally come out as a communist.
Lol, you don't get it do you?

Society would benefit from the money that is being technically but legally stolen. I am not saying we don't need a competitive market or that Capitalism is terrible, just that certain aspects of our system are wrong and need to be sorted.

So I hate to disappoint you Loz, but I am neither a Socialist nor a Marxist.

Last edited by TobiasM; 13.11.2017 at 15:02.
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  #130  
Old 13.11.2017, 15:16
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

Had I been a UK resident rather than worked in CH for 20 years, my entire stock portfolio would have been in PEPS/ISA's or Property, I would have zero tax liability whatsoever if I lived in the UK today.

Since Mrs Thatcher arrival, the UK has been tax friendly to everybody who worked, not just the rich.

The CGT exemption for primary residence's has sheltered more tax over the last 40 years than anything else, over 60% of the population have benefited.

It's all tax avoidance & all totally legal
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  #131  
Old 13.11.2017, 16:07
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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In the case of these revelations, its the UK government that is doing the winking, naturally its offshore protectorates of the UK so they are all getting something.
I predict they won't leave for this very reason, easy access to stash huge volumes of cash offshore with little comeback. As with everything else they are greedy and want their cake and more. They'll settle for the offshoring via the city of London as always over moving to the EU on mass.
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  #132  
Old 13.11.2017, 16:14
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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People seem to miss the point about how tax avoidance works. Big firms and mega rich individuals are fleecing society, yes the do pay more tax overall then an individual or they sometimes do generate a lot of employment that results in their employees paying tax. However on balance and in relation to the amount an average person earns and the amount they pay in tax, those firms and mega rich individuals are paying much lower percentages on their incomes or profits. It really is not fair. Especially when that money could be going back into social services, healthcare and education. It is simple really.

Of course we all want to find a way to pay less, its just that our combined less (those little declarations you make and can get away with) are infinitesimal compared to the 100s of billions being lost from the general economy. This money doesn't go back into circulation it is removed.

Those little conceded tax returns are a small gift from the government and actually mean very little, and if you get caught out lying about your income you stand to face quite high penalties.

Just a thought.

I do wonder why so many are in defence of the system.
I'd question this relationship between corporate tax breaks and job creation another "woo" comment that seems to be an undeniable truth.

Many other large American corporations have also been playing the tax break and loophole game. Their huge tax savings have enriched executives but not created significant numbers of new jobs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/o...cuts-jobs.html
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  #133  
Old 13.11.2017, 16:58
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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So it's a bit like shopping in France or Germany, then?
I'd very much like to some detailed studies on that as I'm not sure the basic tenet ("buying abroad is harmful to the local economy") holds. Bear with me:

Domestic retail has a margin of about 25-30% on the sales price (excluding VAT), thus some 70% are paid to the supplier. For imported goods the full 70% go abroad, are exported if you will.

Body care and cosmetics (to take an admittedly extreme case) often cost double or triple here. So the options (and consequence) to buy that favourite Adidas deo are
a) customer buys abroad, the full retail price of €2 (2.20CHF) is exported
b) customer buys domestically, the deo sells for 5CHF so the retailer pays some 3.50 to the foreign supplier

So by buying abroad the customer keeps 2.80CHF in the country rather than the 1.50CHF that make up the retailer's margin. So not only does the customer profit by buying directly abroad, but the economy as well, provided of course he uses the savings on domestically produced stuff.

Now, this is of course trivial example, and the differences aren't that high for all product groups, it's why I'd love to see some serious in-depth studies on the topic. It does show though that there may be much more to it than immediately meets the eye.
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  #134  
Old 13.11.2017, 21:25
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

In the UK there is an inheritance tax exemption assuming your UK domiciled. that you can give an unlimited amount to your wife / husband TAX FREE.
Most couples do this rather than give to their children at their partners expense. Giving to your Children is a legal requirement in most of Europe.
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  #135  
Old 13.11.2017, 23:30
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Society would benefit from the money that is being technically but legally stolen.
So you agree that tax is theft but you think theft is a good thing ??

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So I hate to disappoint you Loz, but I am neither a Socialist nor a Marxist.
From the above it seems that you favour kleptocracy as a form of government. Do you agree with Robert Mugabe's policies by any chance ??
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  #136  
Old 14.11.2017, 09:35
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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So you agree that tax is theft but you think theft is a good thing ??


From the above it seems that you favour kleptocracy as a form of government. Do you agree with Robert Mugabe's policies by any chance ??
Parnell have you ever contributed anything of value to this forum, or are you just a prize plumb?
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  #137  
Old 14.11.2017, 09:38
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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In the UK there is an inheritance tax exemption assuming your UK domiciled. that you can give an unlimited amount to your wife / husband TAX FREE.
Most couples do this rather than give to their children at their partners expense. Giving to your Children is a legal requirement in most of Europe.
I have never said I agree with all forms of taxation either!
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  #138  
Old 14.11.2017, 14:19
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Parnell have you ever contributed anything of value to this forum, or are you just a prize plumb?
What's next ?? More threats of violence from your corner - you don't seem to be much good at this argumentation stuff...

Please stick to forum rules - lest the mods of this forum start to apply the rules consistently.
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  #139  
Old 14.11.2017, 16:29
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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What's next ?? More threats of violence from your corner - you don't seem to be much good at this argumentation stuff...

Please stick to forum rules - lest the mods of this forum start to apply the rules consistently.
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  #140  
Old 14.11.2017, 16:47
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Re: Paradise Papers, buckle up Private jet owners it's going to get bumpy

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Parnell have you ever contributed anything of value to this forum, or are you just a prize plumb?

Bit uncalled for, that. Plums are delicious.


Parnell seems very bitter.
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