True, and something I have always rolled by eyes at, when people say the EU is the UK’s biggest trading partner so they will have to do what they say. I mean, I do most of my shopping in Coop, does that mean they have to listen to me? No, of course not, because to Coop I am insignificant.
However, that fact that CH is the third (after Eu and US) should mean that the UK should be negotiating and working with CH, even if CH doesn’t listen (Their biggest is also EU, they are not going to upset them).

6% of all Swiss exports worth $17bn to a small island is not bad at all... it is more than to China http://www.worldstopexports.com/swit...port-partners/

The UK exports roughly the same amount (a bit more) to CH too http://www.worldstopexports.com/unit...port-partners/

Considering the size of these countries, it is a significant amount that is in both their interests to preserve, and no amount of disingenuous quarterly figure-plucking can change that. In fact I have no idea what you thought your point was.

Actually your link corroborates the statement that CH is the UK's second largest export market outside the EU. Positions 2-4 in that table are EU countries.

Tobias seems to be on a mission to prove to the interwebs that he is an emotional, arm-flapping plonker who can't think rationally and objectively. Most amusing.

"Most amusing" always screams of anally retentive pomposity somehow. It's a smug, self congratulatory titter where a full blown belly laugh would be 'unbecoming'. My favourite arm-flapper...

Nice personal attack there! That's a helpful contribution to the thread. And what reliable source did you cut and paste your statistics from? Wish we had met at the roadshow, I could have then put a face to the arrogant RD!

Lol

Clash of the Right 'Uns

I used http://www.worldstopexports.com but the point wasn't the source used, but that you couldn't actually read the source that you did have correctly.

I'll be happy to let you put a name to my chirpy wee face at the next roadshow!

And I'll be the one dressed like this... (in my dreams)

Indeed, the UK might be OK with peeing off our biggest partner (EU) in favour of our second (US), but I don't think Switzerland are stupid enough to pee of their biggest partner (EU) to please their second (UK). Because... yeah.... EU is their biggest trading partner, they rely on the bi-laterals, and they are surrounded by EU borders (apart from Lichtenstein, but they are also surrounded).

Just an idea...but I think we should all go the next roadshow in fancy dress. Reckon they'd let us in?

Just received the following from the British Embassy

British Nationals Roadshow in Zug, on 26 April 2018.

Beat me to it by 3 minutes

Oh that is a bit rich pooch

Many, many thanks for that detailed breakdown of what the UK Ambassador said at that meeting. It is of particular interest to me as I am very interested in exercising my FOM rights to move permanently to Switzerland before the end of the Transition Period, assuming of course, that it goes ahead as planned.

Was there any information given about what will happen - from the Swiss side - to UK nationals who move to Switzerland during the Transition Period and then stay after it ends at the end of 2020? Especially regarding work/residency permits, would any changes enacted by the Swiss government to the ability of UK nationals to obtain work/ residency permits after the end of 2020 be retroactive to those who arrive during the Transition Period, or would they only apply to anyone who arrives after it ends? That is particularly relevant to me so if anyone can answer that question I would be most grateful.

Would anyone be able to post a breakdown of the Zug meeting after it has taken place? Any new information on the intended status of UK nationals after the end of the Transition Period (for those who move to Switzerland during the Transition Period), especially regarding their eligibility for employment compared to EU/EFTA state nationals, and obtaining residency permits after the end of 2020, is of great interest to me.

If anyone can attend that meeting and leave a detailed account on here, I would be very grateful to them.

My thanks also for your most interesting post.


As far as restoring voting rights are concerned (Point No 7), would this mean that voting rights would be restored irrespective of the length of time an individual has lived outside the UK?


Thanks again for your post.

Realistically it is very hard to see how Switzerland can give better terms to the U.K. than to any other third country even if they want to. First you can expect that the EU will insist that we comply with the bilateral agreement and other third countries like the US, Canada etc. will demand the same rights. And you can expect the SVP to kick off some kind of referendum or other. No exactly the kind of can of worms any politician wants to open up.

Is it even clear that non EU member states are obligated to honor this transition agreement? Without the negotiations being extended in accordance with A50, the UK’s membership ends in Mar. 2019. Any transaction agreement beyond that is between the EU and the U.K. How you bind countries that are not party to the agreement I’d know.

__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela

I cannot say for sure whether the Swiss would be obligated to honour the Transition Period, but I don't personally see what they would have to lose, as it is time-limited anyway? Also, to take one example, suddenly removing the existing Swiss employment/residency rights from UK nationals on 29/3/19 would cause immediate problems for employees in the ski industry, as the 2018-19 season would not be over for several weeks after that date. Disrupting the operations of ski holiday businesses by forcing their UK-national employees, or indeed their UK national guests, to leave before the end of the season is not likely to endear the Swiss authorities to those businesses, as it would disrupt what by then will be well-organised, efficient operations, in a highly competitive industry where a consistent quality of service is essential!

From eng_ch's post, it seems that the UK Ambassador said in Vaduz:

3. Now the transition period has been agreed this week, nothing will change until after 31.12.2020; that also applies to UK citizens looking to move to Switzerland as EU citizens

- I take this to mean that Switzerland will honour the Transition Period, and that UK nationals will continue to enjoy their EU FOM rights until the end of 2020?

4. After that nobody really knows, because negotiations on that are only now "allowed" to start

- I take this to mean the post-2020 period, after the Transition Period concludes, which, as is mentioned in this point below:

- One chap asked whether CH will re-impose quotas on UK citizens after Brexit as a third country - answer nobody knows

5. UK/Swiss arrangements in the future are likely to be dependent on - or at least decided in light of - the UK/EU agreement, but both CH and UK have a strong interest in achieving some form of bilateral agreement, particularly on FOM

- I take this to mean that the Swiss will follow - to some extent - the deal struck between the UK and the EU, which would succeed the Transition Period after 31/12/20, maybe with their own tweaks on trade and FOM (maybe for certain areas of employment, like tourism, education, banking and retirees?).

6. The intention is that anyone who has already exercised their FOM rights should be able to continue as they are, but "onward movement" is more unlikely

- I take this to mean that UK nationals who have already moved to either other EU countries or Switzerland, will be able to stay there but not have FOM rights to move/work in other EU countries, in line with the present draft of the Withdrawal Agreement. I would assume, in line with point 3 quoted above, that this means that UK nationals FOM rights will remain in force until 31/12/20, when the Transition Period concludes. At that point, they will have to remain in their existing EU/Switzerland country of residence, and will not be able to freely move elsewhere in the EU from then on.

My point in my previous post was, how will the Swiss authorities treat UK nationals who already live in Switzerland, having moved there either before 29/3/19 or 31/12/20, as the UK Ambassador seemed to be saying that we could move to Switzerland under the existing rules prior to the end of the UK's Article 50 period, and prior to the end of the Transition Period? What would happen to us after those dates, but especially the latter one, is my concern, given my interest in moving to Switzerland prior to it, probably before Autumn next year. Last December, fellow EFS member Medea_Fleecestealer told me the following in a reply to my first post on here:

As a "non-EU" national if you wanted to change jobs your new employer might be required to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job since they have hiring priority - but again, we just don't know what's going to happen. I think it's unlikely that any change in UK nationals' status here would be retroactive, but the Swiss are also looking at changing the rules on getting and keeping all types of permits.

Admittedly, that it just her opinion, but I feel that she may be correct as:

1) It is unlikely that any new trade/immigration agreement, either between the UK and EU (and the UK government, from the lips of David Davis, has recently refused to rule-out offering EU citizens preferential treatment regarding migrating to the UK post-Brexit, also Theresa May effectively described the benefits of FOM for UK and EU citizens in her Mansion House speech last month), or for that matter, between the UK and Switzerland, can possibly be negotiated and agreed by 29/3/19, so for the Swiss to honour the Transition Period would allow more time for both future relationships to be worked out, and agreed, especially since the EU will not undertake the detailed negotiation of the future relationship with the UK until after 29/3/19, so the Swiss will not know how that relationship will look until well-into the Transition Period anyway.

2) Businesses, and UK/Swiss nationals in either country, will need at least 12 months to adapt to the new relationship between the UK and EU/Switzerland. Ski holiday companies (I am a matter of weeks away from applying to a UK-based one for a Chalet Staff job at their hotel in the Bernese Oberland for the 2018-19 season), will very shortly begin hiring staff for the 2018-19 season, and it is hardly good for the Swiss authorities reputation to suddenly change the employment/rules part-way through the season. The point of the Transition Period is to prevent such a legal cliff-edge scenario for businesses, and the Swiss are surely well-aware of that?

3) Any changes to the rights of UK nationals regarding their rights to come and live/work in Switzerland, are more likely to take effect on those wishing to come after the end of the Transition Period, purely because it would be clearer legally, and less disruptive to UK nationals already working/living there before 31/12/20, and to any businesses employing them. Whether their permit application status would be changed, say if they wanted to change jobs after 31/12/20, is the area I am most concerned about, as that to me seems more likely to happen, unless the Swiss authorities agree not to make such changes retroactive. But this would surely be part of the UK-Swiss future relationship negotiations, and cannot be predicted with any certainty at this point.

What about reciprocal Health agreements for UK OAPs retired in Switzerland with no Swiss pension or income (only UK)? Any idea?