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Old 12.01.2018, 08:16
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Kodakcoin

Uuuugh! Just felt a disturbance in the force. The world of cryptocurrency has gotten another contender.
Kodak is issuing the Kodakcoin for licensing rights for pictures.

https://kodakcoin.com/

Companies making their own money, can you imagine apart from Kodakcoin perhaps the Agfabit? Or I-tunes where you can only pay with the Appletaler at an unfortunate € to AT exchange rate but with a great discount for the Renminbi?Petrol station chains where you have to use their currency. A world where goods are not freely traded between buyer and seller with costs not set by market forces but dictated by boardroom policies.
No wonder Wallstreet fainted at the thought.
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Old 12.01.2018, 08:37
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Re: Kodakcoin

Far from fainting, Wall Street loved the thought. Kodak shares went through the roof—something like +130%, iirc.

I'm going to float a new company called Bitblockchaincoin.com. See you on my personal Caribbean island this summer.
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Old 12.01.2018, 08:43
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Re: Kodakcoin

with all these currencies we are basically going back 15 centuries.
at least coins were made of gold at that time and had some intrinsic value.
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Old 12.01.2018, 09:54
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Re: Kodakcoin

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See you on my personal Caribbean island this summer.
You'll be there regardless
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Old 12.01.2018, 10:18
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Re: Kodakcoin

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with all these currencies we are basically going back 15 centuries.
at least coins were made of gold at that time and had some intrinsic value.
Arguable. What intrinsic value does a coin comprising an ounce of gold have? What would you do with that ounce of gold, if markets collapse and no-one recognises the coin as currency any more? Would you eat it, when you can't exchange it for bread? Fill your car's tank with it when you can't use the coin to buy fuel?

Maybe you'd apply one of its industrial uses, perhaps doing some home dentistry or plating some electronic components in your garage/hobby room?

Cryptocurrencies have about the same intrinsic value as fiat currencies (most of which are paper and/or plastic, or metal alloys that have virtually no intrinsic value).
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Old 12.01.2018, 11:28
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Re: Kodakcoin

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Far from fainting, Wall Street loved the thought. Kodak shares went through the roof—something like +130%, iirc.

I'm going to float a new company called Bitblockchaincoin.com. See you on my personal Caribbean island this summer.
Fainting as in all the blood rushed from Wallstreets brain into Wallstreets penis.
I have always seen being rich with cryptocurrencies like being rich in Monopoly.
By the way... anybody wanna invest in the Slammergroschen?
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Old 12.01.2018, 11:40
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Re: Kodakcoin

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I have always seen being rich with cryptocurrencies like being rich in Monopoly.
I see it as being a geek currency for IT pros and basement dwelling gamers, and it's precisely this that precludes it from being universal.

One of my OH's former colleagues recently bought a new 4x4 with the proceeds from his bitcoin mining, but it cost him a lot of IT equipment and many hours in the basement.
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Old 12.01.2018, 12:00
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Re: Kodakcoin

In fact, reading some of their projects it appears to be massively great from a technical and business point of view, for the actual photographs.

Thanks to the smart contracts in the block chain, the copyrights and licences are easily available for all. Also, all the accounting is there, no need for other tools, licences...

In short it does remove tons of intermediates and should ensure decent share for the actual authors and not the intermediates who will intercept most goods/profits (think music industry...).

It also appears to go a bit beyond the blockchain by providing a "market" where one can actuall swap these kodakone cryptocurrency for real goods or services. Some other cryptocurrencies have started that, it seems good idea.

Of course, I do not know how it will be welcomed in terms of "market valuation of that cryptocurrency" but their project appears to be fairly good.

Almost revolutionnary again!
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Old 12.01.2018, 12:11
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Re: Kodakcoin

I have a very strong feeling of deja vu from around 2000, when exactly the same thing was happening to stocks which could somehow be presented as internet-near.
I am simply bemused by it all and have no positions in cryptocurrencies.
Two main things concern me. One. Cryptocurrencies expose the fact that a lot of the things that have value attributed to them suddenly can have zero value. The example of fiat currencies already quoted, but then usually there is a government standing behind these who will make some efforts to sustain their value.
Two. That when the crash comes, what it will take with it? Will it be like Enron, a multi-billion dollar enterprise which disappeared with hardly anyone (apart from the shareholders, employees, pensioners and auditor) noticing. Or will it be the cause of, and/or pretext for, strong financial restrictions like mopping up the cash from all the quantitative easing and some sort global recession. And, following on, how do I position myself in advance for all this ?
Of course, the underlying blockchain technologies, of which cryptocurrencies are only one example, will survive assuming there is no quantum leap in computing power or mathematical attack on the hash functions is found.
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:10
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Re: Kodakcoin

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I see it as being a geek currency for IT pros and basement dwelling gamers, and it's precisely this that precludes it from being universal.

One of my OH's former colleagues recently bought a new 4x4 with the proceeds from his bitcoin mining, but it cost him a lot of IT equipment and many hours in the basement.
Cryptos aren't very "basement dwelling" when they're hitting the international media headlines every day!

You don't have to work at the Royal Mint to acquire pounds sterling, and you don't have to mine Bitcoin to build a stash. Anyone who bought Ether or Bitcoin two months or more ago on an exchange has more than doubled their money.
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:30
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Re: Kodakcoin

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with all these currencies we are basically going back 15 centuries.
at least coins were made of gold at that time and had some intrinsic value.
Are we back here again? These arguments were all thrashed out in extensive EF threads from 2013.

The intrinsic value of cryptocoins (particularly those with large network effects like bitcoin) is that they're automated banks (i.e. the token comes along with a pre-existing security and transactional infrastructure). Whether you think an automated bank is worth 250 billion dollars is, of course, another issue.
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:47
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Re: Kodakcoin

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Cryptos aren't very "basement dwelling" when they're hitting the international media headlines every day!
That's now and relatively recent. When this all kicked off, the friends who I heard talking about their investments, mining, wallets, etc...had one thing in common, and that was losing years of their life to 'WoW'. But back to now...

Kodak is not a name that would peak my interest. Reuters, Magnum, Getty however...that would be interesting.
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Old 12.01.2018, 14:30
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Re: Kodakcoin

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That's now and relatively recent. When this all kicked off, the friends who I heard talking about their investments, mining, wallets, etc...had one thing in common, and that was losing years of their life to 'WoW'. But back to now...

Kodak is not a name that would peak my interest. Reuters, Magnum, Getty however...that would be interesting.
What about facebook? Would that name interest you? Zuckerberg is rumoured to be looking into introducing an alt-coin for FB.
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Old 12.01.2018, 14:56
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Re: Kodakcoin

No, it wouldn't despite how their shares fared.
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Old 12.01.2018, 15:00
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Re: Kodakcoin

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In fact, reading some of their projects it appears to be massively great from a technical and business point of view, for the actual photographs...
I also thought it was interesting because of the potential niche. Even amateur photographers can have their work stolen off IG, etc. and unless they spot where it's been used it's hard to know it was even stolen. Whether the cryptocurrency gains any steam remains to be seen.
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Old 12.01.2018, 15:07
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Re: Kodakcoin

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In fact, reading some of their projects it appears to be massively great from a technical and business point of view, for the actual photographs.

Thanks to the smart contracts in the block chain, the copyrights and licences are easily available for all. Also, all the accounting is there, no need for other tools, licences...

In short it does remove tons of intermediates and should ensure decent share for the actual authors and not the intermediates who will intercept most goods/profits (think music industry...).

It also appears to go a bit beyond the blockchain by providing a "market" where one can actuall swap these kodakone cryptocurrency for real goods or services. Some other cryptocurrencies have started that, it seems good idea.

Of course, I do not know how it will be welcomed in terms of "market valuation of that cryptocurrency" but their project appears to be fairly good.

Almost revolutionnary again!


The one itsy-bitsy-tiny problem with the whole idea, is the fact that the SEC has classified this coins as securities, and hence available to accredited or qualified investors.

From Bloomberg's Matt Levine (source):


Quote:
Kodak, unlike many cryptocurrency newbies, is a real company, albeit one that is somewhat reduced from its glory days. It is real enough to have real lawyers, anyway, so it has to do the initial coin offering of KodakCoin legally. And by now everyone accepts that speculative initial coin offerings -- particularly ICOs of tokens for use on not-yet-existing platforms -- are securities, and so have to be either registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission or issued under an exemption from registration. Kodak has sensibly decided to do an exempt ICO using a 506(c) private placement, which means that all purchasers of KodakCoins must be accredited investors, generally requiring either $200,000 in income or $1 million of net worth.

Which means ... that you can't use it? Want to buy some KodakCoins to pay for photos on the KodakOne platform? Great, fine, if you're a millionaire or a company, but middle-class individuals will not be able to buy KodakCoins.
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Old 12.01.2018, 15:59
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Re: Kodakcoin

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In short it does remove tons of intermediates and should ensure decent share for the actual authors and not the intermediates who will intercept most goods/profits (think music industry...).
For a while perhaps.

Once Kodak has grabbed enough market share they'll start to up their fees. If it didn't improve the prospect for future cash flows the shares wouldn't have reacted, at least not positively.
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Old 13.01.2018, 10:57
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Re: Kodakcoin

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The one itsy-bitsy-tiny problem with the whole idea, is the fact that the SEC has classified this coins as securities, and hence available to accredited or qualified investors.

From Bloomberg's Matt Levine (source):
Your quoted source says that the ICO will be put to the big-money investors. After that, anybody can buy them on the market. The only problem then is that if the coins have significant upside from the ICO price, only the big investors would get to enjoy that.
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Old 13.01.2018, 11:26
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Re: Kodakcoin

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What about facebook? Would that name interest you? Zuckerberg is rumoured to be looking into introducing an alt-coin for FB.
I've asked a pro photographer friend about this and he rightly said "Why Kodak when it's on the wane?" Our view is that, as a brand, it's the photographic equivalent of MySpace. Mind you, my 16yr old great nephew recently told me that I'm "so last decade and old school" for still using facebook.

To date, the best investment advice I was ever given, and didn't take, was buy L'Oreal.
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Old 13.01.2018, 20:24
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Re: Kodakcoin

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I've asked a pro photographer friend about this and he rightly said "Why Kodak when it's on the wane?" Our view is that, as a brand, it's the photographic equivalent of MySpace. Mind you, my 16yr old great nephew recently told me that I'm "so last decade and old school" for still using facebook.

To date, the best investment advice I was ever given, and didn't take, was buy L'Oreal.
Actually Kodak is along with Agfa, Esko, Fuji one of the four major players in the graphic industry. Preps and Prinergy are de-facto standard along with the hardware.
They managed to pull off the coup of the century when they filed for chapter 11 when it became clear that the 35mm film was dying. The taxpayer footed the bill and Kodak came up smelling like the rose of wallstreet. Now due to increased demand the Ektachrome range of film is being made again. Kodak has a clean bill of financial health and you will be able to buy 35mm Kodak Ektachrome again at some point in 2018.
You took your AE1 to the Brocki too soon.
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Last edited by slammer; 13.01.2018 at 21:13.
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