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  #61  
Old 19.01.2018, 19:00
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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The problem with comparing the refugees to German nationals is that Germany has a much more diverse demographic in regards to age and sex.

The majority of the refugees are 14-30 year old males - which just happen to be the group most likely to commit violent crimes.
Our cops are stupid, but not THAT stupid... they Managed to put together a reference group with similar demographics. If you compare apples with apples is the result about the same level of crime.
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Old 19.01.2018, 19:22
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Simple:
- 1% of refugees comitt 40% of all crimes. You essentially want to know what I think about the other 60%.
- Over a third of all crimes of refugees have to do with their papers and wether or not they are telling the truth when registering.
Statistics can be twisted and bent to suit either sides view. But you do bring up a good point, and that is the types of crimes. Right now in Sweden, the government is talking about sending in the military to take back areas where they have lost control to gangs, which are primarily made up of Middle Eastern migrants. That's extraordinary. Why? Because of the types of crimes happening. It's not riding a bus without a ticket. It's threatening the law and order of the country. Police are being targeted in their homes, police stations attacked, handgrenade attacks have become commonplace, and in some cities a majority of people (80% in Mälmo) are living in fear. Altho you can speak of the crime "statistics" of migrants being low/high, the fact is that the impact of these crimes on Swedish society are huge, as it is changing the way of life there.
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Old 19.01.2018, 20:32
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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the US doesn't have the heavy social/welfare net that Sweden has.
Despite the news, Sweden is a safer country than the US.
The homicide rate (per capita) in Sweden is much lower than in the US, and it is among the lowest in Europe. The homicide rate (per capita) is for example lower than in Finland, despite the lack of hand grenades and AK47:s in Finland.
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Old 20.01.2018, 01:06
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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.Actually yes I do, remember where I now live, there are areas where "Spot the white man is a game" I would say 20% Somalis, 50% Nigerians and the rest... stick a map of Africa on the wall and get a handful of darts. Thing is, non of them mix with the Maltese, heck even the Britacolypse here in Bugibba doesn´t mix with the locals but will stick together at the drop of a pint. Remember we are not talking about the handful of polylingual individuals that get paraded as a shining beacon of Merkels last hope but the great unwashed.

Actually I blame the missionaries and all the aid the west has crammed down the throat of Africa. Too many young males are surviving these days, there are not enough wars and no longer enough deadly epidemics to cull the population to acceptable levels, sounds harsh I know, but this is Africa we are talking about, our morals and views simply do not apply. In a lot of the more "conservative" parts villages will get together and send 20 or 30 of their surplus males on the journey, they expect that at least 10 will make it and be able to send money back to the villages, it´s a win-win situation, the villages get rid of the males and stand to make some money.
Thing is they HAVE to make money that is their end game and why should they not, the streets of Europe are paved with gold and you get money for free according to the propaganda. This is actually the main reason they are here not escape from war. (this is by the way paraphrased from the training material you get when you volunteer for working with the refugees)

Ok, there are no British Ex-pat ghettos in Zürich, there is one in Basel, it´s called "Pickwicks" thing is we are talking about two very similar cultures, and there is not much of a ΔE as there is between, let´s say Swede and Somali. The only overlap there is that the name of both countries starts with an "S"
By knowing people from these countries I didn't mean are they present in your town but are you friends with any of them or do you deal with them on daily basis, talk to them regularly.

Yes, of course Zurich has the Pickwick-bubble , well it definitely did end 70-ies, beginning of 80-ies. But part of it were South Americans, a few Swiss, Americans and Australians. That's also not what I meant. I was more talking about entire quarters of a town being one ethnic group, making it a city within the city.
Kleinbasel could be mentioned but not really as it's just a bit like Langstrasse in Zurich: It's more a mixture of cultures and a lot of Swiss having a great time living there too

I think the "hangover" the African countries had from the missionaries is not really acute anymore. They are more than happy to carry on with this type of thing. Have you ever been in church in Nigeria? It takes all of Sunday - ALL of Sunday and while it is a lot more lively than for example here (I'm comparing protestants with protestants) and the dynamics are very interesting to observe, it's actually more like these modern American services you can watch on teli. The missionaries were mainly European, no?

But what is really amazing is that young people for example in Nigeria still deeply believe that GB owes them. They wanted to be independent, they went independent 58 years - "ages" before those boys were born, heck, before I was born - yet they deeply believe the world owes them. You can talk to them, you can reason with them, you can have very good discussions with them and make them see some things but you can't wipe out that deep feeling. And I'm talking discussing it with a history-student at university.
Yes, families do chose young ones to be sent to Europe, in fact sometimes entire villages finance their trip. I know it was also the case in Tamile families. I would argue they have "getting rid of the males" in mind. They want them all to make it. And the pressure on these guys once they are here is immense. They try to explain they get 77 Franks a week and can't send much home - but 77 franks is Naira 28.864. WHAT? And you can't send us money?

We didn't discuss the details of their trip here and the pressure they are under but you're right, we should.
Still, we can't take this off their shoulders really as Europe can not support all the family members back home as well.

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Statistics can be twisted and bent to suit either sides view. But you do bring up a good point, and that is the types of crimes. Right now in Sweden, the government is talking about sending in the military to take back areas where they have lost control to gangs, which are primarily made up of Middle Eastern migrants. That's extraordinary. Why? Because of the types of crimes happening. It's not riding a bus without a ticket. It's threatening the law and order of the country. Police are being targeted in their homes, police stations attacked, handgrenade attacks have become commonplace, and in some cities a majority of people (80% in Mälmo) are living in fear. Altho you can speak of the crime "statistics" of migrants being low/high, the fact is that the impact of these crimes on Swedish society are huge, as it is changing the way of life there.
This.
What is going on in their minds? What is the aim? The goal? If they ruin the country they've come to, what good will it do to them?
Or are they so damaged by the war sceene at home that they don't know better? If so we and them are doomed to fail. We can't send them all to the psychiatrist (a) we don't have enough of those who would be able to do the cultural part of the work, b) most people from the cultures we're talking about refuse flat out to see a psychiatrist).

We all talk about present situations and causes. While we should talk about solutions. Now I know I have not really talked about solutions either but believe me I'm pondering this since many years - and in times which were nothing like they are now.

When I read about Sweden - and I'm forced to believe what I read, although we all know that often the news and daily life is not the same, which is not the medias fault as they obviously report the happenings which are not the boring, daily life - from the information stand I have right now yes, I believe the Swedes should bring in the military and clear the streets. If I speak for the case of Somalis, it's the language they understand. After that maybe they should try to teach them their language - and I do not mean Swedish.
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Old 20.01.2018, 08:24
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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By knowing people from these countries I didn't mean are they present in your town but are you friends with any of them or do you deal with them on daily basis, talk to them regularly.
Frankly no, nobody does because there is no overlap, there is no common ground on which a dialogue would happen, having said that I do go shopping in one of the African shops that have opened in the last four or five years and although the shop keeper is friendly enough the other patrons either avoid eye contact or ignore one or in the worst case will look at you with hate. You do not go as a white person to Hal Far or Albert town or Marsa or now even parts of Bugibba, well it´s not too bad here, but apart from being black most are muslim and refuse to talk to unbelievers, you will simply be ignored, nobody will say hallo, give you a smile or show body language that would hint that there maybe, just maybe a base for integration.
All programs that were started to showcase African culture fizzled out, the last one I know about was late last year where some Africans gibbered out some god awful rendition of American ghetto rap to a dwindling audience of about ten.
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Old 20.01.2018, 09:32
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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In the city of Mälmo (with a heavy migrant population) people are pretty much living in fear, school had to shut down, a police station was bombed there yesterday.... It's really amazing that this is happening in Sweden A year or so ago when Trump made comments about Sweden and "no-go zones" he was mocked by the liberal media Of course the media on both sides will twist stories to fit their narrative, but I think it should be clear to everyone that there is a problem going on in Sweden right now.

I would be interested to hear some opinions and feelings from any Swedish ex-pats. From the ones I have talked to personally, they always seem kind of nervous to broach the topic of migration, like they aren't allowed to correlate refugees and crime, like it's a taboo topic


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6835522


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6105706


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6865115
I visited Malmo for the first time in 2006: what a beautiful and peaceful city it was! I usually vote for politicians with moderate conservative views but now I am rethinking it! Seriously, someone must stop this kind of immigration to Europe!
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Old 20.01.2018, 09:37
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Altho you can speak of the crime "statistics" of migrants being low/high, the fact is that the impact of these crimes on Swedish society are huge, as it is changing the way of life there.
This thread is good illustration how a nonexistent increase in crime creates added anxiety. Anecdotes of immigrant crimes are embraced and hyped by nativists and used further their political goals.

The same thing happened in the US. Immigrants commit less crime, crime has been on the decline for decades, but an effective demagogue with a platform can stir anxiety.

Stop.
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Old 20.01.2018, 09:39
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Fair point. But dynamics are different. One major one, is/was that the US doesn't have the heavy social/welfare net that Sweden has. In the US you need to get up and work, nothing is handed to you. Even the Mexican migrants are on the corner every morning waiting for a work truck to come and pick them up. In Sweden on the other hand, the social/welfare state is so heavy, people can live fairly comfortably without working at all.
Not only that: the Americas are overwhelmingly Christian!
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Old 20.01.2018, 09:41
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Huge problem in Sweden is also that it is not done to name problems, 80% of the Somalians in Sweden are unemployed and 70% of all have a low or even unspecified level of education. So what every sane country would do is come up with help and guidelines pointed towards the Somalians as a group since clearly the group as a whole needs such, this is however not done in Sweden since naming ethnics simply makes you a fascist. My parents in law for example were shocked when I said that Roma's are the most criminal group in the Netherlands, since it is not done to see them as a group and they should be treated like individuals without any special help which takes their ethnics into consideration.
That numbers clearly state that of the Adult Roma's 75% has one or more convictions, and of the one's below 18yrs 25% has one or more convictions meant nothing to them since it is only individuals and absolutely not a problem with the group. Thus offering special help/rulings for the group is in Sweden non-existent.
Change "Netherlands" to "Italy" and your description is still valid!
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Old 20.01.2018, 09:55
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I visited Malmo for the first time in 2006: what a beautiful and peaceful city it was! I usually vote for politicians with moderate conservative views but now I am rethinking it! Seriously, someone must stop this kind of immigration to Europe!
I was there for 3 weeks in 2016 and again 2 months ago and it’s still beautiful and peaceful.

None of my Swedish friends are alarmed or feel any difference, never mind feel in danger either there or Stockholm or even out in the sticks.
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Old 20.01.2018, 10:06
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Statistics can be twisted and bent to suit either sides view. But you do bring up a good point, and that is the types of crimes. Right now in Sweden, the government is talking about sending in the military to take back areas where they have lost control to gangs, which are primarily made up of Middle Eastern migrants. That's extraordinary. Why? Because of the types of crimes happening. It's not riding a bus without a ticket. It's threatening the law and order of the country. Police are being targeted in their homes, police stations attacked, handgrenade attacks have become commonplace, and in some cities a majority of people (80% in Mälmo) are living in fear. Altho you can speak of the crime "statistics" of migrants being low/high, the fact is that the impact of these crimes on Swedish society are huge, as it is changing the way of life there.
I call BS and so does Snopes unless you take Breitbart and the Local as reliable news sources. Handgrenade and rocket launcher attacks were being perpetrated by biker gangs, the Bandidos and Hells Angels in the 90s and 00s and why presume it isn't being committed by Swedish Criminal gangs. I don't doubt for a second that crimes are being committed by some immigrants including refugees, however all the focus here is about blaming those groups of people. Sweden was never crime free in the first place. Half the year being cold miserable and stuck in the dark doesn't help either.
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Old 20.01.2018, 10:08
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Despite the news, Sweden is a safer country than the US.
The homicide rate (per capita) in Sweden is much lower than in the US, and it is among the lowest in Europe. The homicide rate (per capita) is for example lower than in Finland, despite the lack of hand grenades and AK47:s in Finland.
Sorry but you are very wrong by blindly and simplistically asserting a conclusion solely based on numbers. A real-world example:

- I just recently visited St. Louis that probably has the highest homicide rate in the USA. However the city is SUPER safe wherever you go but "gang" neighborhoods. The same thing happens in Chicago or the majority of the USA: anyone who abides the law and don't get involved with gangs & drugs s will have no problem because the violence, in general, does not spill over to the good citizens.

- In Sweden, or any other European country with rising violence due to immigration, the entire population (ie., the good citizens) is being affected! Attacks, rapes, etc., are happening everywhere, to anyone!




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Old 20.01.2018, 10:14
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I was there for 3 weeks in 2016 and again 2 months ago and it’s still beautiful and peaceful.

None of my Swedish friends are alarmed or feel any difference, never mind feel in danger either there or Stockholm or even out in the sticks.
So explain these





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Old 20.01.2018, 10:31
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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This thread is good illustration how a nonexistent increase in crime creates added anxiety. Anecdotes of immigrant crimes are embraced and hyped by nativists and used further their political goals.
I think Sweden should just start releasing the ethnicity and backgrounds of all criminals; then we can finally show these far-right types that immigrants are not more prone to crime than Swedes are.

(I know, I know, all statistics prior to 2005 that did show the background/ethnicity of perpetrators seemed to indicate that immigrants were much more prone to crime. But that has probably changed now)
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Old 20.01.2018, 10:43
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

In Chicago bystanders do get killed, to such an extent, that in some quarters there are so called "safe passage" routes established for children to reach school, and unarmed civilians are watching the streets. Since then no child was killed (on these safe passages).

While I well understand the advocates of immigrants, but I call them hypocrites because I bet none of them would move into such a quarter in Chicago or a French social housing quarter, or some neighbourhoods in German cities ruled by some ethnic gangs; but they still advocate for a politics that may lead to exactly this outcome.
Such advocates, when pushed, will always say that they don't want unlimited immigration. Limited is fine with them, because they're not expecting to experience it's adverse effects first hand.
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Old 20.01.2018, 11:21
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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None of my Swedish friends are alarmed or feel any difference, never mind feel in danger either there or Stockholm or even out in the sticks.
Safety is the number one conversation in Sweden at the moment among the people I know, even the gutmenschen are worried. I mean, if you have paid 1 million € to run away from multiculturalism, but then your 9-year old son gets robbed on the way to school I would be pretty pissed too.

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sto...m-fran-skolan/

Maybe the people you know are living under a rock?
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Old 20.01.2018, 11:56
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Safety is the number one conversation in Sweden at the moment among the people I know, even the gutmenschen are worried. I mean, if you have paid 1 million € to run away from multiculturalism, but then your 9-year old son gets robbed on the way to school I would be pretty pissed too.

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sto...m-fran-skolan/

Maybe the people you know are living under a rock?
I think the "people I know" phenomenon is exactly the point. It's all highly subjective. Yes, you can feverishly pull up links and videos to ram your point of view home, but there are also people with the opposite view and with opposing and equal links to back their side up, too.

My OWN personal experience up there and that of my friends and work colleagues is different to yours and Capo's. Yes, no doubt you have got friends with stories of being attacked in Sweden or maybe they just see a group of men stood around and feel irrationally afraid, whereas someone else would not give it a second glance.

Perhaps there is some degree of perception involved. Maybe we gravitate to people who feel the same as we do. I'm not the hysterical alarmist type so, unless I'm directly threatened, I don't tend to view people with immediate suspicion. Clearly others seem to be on more of a hair trigger. Most of my friends and colleagues are of a similar disposition to me.

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While I well understand the advocates of immigrants, but I call them hypocrites because I bet none of them would move into such a quarter in Chicago or a French social housing quarter, or some neighbourhoods in German cities ruled by some ethnic gangs; but they still advocate for a politics that may lead to exactly this outcome.
Such advocates, when pushed, will always say that they don't want unlimited immigration. Limited is fine with them, because they're not expecting to experience it's adverse effects first hand.
I think the politics they advocate would avoid the ghetto-isation in the first place. Maybe sounds a bit idealist but, hey, if you have no ideals you have no direction.

Calling people hypocrites and expecting them to live in neighbourhoods which have become heavy in one ethnic group or another is expecting them to live in a situation created by a different political background.
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Old 20.01.2018, 12:34
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I think the "people I know" phenomenon is exactly the point. It's all highly subjective. Yes, you can feverishly pull up links and videos to ram your point of view home, but there are also people with the opposite view and with opposing and equal links to back their side up, too.

My OWN personal experience up there and that of my friends and work colleagues is different to yours and Capo's. Yes, no doubt you have got friends with stories of being attacked in Sweden or maybe they just see a group of men stood around and feel irrationally afraid, whereas someone else would not give it a second glance.

Perhaps there is some degree of perception involved. Maybe we gravitate to people who feel the same as we do. I'm not the hysterical alarmist type so, unless I'm directly threatened, I don't tend to view people with immediate suspicion. Clearly others seem to be on more of a hair trigger. Most of my friends and colleagues are of a similar disposition to me.
I should not have said "the people I know" because it is not only there, it is across all sections of society. If the first debate in parliament of 2018 is more or less only about safety and immigration, all the official statistics show that crime as going up, people feel more unsafe than ever and that fact that there is a huge police crisis in Sweden, then that is not a subjective observation from my part.

What was even your original point? That you don't feel that crime is a problem in Malmö?
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Old 20.01.2018, 12:40
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I should not have said "the people I know" because it is not only there, it is across all sections of society. If the first debate in parliament of 2018 is more or less only about safety and immigration, all the official statistics show that crime as going up, people feel more unsafe than ever and that fact that there is a huge police crisis in Sweden, then that is not a subjective observation from my part.

What was even your original point? That you don't feel that crime is a problem in Malmö?
Nope. Just adding a bit of balance to the premise that migrants are entirely responsible for it.
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Old 20.01.2018, 13:24
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I should not have said "the people I know" because it is not only there, it is across all sections of society. If the first debate in parliament of 2018 is more or less only about safety and immigration, all the official statistics show that crime as going up, people feel more unsafe than ever and that fact that there is a huge police crisis in Sweden, then that is not a subjective observation from my part.

What was even your original point? That you don't feel that crime is a problem in Malmö?
Thanks for an insider's view.

What did you think cca a year ago when Trump tweeted about Malmö security situation getting unmanageable? The outrage in media about Trump possibly not knowing where Malmö even is, etc etc, was interesting. Majority of visible reactions seemed against his observation.

I am not sure if the current situ is a product of long term social (and socialist) politics or simply some people not being unable/willing to integrate. Thoughts?
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