What's Happening to Sweden? - Page 54

amogles · #**1061** 10.09.2018, 13:46

	Quote:	marton
	As was already posted, the situation will change over the next 5 years and so as a result they will slowly fade back into obscurity!

What exactly are you expecting to change over the next 5 years?

esto · #**1062** 10.09.2018, 13:48

	Quote:	marton
	As you know a party with 18% of the vote is not in a better position than a party with 13% of the vote to have a decent chance to "make things uncomfortable" for the ruling party. As was already posted, the situation will change over the next 5 years and so as a result they will slowly fade back into obscurity!

No not really. SD has a large enough position now to make an impact. Will they fade back to obscurity? Who knows. But at the moment they, and other right-wing parties in EU, are taking large steps forward.

	Quote:
	With nearly all votes counted on Monday, the ruling centre-left Social Democrats and Greens and their Left Party parliamentary ally had 40.6 percent of the vote, while the opposition centre-right Alliance was on 40.3 percent. Their success follow a rise in popularity for other far-right parties in Europe amid growing anxiety over national identity, the effects of globalisation and fears over immigration boosted partly by conflicts in the Middle East and North Africa. Senior figures in the mainstream parties were expected to meet later on Monday to begin producing a strategy for forming a government. But the process could take weeks and possibly fail, with the Sweden Democrats vowing to sink any cabinet that doesn't give them a say in policy. "We will gain huge influence over what happens in Sweden during the coming weeks, months and years," party leader Jimmie Akesson told supporters on Sunday night.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sweden-fa...080842399.html

amogles · #**1063** 10.09.2018, 13:56

	Quote:	esto
	No not really. SD has a large enough position now to make an impact. Will they fade back to obscurity? Who knows. But at the moment they, and other right-wing parties in EU, are taking large steps forward.

If you break it down regioanaly, it becomes even more apparent.

In many areas of Malmö, the SD came out as strongest party. If the SD can build on that it's going to give them a lot of muscle in municipal and regional elections. These are areas that have not just recently awoken to the concept that migration even exists, but areas that have been seeing it for decades, and where the problems are not going to go away overnight.

One possibility is that the SD might fritter all that support away with infighting and silliness. Another is that they can build on it and start making their weight felt.

Sandgrounder · #**1064** 10.09.2018, 14:07

	Quote:	amogles
	Or on the contrary, they could influience things from the opposition. This has been happening in France for years, but also Norway, Denmark etc. The ruling parties are scared of the right wing and often mimic their talking points to reduce the impact. Only that by doing so rerpeatedly, they are allowing those points to become mainstream. Even the German Linke are mimicking certain AfD positions. For the right wing this is actually quite comfortable. They can allow the others to implement their policies. If they are a success, they can claim it was their idea the others stole. If things go wrong, they can claim its because the others just stole their idea out of opportunity but are not really willing or able to implement the idea properly. So both ways the right wing wins.

It works both ways. The frothing of the far right is tempered with a bit of touchy-feely leftie stuff to woo the undecideds, who find it slightly unpalatable to be voting for all the rabid "get rid of brown people" rhetoric and want to feel a bit better because they're really (honest gov!) voting for *cough* increased spending on hospitals, for example.

I don't think what you pointed out up there is particularly new or unknown. Stealing political ideas to win votes is hardly a new thing.

marton · #**1065** 10.09.2018, 14:13

	Quote:	amogles
	What exactly are you expecting to change over the next 5 years?

Fewer refugees fleeing war torn countries.
Wars coming to an end allowing some refugees to return home.
Refugee population maturing and becoming better integrated.

amogles · #**1066** 10.09.2018, 14:16

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	I don't think what you pointed out up there is particularly new or unknown. Stealing political ideas to win votes is hardly a new thing.

But normally people steal ideas that win votes.

So if SD has hit its high tide mark and is about to whither into oblivion along with all its policies, why would other parties be so eager to mimic them?

esto · #**1067** 10.09.2018, 14:18

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	It works both ways. The frothing of the far right is tempered with a bit of touchy-feely leftie stuff to woo the undecideds, who find it slightly unpalatable to be voting for all the rabid "get rid of brown people" rhetoric

I think "reasonable migration policies" and "get rid of brown people" are two very different platforms. It's the Left parties who are trying to paint right-wing parties with those words ("Get rid of brown people") by using fear tactics, and not have an actual discussion about them or the topics they bring up.

Chemnitz was exactly a microcosm of that. Instead of considering the POV of the thousands of Germans who came out to protest against their governments migration policies, the Left and Left-controlled media found a handful of actual Nazis mixed in there, and made the whole story about them while ignoring the concerns of the thousands of non-Nazi Germans there. The people then feel ignored, and take to the voting booth next time for parties further to the right...

amogles · #**1068** 10.09.2018, 14:20

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	the undecideds, who find it slightly unpalatable to be voting for all the rabid "get rid of brown people" rhetoric and want to feel a bit better.

You do love to reduce everything to "getting rid of brown people", don't you?

It's always easier to fight the personal caricature that lives in your head than to open your eyes to a far more complex situation.

EdwinNL · #**1069** 10.09.2018, 14:24

	Quote:	marton
	Fewer refugees fleeing war torn countries. Wars coming to an end allowing some refugees to return home. Refugee population maturing and becoming better integrated.

Must be nice to believe this.

I on the other think that the worst has yet to come, history teaches us that cultures and religions come and go, they conquer or get conquered and the numbers reveal that it this time is the cultures that have an Islamic religion are spreading rapidly and muslim and christianity don't mix well (to make an understatement.) Eventually christian society's have to accept that they'll be outnumbered and see their society's taken over or they decide to fight back.

marton · #**1070** 10.09.2018, 14:27

	Quote:	amogles
	If you break it down regioanaly, it becomes even more apparent. In many areas of Malmö, the SD came out as strongest party. If the SD can build on that it's going to give them a lot of muscle in municipal and regional elections. These are areas that have not just recently awoken to the concept that migration even exists, but areas that have been seeing it for decades, and where the problems are not going to go away overnight. One possibility is that the SD might fritter all that support away with infighting and silliness. Another is that they can build on it and start making their weight felt.

The municipal and regional elections were also yesterday so did the SD do well?

If not they will have to wait until next time around?

marton · #**1071** 10.09.2018, 14:33

	Quote:	EdwinNL
	Must be nice to believe this. I on the other think that the worst has yet to come, history teaches us that cultures and religions come and go, they conquer or get conquered and the numbers reveal that it this time is the cultures that have an Islamic religion are spreading rapidly and muslim and christianity don't mix well (to make an understatement.) Eventually christian society's have to accept that they'll be outnumbered and see their society's taken over or they decide to fight back.

Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions so should mix well, there are many countries where they do like Indonesia that has 10% Christians.

amogles · #**1072** 10.09.2018, 14:34

	Quote:	marton
	The municipal and regional elections were also yesterday so did the SD do well? If not they will have to wait until next time around?

	Quote:
	n Skåne county, in the south, the Sweden Democrats have become the biggest party in 20 of the 33 municipalities in Skåne

source: https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artike...rtikel=7040093

amogles · #**1073** 10.09.2018, 14:36

	Quote:	marton
	Fewer refugees fleeing war torn countries. Wars coming to an end allowing some refugees to return home. Refugee population maturing and becoming better integrated.

are you accepting bets on whether any of this will actually happen?

EdwinNL · #**1074** 10.09.2018, 15:19

	Quote:	marton
	Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions so should mix well, there are many countries where they do like Indonesia that has 10% Christians.

Seeing Indonesia as proof that Muslim and Christianity mix well.

You are even more blind than I thought. Worst of it all is that you choose to be blind.

Pashosh · #**1075** 10.09.2018, 15:25

	Quote:	marton
	Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions so should mix well, there are many countries where they do like Indonesia that has 10% Christians.

It worked really well in East Timor and elsewhere.

taduncombe · #**1076** 10.09.2018, 19:40

	Quote:	marton
	Fewer refugees fleeing war torn countries. Wars coming to an end allowing some refugees to return home. Refugee population maturing and becoming better integrated.

Refugees will certainly become better-integrated over time, but sadly, I believe it will be overshadowed by more refugees for the next 5+ years.

There are many more displaced Syrian refugees in the region (3.5M in Turkey, ~1M in Lebanon, ~1M in Jordan) than there are in Europe (~1M) currently. Assad is a vicious dictator that will soon have full control of his country after he slaughters/displaces the ~3M in Idlib. It doesn't seem likely to me many Syrians will be keen on reintegrating into Assad's dictatorship. They'll keep on coming, and the demagogues will continue dishing their fear-mongering. I see the far-right being strong for the next 5 years.

Hopefully, unorthodox political coalitions can hold strong to keep the worst of them at bay. Despite the US's dramatic turn toward nativism and idiocy in 2016, I think they'll bounce back faster than Europe.

esto · #**1077** 13.09.2018, 15:30

	Quote:
	The Dalai Lama was speaking at a conference called 'The Art of Happiness and Peace' in Sweden's third-largest city of Malmö on September 12 when he told the audience 'Europe belongs to Europeans' and that refugees should eventually return back to their native countries to rebuild them The exiled spiritual leader, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, has also made similar comments concerning refugees in Germany in 2016. Speaking to German reporters in 2016 he said: 'Europe, for example Germany, cannot become an Arab country. Germany is Germany.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art..._campaign=1490

Golden.

Sandgrounder · #**1078** 27.09.2018, 08:05

Surreal...

esto · #**1079** 01.02.2019, 19:58

	Quote:
	In an attempt to combat segregation, the government plans to cut funding for asylum seekers who move to areas with socio-economic problems.

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artike...rtikel=7145763

Fascinating. It seems the Swedish government admits there is a problem with migrant ghettos (that's "vulnerable areas" in Swedish)...AND... that the problem exists because the migrants go to live there purposely ie: not because they have no other options of where to live, or are "outcast" by the indigenous Swedish population (some like to paint that picture). On the contrary, rather than integrate and blend into Swedish society, they choose to build up their own areas and create a separate "state-within-a-state". Which apparently the Swedish government now recognizes as problematic and aims to prevent.

Swedes are definitely not stupid, just maybe a little slow and naive sometimes...