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  #81  
Old 20.01.2018, 15:25
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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What did you think cca a year ago when Trump tweeted about Malmö security situation getting unmanageable? The outrage in media about Trump possibly not knowing where Malmö even is, etc etc, was interesting. Majority of visible reactions seemed against his observation.
Sorry, no. In a speech in Florida on February 18, 2017, Trump said, "You look at what’s happening in Germany. You look at what’s happening last night in Sweden — Sweden — who would believe this?"

That "last night" and the nights (and days) before, absolutely nothing significant had happened in Sweden. And that's what the media made fun of. No one denied that Sweden does have massive problems, but Trump sounded exactly like a major terrorist attack had happened there, which was not the case.

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  #82  
Old 20.01.2018, 15:33
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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While I well understand the advocates of immigrants, but I call them hypocrites because I bet none of them would move into such a quarter in Chicago or a French social housing quarter, or some neighbourhoods in German cities ruled by some ethnic gangs; but they still advocate for a politics that may lead to exactly this outcome.
Such advocates, when pushed, will always say that they don't want unlimited immigration. Limited is fine with them, because they're not expecting to experience it's adverse effects first hand.
For all you know, some of us may be products of organised crime dominated neighbourhoods who have an all too clear understanding of how communities are ruined through a combination of missing political will and toxic criminality, but please do call people you don‘t know hypocrites.

I‘d be surprised if anyone on this thread is not an advocate of immigrants. I don‘t know any sane person who thinks criminality a welcome addition. If it's of interest, Swiss people are more likely to be criminals than immigrants, but amongst immigrants the percentage who are criminal is higher.

What's more worthy of outrage: the splinter or the plank? But let‘s tar whole groups with the same brush: send the buggers back!

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  #83  
Old 20.01.2018, 20:30
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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For all you know, some of us may be products of organised crime dominated neighbourhoods who have an all too clear understanding of how communities are ruined through a combination of missing political will and toxic criminality, but please do call people you don‘t know hypocrites.

I‘d be surprised if anyone on this thread is not an advocate of immigrants. I don‘t know any sane person who thinks criminality a welcome addition. If it's of interest, Swiss people are more likely to be criminals than immigrants, but amongst immigrants the percentage who are criminal is higher.

What's more worthy of outrage: the splinter or the plank? But let‘s tar whole groups with the same brush: send the buggers back!

You are forgetting, xenophobia is hardwired into our species, maybe not so much for you or most who post here, people with a higher intelligence and a moral compass that generally points truer north than that of the great unwashed. But you don´t count, your voice of reason will not be heard in the shouting of the lowest common denominator, for them xenophobia is a thing, they will tolerate one or two strangers, but they won´t tolerate a mass influx.
Look at history when has any "invasion" gone without a hitch?
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  #84  
Old 20.01.2018, 21:28
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

Only political will can bring about change. Or violence. I‘m flattered by your compliments but I‘m not offering solutions: that‘s for Swedes to resolve. What‘s not cool is blaming all immigrants for the actions of a few: that lowest common denominator approach doesn‘t work and casual commentary muddies the waters further.

Hardwired xenophobia is a supposition: while it's true we react differently to birds of a different feather, fear is learned and stoked by the irresponsible.
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  #85  
Old 20.01.2018, 21:56
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I was there for 3 weeks in 2016 and again 2 months ago and it’s still beautiful and peaceful.

None of my Swedish friends are alarmed or feel any difference, never mind feel in danger either there or Stockholm or even out in the sticks.
I have an old Swedish friend who has lived most of his life in Malmo.

He spends a lot of time on the Internet supporting groups who are anti claims that Sweden has a massive immigrant problem.

Of course he only lives there and has not benefited from having his views formed by newspapers printed in other (not Swedish) languages.
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  #86  
Old 20.01.2018, 21:56
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I‘d be surprised if anyone on this thread is not an advocate of immigrants. I don‘t know any sane person who thinks criminality a welcome addition. If it's of interest, Swiss people are more likely to be criminals than immigrants, but amongst immigrants the percentage who are criminal is higher.

What's more worthy of outrage: the splinter or the plank? But let‘s tar whole groups with the same brush: send the buggers back!
There's a big difference between Swiss immigration and Swedish immigration though, isn't there? The vast majority of immigrants which come to Switzerland already have a job, those that have turned up in Sweden don't. And that's the crux, immigration is a good thing if managed correctly.
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  #87  
Old 20.01.2018, 22:05
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Only political will can bring about change. Or violence. I‘m flattered by your compliments but I‘m not offering solutions: that‘s for Swedes to resolve. What‘s not cool is blaming all immigrants for the actions of a few: that lowest common denominator approach doesn‘t work and casual commentary muddies the waters further.

Hardwired xenophobia is a supposition: while it's true we react differently to birds of a different feather, fear is learned and stoked by the irresponsible.
Political will or political force? Either way will cause resentment. No nobody is blaming all immigrants, you have to work your way down, waaaay down to the really low watt illuminations to get a pauschal damning of immigrants, however it´s their time now, populist politics are mainstream and more and more of the normally stable middle class are starting to see their light.
Not too sure also about your assumption that xenophobia is a learned trait, from what I have seen it is the default settings for us monkeys and we use it to evaluate and judge if "strange" is a threat or not. Education and your Environment will at the end of the day determine if you actually become Xenophobic, which works for me but I don´t count, you don´t count, the mass counts, and they are only as intelligent as the monkeys who howl loudest and fling poop the bestest.
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  #88  
Old 20.01.2018, 22:24
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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There's a big difference between Swiss immigration and Swedish immigration though, isn't there? The vast majority of immigrants which come to Switzerland already have a job, those that have turned up in Sweden don't. And that's the crux, immigration is a good thing if managed correctly.
You are deliberately confusing migrants with refugees again (as usual) to try and prove a non existent point.

Swedish police say they had over half a million reports in the four months from October 2015 but only 5,000 involved refugees/asylum seekers.

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"What we're hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it's related to immigration is more or less not true at all," says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.
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  #89  
Old 20.01.2018, 22:39
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

More fake news

A 10-minute December 2016 film by FoxNews.com's Ami Horowitz, Stockholm Syndrome, focused on violence by Muslim immigrants within Sweden, and included an interview with two policemen who seemed to confirm that there are no-go areas for police in Sweden.

During the interview, one officer states, "If the police is chasing another car for some kind of crime, if they reach what we call 'no-go areas', the police won't go after it."

The police officers later objected to the interview and said that their quotes had been taken out of context, and a videographer who worked on the film supported the officers' account, saying the video was cut unethically.

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It was supposed to be about crime in high risk areas. Areas with high crime rates. There wasn't any focus on migration or immigration.

Photographer Emil Marczak who filmed the interview has now backed the claims from the officers about being misrepresented
The camera operator added that he would not have taken the job if he knew "how unethically and frivolously the material would have been cut together"
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  #90  
Old 20.01.2018, 22:53
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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The situation at Värner Rydénskolan school in Malmö has become too dangerous for students and staff. Now the safety committee of the teachers' union has decided to close the middle school in the Rosengård neighborhood because of violence and criminality.
Värner Rydénskolan school in Malmö seems to be still running, here is the 2018 term timetable
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  #91  
Old 20.01.2018, 23:03
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Fair point. But dynamics are different. One major one, is/was that the US doesn't have the heavy social/welfare net that Sweden has. In the US you need to get up and work, nothing is handed to you. Even the Mexican migrants are on the corner every morning waiting for a work truck to come and pick them up. In Sweden on the other hand, the social/welfare state is so heavy, people can live fairly comfortably without working at all.
The main problem that refugees have who want to work is due to a Swedish law that does not allow them to work before they achieve a level of fluency in the Swedish language.

Did you ever try to learn Swedish? I guess not, anyway too easy to try to blame the social/welfare state!
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  #92  
Old 20.01.2018, 23:04
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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Värner Rydénskolan school in Malmö seems to be still running, here is the 2018 term timetable
They had some years to find a fix Town hired a security company to ensure safety, and staff would get help with conflict resolution and safety routines, they expelled some students and took the group apart by moving them over different schools. After this the school reopened.

After the Örtagårds school closed it's doors due to no longer being able to provide a safe enough environment the Värner Rydén school got a part of the trash from that school and in 2015 found itself forced to close it's doors also since they could no longer offer a safe enough environment for staff and students.

The local government after this hired a security company to ensure safety, and staff would get help with conflict resolution and safety routines, they expelled some students and took the group apart by moving them over different schools. After this the school reopened.
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  #93  
Old 20.01.2018, 23:13
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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You are deliberately confusing migrants with refugees again (as usual) to try and prove a non existent point.
You call them what you want marton if it makes you feel better. Whether they’re refugees or migrants the end result is still the same in that they’re in the country without a job. That’s the point, but you’re too ignorant to see that, aren’t you?
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  #94  
Old 20.01.2018, 23:16
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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I call BS and so does Snopes unless you take Breitbart and the Local as reliable news sources. Handgrenade and rocket launcher attacks were being perpetrated by biker gangs, the Bandidos and Hells Angels in the 90s and 00s and why presume it isn't being committed by Swedish Criminal gangs. I don't doubt for a second that crimes are being committed by some immigrants including refugees, however all the focus here is about blaming those groups of people. Sweden was never crime free in the first place. Half the year being cold miserable and stuck in the dark doesn't help either.
It is a strange thing but in Sweden Hand-grenades are not classed as weapons but as fireworks so you can happily import them
Source

As was mentioned hand grenades have been used in Sweden for criminal acts since 1993. This activity picked up in 2013/2014 before the big refugee influx.

Source
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Old 20.01.2018, 23:18
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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And that's the crux, immigration is a good thing if managed correctly.
Yup. No discussion there. As the Swedish PM quoted above says: be prepared. We must be on our guard to address misinformation and challenge assumptions. And IMO remember our Humanity for everyone's sake. The one-size-fits-all immigrant / refugee / criminal trope is historically and deliberately manipulated to the benefit of very few but at a cost to all.

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Political will or political force? Either way will cause resentment. No nobody is blaming all immigrants, you have to work your way down, waaaay down to the really low watt illuminations to get a pauschal damning of immigrants, however it´s their time now, populist politics are mainstream and more and more of the normally stable middle class are starting to see their light.
Not too sure also about your assumption that xenophobia is a learned trait, from what I have seen it is the default settings for us monkeys and we use it to evaluate and judge if "strange" is a threat or not. Education and your Environment will at the end of the day determine if you actually become Xenophobic, which works for me but I don´t count, you don´t count, the mass counts, and they are only as intelligent as the monkeys who howl loudest and fling poop the bestest.
So follow the money and ask who‘s to gain from the howling and poop flinging. Like criminals, politicians are opportune with an ever beady eye on power. Newspaper proprietors and Lobbyists more so. Which leads us nicely to memes. Someone!
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Old 20.01.2018, 23:18
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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The main problem that refugees have who want to work is due to a Swedish law that does not allow them to work before they achieve a level of fluency in the Swedish language.

Did you ever try to learn Swedish? I guess not, anyway too easy to try to blame the social/welfare state!
What law would that be? I know enough people who work and live in Sweden and even after years still understand nothing from the Swedish Language. And given their laws on equality it would surprise me that some persons are demanded to learn Swedish and others do not.

The main problem refugees have is a combination of them on average having little skills, low education, low amount of relevant experience, a lack of jobs at the bottom of the market, and they indeed do not speak the language (Swedish is a bitch to learn if one has not yet mastered one of the Germanic languages).

Sweden is in a way like Switzerland, there is a low percentage of jobs for the unskilled, and those jobs are also already almost all taken atm.
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Old 20.01.2018, 23:20
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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You call them what you want marton if it makes you feel better. Whether they’re refugees or migrants the end result is still the same in that they’re in the country without a job. That’s the point, but you’re too ignorant to see that, aren’t you?
So they’re jobless? I am an immigrant here and have had periods of unemployment. It doesn’t mean I will automatically turn to crime.
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Old 20.01.2018, 23:28
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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So they’re jobless? I am an immigrant here and have had periods of unemployment. It doesn’t mean I will automatically turn to crime.
Turning up for a job and then losing it is different from turning up and expecting everything for free, but you already know that.

Switzerland even has a good system for dealing with refugees. Thirty odd thousands Tamils here are testament to that.
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Old 20.01.2018, 23:28
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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You call them what you want marton if it makes you feel better. Whether they’re refugees or migrants the end result is still the same in that they’re in the country without a job. That’s the point, but you’re too ignorant to see that, aren’t you?
No, migrants like you come for a job after passing through due selection process

Refugees have no job to come to

People who claim to be refugees and have their asylum claim rejected become illegal asylum seekers, not immigrants
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Old 20.01.2018, 23:34
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Re: What's Happening to Sweden?

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People who claim to be refugees and have their asylum claim rejected become illegal asylum seekers, not immigrants
If they do not return and plan to stay they are immigrants.

Being illegal does change nothing on that.
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