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  #701  
Old 18.03.2018, 20:21
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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What you're describing is a reaction to the problem.
Correct, prurience is a big problem here.
I thought it had withered away but no such luck
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  #702  
Old 18.03.2018, 20:28
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Pendle Hill, where Joseph Smith had his vision which led him to begin this faith, is less than 40 miles from my home town.
You are from upstate New York?

Tom
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  #703  
Old 19.03.2018, 09:42
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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You are from upstate New York?

Tom
Aboriginal? I'm gettin confused.
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  #704  
Old 19.03.2018, 13:33
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Just became interested in this thread - is there a summary, otherwise will read all pages
In short, Sweden has in the last few years problem with rising violence/crime in certain migrant-heavy neighborhoods, so much so that the PM raised the idea of bringing in the military to get those neighborhoods under control. Then the next 34 pages are about the usual do we blame migrants and migration policies, etc., are Sweden's very Liberal politics an example or is it destroying them, etc.
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  #705  
Old 19.03.2018, 16:21
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Aboriginal? I'm gettin confused.
Avers Rock NY or Alice Springs NJ?
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  #706  
Old 19.03.2018, 16:26
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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In short, Sweden has in the last few years problem with rising violence/crime in certain migrant-heavy neighborhoods, so much so that the PM raised the idea of bringing in the military to get those neighborhoods under control. Then the next 34 pages are about the usual do we blame migrants and migration policies, etc., are Sweden's very Liberal politics an example or is it destroying them, etc.
Copying Trump who threatened to bring the military into Chicago.

In both cases nothing was actually implemented.
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  #707  
Old 19.03.2018, 18:11
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Avers Rock NY or Alice Springs NJ?
I was being totally facetious.

Since kriss was being grilled on possibly not being "real" Aussie in the other thread.

But I know you were being insincere too.



Back to....Sweden.

I want to go see their Summer Solstice madness and am a bit worried I will see other madness.
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  #708  
Old 19.03.2018, 21:37
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I cannot speak for the JW, know only one and she is a delightful person. I do know quite a few LDS folks, par hasard, really. I do not think our spiritual beliefs define us, personality wise, but the amount of selfless work put in it actually might.
True. To be honest, there are so many churches out there that I'm quite confused sometimes - don't know if I met LDS folks, maybe I did, I don't ask people such things so if they don't mention anything...but I was invited for sermons and different activities to a few evangelical churches and I met very nice people there. I have a friend who is a mennonite (or at least her family tradition is, she moved to her home country recently) and the sweetest person, one that is a baptist, a couple belonging to the Pentecostal church... I really don't care if someone is a little bit more religious than the "norm" as long as they're good people. Even my family is very mixed - I mean different "flavours" of Christianity, even my parents belonged to different churches and that was never a problem...same with me and OH, who, funnily enough, now pretends he's also a Greek-Catholic just to make me smile (I took after my father)..he knows that's not an issue and it will never be, I like our traditions though. I love him as agnostic or atheist as he can be, no problem. I think most people I know are agnostics.
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  #709  
Old 19.03.2018, 21:55
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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True. To be honest, there are so many churches out there that I'm quite confused sometimes - don't know if I met LDS folks, maybe I did, I don't ask people such things so if they don't mention anything...but I was invited for sermons and different activities to a few evangelical churches and I met very nice people there. I have a friend who is a mennonite (or at least her family tradition is, she moved to her home country recently) and the sweetest person, one that is a baptist, a couple belonging to the Pentecostal church... I really don't care if someone is a little bit more religious than the "norm" as long as they're good people. Even my family is very mixed - I mean different "flavours" of Christianity, even my parents belonged to different churches and that was never a problem...same with me and OH, who, funnily enough, now pretends he's also a Greek-Catholic just to make me smile (I took after my father)..he knows that's not an issue and it will never be, I like our traditions though. I love him as agnostic or atheist as he can be, no problem. I think most people I know are agnostics.
Oks, not back to Sweden.

I get what you wrote..I think to try to infer anything about anyone simply knowing their spriritual preferences is bound to be wrong and presumptious, to say the least. People believe for different reasons. Everyone does, no matter what psychologists say.

Gotta say that people who are more than "a little bit religious than the norm" fascinate me, since it is very close to die hard atheists I know from home. Most of people I know are atheists but that is influenced by forced history of a place I am from.

I think people's spiritual preferences are different than our other preferences (hobbies, types of bonds we create, career..), because belief systems are bound to ethics and humbling our egos. Spiritual preferences have that in common. Being expansive, though, in the name of faith..is not really a humbling experience. Or thinking one is better because one has more pure faith or the only real one.
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  #710  
Old 20.03.2018, 07:53
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I think people's spiritual preferences are different than our other preferences (hobbies, types of bonds we create, career..), because belief systems are bound to ethics and humbling our egos. Spiritual preferences have that in common. Being expansive, though, in the name of faith..is not really a humbling experience. Or thinking one is better because one has more pure faith or the only real one.
Yes, this. Fortunately, Christianity at least is on a good path these days. There are talks in favour of historical reconciliations between the Eastern Christian Church and the Catholic one, things unimaginable even a few decades ago. Btw, one of your country men has done great things towards this direction, not everyone was forced out of religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomáš_Špidl%C3%ADk
Neo-protestant churches are being more and more accepted, people fall for what it works for them, less for traditions or purity of dogmas. The community spirit, togetherness, good structure. Switzerland is a great example for this pluralism. There is a church near us who organised all sort of (inter-faith) events (everybody is invited - Christians, Muslims and everything else) This is so contrasting with the jihadist movement in contemporary Islam, which took by storm old, significant regions and intends to do so even here, in Europe. A pity, really. To deny some obvious tendencies it's naivety or intellectual dishonesty*, at best. So that would be all on this theme.
Back to Sweden now.
*I've seen that a lot on this forum, and the tendency to point the finger to a different direction any time this subject has been brought up. For instance, was there any religious group more demonised here than the poor JWs? Even if most people never exchanged more than 2 words with them (if that), and were never really bothered by them. Funny, in a way..

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  #711  
Old 20.03.2018, 09:07
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

The Evangelical movement in the US is moving in a contrary direction.

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A senior Church of England bishop has lambasted conservative evangelical Christians in the US for their “uncritical support” of Donald Trump, urging them to reflect on how their endorsement of the president relates to their faith.

Paul Bayes, the bishop of Liverpool, said “self-styled evangelicals” risked bringing the word evangelical into disrepute, and added there was no justification for Christians contradicting God’s teaching to protect the poor and the weak.
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Last month, Justin Welby, the archbishop of Canterbury, said he could not comprehend the strength of support for Trump among conservative evangelicals in the US. “I really genuinely do not understand where that is coming from,” he told ITV’s Peston on Sunday programme.

In his Christmas Day sermon at Canterbury Cathedral, Welby criticised “populist leaders that deceive” their people, in comments interpreted as being aimed at Trump.
Source

How they can reconcile their beliefs with their uncritical support of a twice divorced man who is the subject of over 20 sexual assault allegations and the allegations of affairs with porn stars is very hard to understand.

The evangelicals have lost contact with their Christian roots.
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  #712  
Old 20.03.2018, 09:22
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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How they can reconcile their beliefs with their uncritical support of a twice divorced man who is the subject of over 20 sexual assault allegations and the allegations of affairs with porn stars is very hard to understand.

The evangelicals have lost contact with their Christian roots.
Maybe they just don't fall for all the hype in the media...who knows.

But thanks, you proved my point.
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  #713  
Old 20.03.2018, 09:52
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Last month, Justin Welby, the archbishop of Canterbury, said he could not comprehend the strength of support for Trump among conservative evangelicals in the US. “I really genuinely do not understand where that is coming from,” he told ITV’s Peston on Sunday programme.

In his Christmas Day sermon at Canterbury Cathedral, Welby criticised “populist leaders that deceive” their people, in comments interpreted as being aimed at Trump.
For being the head of a church that admits it's not sure whether God even exists, it's a bit tall to be calling out others for not living up to the letter of their faith.
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  #714  
Old 20.03.2018, 10:10
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Maybe they just don't fall for all the hype in the media...who knows.

But thanks, you proved my point.
You believe Trump's two divorces are just media hype?
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  #715  
Old 20.03.2018, 10:14
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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For being the head of a church that admits it's not sure whether God even exists, it's a bit tall to be calling out others for not living up to the letter of their faith.
That, plus the fact that the church in general should stay away from politics....don't you think?

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You believe Trump's two divorces are just media hype?
No, but maybe the horny allegations with pornographic nuances - are. Marton, I always suspected you're a Catholic. Divorces...happen. You'll not burn in hell for that.
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Old 20.03.2018, 10:44
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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That, plus the fact that the church in general should stay away from politics....don't you think?



No, but maybe the horny allegations with pornographic nuances - are. Marton, I always suspected you're a Catholic. Divorces...happen. You'll not burn in hell for that.
Not me, we are talking about the Evangelicals?

One of the most basic tenets of US Evangelical Christianity is a strict interpretation of the Bible.
Many evangelical Christians are fundamentally opposed to divorce, as there are passages in the Bible that seem to prohibit the practice.
Furthermore, the evangelical emphasis on morality and preserving the traditional family unit would seem to preclude divorce.

Nevertheless 80% of US Evangelicals support Trump?

Let us talk about Trump and the Evangelicals not me!

And certainly not about Sweden
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Old 20.03.2018, 10:49
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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No, but maybe the horny allegations with pornographic nuances - are. Marton, I always suspected you're a Catholic. Divorces...happen. You'll not burn in hell for that.
I always imagined Marton to be a high-church Anglican, maybe not overly pious about it, but nevertheless principled. I think he has conservative leanings and is pretty well read on a broad range of topics, and that he cares about many topics, but that he maybe gives the mainstream media more credence than they deserve.

But I'm probably so wrong in the first bit that he'll snigger when he reads this.
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  #718  
Old 20.03.2018, 10:55
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Not me, we are talking about the Evangelicals?

One of the most basic tenets of US Evangelical Christianity is a strict interpretation of the Bible.
Many evangelical Christians are fundamentally opposed to divorce, as there are passages in the Bible that seem to prohibit the practice.
Furthermore, the evangelical emphasis on morality and preserving the traditional family unit would seem to preclude divorce.

Nevertheless 80% of US Evangelicals support Trump?

Let us talk about Trump and the Evangelicals not me!

And certainly not about Sweden
Is the divorce rate among evangelicals genuinely significantly lower than among the rest of the population?

I think mnay Evangelicals support Tump, not because they are deluded into thinking he is one of them, or because he is such a role model, but because he supports the things they support.
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Old 20.03.2018, 11:19
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I always imagined Marton to be a high-church Anglican, maybe not overly pious about it, but nevertheless principled. .
That's because you think very high of the Anglicans. Nah, he's Catholic (or he's married with one, same thing lol).

But let's be as principled as he is and respect his wish - meaning we won't debate his religious (non-)affiliation anymore.
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Old 20.03.2018, 11:22
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I always imagined Marton to be a high-church Anglican.
We're all *cough* Anglicans. At least that's what the tax office has been told...
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