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  #181  
Old 25.03.2018, 08:50
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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The UK is way down the table on trading partnerships with Switzerland, are people buying the BS from these roadshows, the U.K. makes up a meagre 4.8% Wiki it please

Even according to the office of statistics Switzerland is 5th as an export partner country and 7th as a import partner country.
True, and something I have always rolled by eyes at, when people say the EU is the UK’s biggest trading partner so they will have to do what they say. I mean, I do most of my shopping in Coop, does that mean they have to listen to me? No, of course not, because to Coop I am insignificant.
However, that fact that CH is the third (after Eu and US) should mean that the UK should be negotiating and working with CH, even if CH doesn’t listen (Their biggest is also EU, they are not going to upset them).
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  #182  
Old 25.03.2018, 09:12
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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The UK is way down the table on trading partnerships with Switzerland, are people buying the BS from these roadshows, the U.K. makes up a meagre 4.8% Wiki it please

Even according to the office of statistics Switzerland is 5th as an export partner country and 7th as a import partner country.
6% of all Swiss exports worth $17bn to a small island is not bad at all... it is more than to China http://www.worldstopexports.com/swit...port-partners/

The UK exports roughly the same amount (a bit more) to CH too http://www.worldstopexports.com/unit...port-partners/

Considering the size of these countries, it is a significant amount that is in both their interests to preserve, and no amount of disingenuous quarterly figure-plucking can change that. In fact I have no idea what you thought your point was.

Last edited by Chuff; 25.03.2018 at 09:44.
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  #183  
Old 25.03.2018, 09:43
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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The UK is way down the table on trading partnerships with Switzerland, are people buying the BS from these roadshows, the U.K. makes up a meagre 4.8% Wiki it please

Even according to the office of statistics Switzerland is 5th as an export partner country and 7th as a import partner country.
Actually your link corroborates the statement that CH is the UK's second largest export market outside the EU. Positions 2-4 in that table are EU countries.
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  #184  
Old 25.03.2018, 09:45
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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Actually your link corroborates the statement that CH is the UK's second largest export market outside the EU. Positions 2-4 in that table are EU countries.
Tobias seems to be on a mission to prove to the interwebs that he is an emotional, arm-flapping plonker who can't think rationally and objectively. Most amusing.
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  #185  
Old 25.03.2018, 15:22
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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Tobias seems to be on a mission to prove to the interwebs that he is an emotional, arm-flapping plonker who can't think rationally and objectively. Most amusing.
"Most amusing" always screams of anally retentive pomposity somehow. It's a smug, self congratulatory titter where a full blown belly laugh would be 'unbecoming'. My favourite arm-flapper...

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  #186  
Old 26.03.2018, 11:28
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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Tobias seems to be on a mission to prove to the interwebs that he is an emotional, arm-flapping plonker who can't think rationally and objectively. Most amusing.
Nice personal attack there! That's a helpful contribution to the thread. And what reliable source did you cut and paste your statistics from? Wish we had met at the roadshow, I could have then put a face to the arrogant RD!
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  #187  
Old 26.03.2018, 11:29
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

Lol

Clash of the Right 'Uns

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  #188  
Old 26.03.2018, 15:09
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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Nice personal attack there! That's a helpful contribution to the thread. And what reliable source did you cut and paste your statistics from? Wish we had met at the roadshow, I could have then put a face to the arrogant RD!
I used http://www.worldstopexports.com but the point wasn't the source used, but that you couldn't actually read the source that you did have correctly.

I'll be happy to let you put a name to my chirpy wee face at the next roadshow!
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  #189  
Old 26.03.2018, 15:39
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

And I'll be the one dressed like this... (in my dreams)

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  #190  
Old 26.03.2018, 17:19
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

Indeed, the UK might be OK with peeing off our biggest partner (EU) in favour of our second (US), but I don't think Switzerland are stupid enough to pee of their biggest partner (EU) to please their second (UK). Because... yeah.... EU is their biggest trading partner, they rely on the bi-laterals, and they are surrounded by EU borders (apart from Lichtenstein, but they are also surrounded).
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  #191  
Old 26.03.2018, 18:08
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

Just an idea...but I think we should all go the next roadshow in fancy dress. Reckon they'd let us in?
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  #192  
Old 12.04.2018, 16:58
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

Just received the following from the British Embassy

British Nationals Roadshow in Zug,
on 26 April 2018.

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Dear all,

Thank you for your interest in our recent British Nationals Roadshows; if you were able to attend, we hope you found it useful.

Please see below for compilation of useful links and sources of information to help you stay informed about Brexit.


Additional Roadshow

Due to popular demand, we are arranging an additional British Nationals Roadshow in Zug, on 26 April 2018.

The event will follow the same format as the events held in February and March and offer the same information. The event will start at 5.30pm and finish at7.00pm. Admission opens at 5.00pm.

If you, friends or family would like to attend, please register by emailing us at info.berne@fco.gov.uk with the subject “British Nationals Roadshow Zug” including your full name by Friday, 20 April 2018. You will receive an automatic reply, but rest assured we will respond to your RSVP to confirm whether you have a place.

Please note that spaces are limited and will be allocated on a first come, first served basis.


Want to stay informed?

For the latest news on Brexit and to sign up for email alerts, visit the UK Nationals in the EU page. This has updates for UK citizens living in the EU, as well as updates for those living in Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

This page is kept up to date and contains the latest information on the EU citizens’ rights agreement. The information at this stage is fairly general and primarily focussed on the EU deal due to the stage of the negotiations. This is particularly true for Switzerland, where our talks with the Swiss are ongoing.

We are currently streamlining and updating our living in country guides. Once we are clear about any new registration/administrative processes to be implemented by Switzerland and Liechtenstein, for example, these will be clearly signposted in these guides.


Social media

Follow us on Facebook and Twitter for the latest updates:

Facebook: UK in Switzerland - British Embassy Berne, and the Road to Brexitpage

Twitter: @UKEmbassyBerne


Business and trade

Please send your enquiries related to UK-Switzerland trade and investment on the part of UK businesses to: info.berne@fco.gov.uk

Further information is available from the following websites:

https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/department-for-international-trade-switzerland

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exporting-to-switzerland/doing-business-in-switzerland-switzerland-trade-and-export-guide


General contact details

British Embassy Berne
Thunstrasse 50
3005 Berne
Switzerland

Email: info.berne@fco.gov.uk
Telephone +41 (0)31 359 77 00

Website: https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-embassy-berne


Best regards,

British Embassy Berne
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  #193  
Old 12.04.2018, 17:01
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

Beat me to it by 3 minutes
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  #194  
Old 12.04.2018, 17:36
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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Tobias seems to be on a mission to prove to the interwebs that he is an emotional, arm-flapping plonker who can't think rationally and objectively. Most amusing.
Oh that is a bit rich pooch
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  #195  
Old 14.04.2018, 16:05
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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I attended the event in Vaduz yesterday evening; I'll try and remember most of it, apologies if I miss anything. It was a slightly different affair from the large events in Zurich and Basel. There were only 11 attendees so everyone got to ask lots of questions, and just the Ambassador talking, no project screens or video links or anything. The ambassador - inevitably I guess - was putting forward the views of the UK govt in its current flavour but seemed to have boned up a lot more compared with what previous posters have reported from the Basel and Zurich events.

General points:
1. There are 40,000 British citizens in CH [so few?] and 57 in FL.
2. CH is the UK's 2nd biggest export market outside the EU - only the US is larger
3. Now the transition period has been agreed this week, nothing will change until after 31.12.2020; that also applies to UK citizens looking to move to Switzerland as EU citizens
4. After that nobody really knows, because negotiations on that are only now "allowed" to start
5. UK/Swiss arrangements in the future are likely to be dependent on - or at least decided in light of - the UK/EU agreement, but both CH and UK have a strong interest in achieving some form of bilateral agreement, particularly on FOM
6. The intention is that anyone who has already exercised their FOM rights should be able to continue as they are, but "onward movement" is more unlikely
7. There is a private member's bill currently going through parliament to abolish the 15-year absence limit on voting rights, which is expected to go through smoothly, so those of us who have been out of the country for over 15 years will soon have our voting rights restored

In response to questions re after 31.12.2020:
- UK state pensions for EU/CH residents should continue to be uplifted along with those for UK residents as now
- EU students currently studying in the UK and those starting in autumn 2018 & 2019 will be able to finish their 3-year course no problem. Those starting in autumn 2020 have a question mark as there is a proposal that they will only be able to study for 2 years, which the ambassador said she felt is a bit odd given that UK courses are min 3 years
- One chap asked whether CH will re-impose quotas on UK citizens after Brexit as a third country - answer nobody knows
- Some people asking about their B permit status, what if they needed to leave CH for a couple of years for work then wanted to come back because their life is now here
- A question about being forced to move all your money out of CH back to the UK and close accounts here if you (are forced to) leave after Brexit and the tax implications and costs of that
- One chap grew up in London and did his schooling and university in the UK, but he and his whole family hold German passports, only his mother and younger sister hold UK passports - question, what happens if he wanted to return to the UK or e.g. needed to care for his British citizen mother? Ambassador didn't know; he would have to move back to the UK before Dec 2020 to take up residence to even have a chance of British citizenship
- Re my situation with the delivery of cross-border services with self-employed status, I've been asked to e-mail the ambassador because she was unaware of the provisions of the EU draft withdrawal agreement, partic. Art 32. She was assuring us that a self-employed UK citizen living in France would be able to work in CH as a frontalier, but hadn't considered that Art 32 on the face of it would appear to prevent a self-employed UK citizen living in CH from delivering services in France. She seem to confirm to me that the EU/CH bilaterals as they stand do not cover services. She said Art 32 as it seems to read is not what she understands both sides to want to achieve (see general point 6 above) and it is one she seems interested in raising with the UK govt
- I asked about whether the UK govt would support the moves from NL to take the issue of EU citizenship/possibility of associate EU citizenship to the European Court (Art 20 of Lisbon states that EU citizenship is additional to national citizenship) and the ambassador's response was that the European Commission is strongly against it and has deemed it illegal. To which my response was, I don't care what the Commission says, because they have vested interests just like anyone else - I care about whether the UK govt is going fight for the existing rights of its citizens abroad. I wasn't very reassured with the tenor of the response.


In summary: it was definitely a useful event to go to; there was, as expected, a lot of "we just don't know yet" but it clarified that that now relates to post 2020 i.e. there is now a little more breathing space. I was impressed that everyone in attendance was very pragmatic and non-political. I had expected some heated views on whether or not Brexit should or should not happen and some recriminations over the whole thing, but the only issue on which frustration was expressed was from those of us who had been denied the right to vote in the referendum. Otherwise it was very much focused on where do we go from here and how will it affect individual situations. The focus, unsurprisingly, was mostly on FOM.
Many, many thanks for that detailed breakdown of what the UK Ambassador said at that meeting. It is of particular interest to me as I am very interested in exercising my FOM rights to move permanently to Switzerland before the end of the Transition Period, assuming of course, that it goes ahead as planned.

Was there any information given about what will happen - from the Swiss side - to UK nationals who move to Switzerland during the Transition Period and then stay after it ends at the end of 2020? Especially regarding work/residency permits, would any changes enacted by the Swiss government to the ability of UK nationals to obtain work/ residency permits after the end of 2020 be retroactive to those who arrive during the Transition Period, or would they only apply to anyone who arrives after it ends? That is particularly relevant to me so if anyone can answer that question I would be most grateful.
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  #196  
Old 14.04.2018, 16:29
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

Would anyone be able to post a breakdown of the Zug meeting after it has taken place? Any new information on the intended status of UK nationals after the end of the Transition Period (for those who move to Switzerland during the Transition Period), especially regarding their eligibility for employment compared to EU/EFTA state nationals, and obtaining residency permits after the end of 2020, is of great interest to me.

If anyone can attend that meeting and leave a detailed account on here, I would be very grateful to them.
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  #197  
Old 14.04.2018, 16:37
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

My thanks also for your most interesting post.


As far as restoring voting rights are concerned (Point No 7), would this mean that voting rights would be restored irrespective of the length of time an individual has lived outside the UK?


Thanks again for your post.
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  #198  
Old 14.04.2018, 18:45
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

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Was there any information given about what will happen - from the Swiss side - to UK nationals who move to Switzerland during the Transition Period and then stay after it ends at the end of 2020? Especially regarding work/residency permits, would any changes enacted by the Swiss government to the ability of UK nationals to obtain work/ residency permits after the end of 2020 be retroactive to those who arrive during the Transition Period, or would they only apply to anyone who arrives after it ends? That is particularly relevant to me so if anyone can answer that question I would be most grateful.
Realistically it is very hard to see how Switzerland can give better terms to the U.K. than to any other third country even if they want to. First you can expect that the EU will insist that we comply with the bilateral agreement and other third countries like the US, Canada etc. will demand the same rights. And you can expect the SVP to kick off some kind of referendum or other. No exactly the kind of can of worms any politician wants to open up.

Is it even clear that non EU member states are obligated to honor this transition agreement? Without the negotiations being extended in accordance with A50, the UK’s membership ends in Mar. 2019. Any transaction agreement beyond that is between the EU and the U.K. How you bind countries that are not party to the agreement I’d know.
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Old 14.04.2018, 20:10
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

I cannot say for sure whether the Swiss would be obligated to honour the Transition Period, but I don't personally see what they would have to lose, as it is time-limited anyway? Also, to take one example, suddenly removing the existing Swiss employment/residency rights from UK nationals on 29/3/19 would cause immediate problems for employees in the ski industry, as the 2018-19 season would not be over for several weeks after that date. Disrupting the operations of ski holiday businesses by forcing their UK-national employees, or indeed their UK national guests, to leave before the end of the season is not likely to endear the Swiss authorities to those businesses, as it would disrupt what by then will be well-organised, efficient operations, in a highly competitive industry where a consistent quality of service is essential!

From eng_ch's post, it seems that the UK Ambassador said in Vaduz:

3. Now the transition period has been agreed this week, nothing will change until after 31.12.2020; that also applies to UK citizens looking to move to Switzerland as EU citizens

- I take this to mean that Switzerland will honour the Transition Period, and that UK nationals will continue to enjoy their EU FOM rights until the end of 2020?

4. After that nobody really knows, because negotiations on that are only now "allowed" to start

- I take this to mean the post-2020 period, after the Transition Period concludes, which, as is mentioned in this point below:

- One chap asked whether CH will re-impose quotas on UK citizens after Brexit as a third country - answer nobody knows

5. UK/Swiss arrangements in the future are likely to be dependent on - or at least decided in light of - the UK/EU agreement, but both CH and UK have a strong interest in achieving some form of bilateral agreement, particularly on FOM

- I take this to mean that the Swiss will follow - to some extent - the deal struck between the UK and the EU, which would succeed the Transition Period after 31/12/20, maybe with their own tweaks on trade and FOM (maybe for certain areas of employment, like tourism, education, banking and retirees?).

6. The intention is that anyone who has already exercised their FOM rights should be able to continue as they are, but "onward movement" is more unlikely

- I take this to mean that UK nationals who have already moved to either other EU countries or Switzerland, will be able to stay there but not have FOM rights to move/work in other EU countries, in line with the present draft of the Withdrawal Agreement. I would assume, in line with point 3 quoted above, that this means that UK nationals FOM rights will remain in force until 31/12/20, when the Transition Period concludes. At that point, they will have to remain in their existing EU/Switzerland country of residence, and will not be able to freely move elsewhere in the EU from then on.

My point in my previous post was, how will the Swiss authorities treat UK nationals who already live in Switzerland, having moved there either before 29/3/19 or 31/12/20, as the UK Ambassador seemed to be saying that we could move to Switzerland under the existing rules prior to the end of the UK's Article 50 period, and prior to the end of the Transition Period? What would happen to us after those dates, but especially the latter one, is my concern, given my interest in moving to Switzerland prior to it, probably before Autumn next year. Last December, fellow EFS member Medea_Fleecestealer told me the following in a reply to my first post on here:

As a "non-EU" national if you wanted to change jobs your new employer might be required to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job since they have hiring priority - but again, we just don't know what's going to happen. I think it's unlikely that any change in UK nationals' status here would be retroactive, but the Swiss are also looking at changing the rules on getting and keeping all types of permits.

Admittedly, that it just her opinion, but I feel that she may be correct as:

1) It is unlikely that any new trade/immigration agreement, either between the UK and EU (and the UK government, from the lips of David Davis, has recently refused to rule-out offering EU citizens preferential treatment regarding migrating to the UK post-Brexit, also Theresa May effectively described the benefits of FOM for UK and EU citizens in her Mansion House speech last month), or for that matter, between the UK and Switzerland, can possibly be negotiated and agreed by 29/3/19, so for the Swiss to honour the Transition Period would allow more time for both future relationships to be worked out, and agreed, especially since the EU will not undertake the detailed negotiation of the future relationship with the UK until after 29/3/19, so the Swiss will not know how that relationship will look until well-into the Transition Period anyway.

2) Businesses, and UK/Swiss nationals in either country, will need at least 12 months to adapt to the new relationship between the UK and EU/Switzerland. Ski holiday companies (I am a matter of weeks away from applying to a UK-based one for a Chalet Staff job at their hotel in the Bernese Oberland for the 2018-19 season), will very shortly begin hiring staff for the 2018-19 season, and it is hardly good for the Swiss authorities reputation to suddenly change the employment/rules part-way through the season. The point of the Transition Period is to prevent such a legal cliff-edge scenario for businesses, and the Swiss are surely well-aware of that?

3) Any changes to the rights of UK nationals regarding their rights to come and live/work in Switzerland, are more likely to take effect on those wishing to come after the end of the Transition Period, purely because it would be clearer legally, and less disruptive to UK nationals already working/living there before 31/12/20, and to any businesses employing them. Whether their permit application status would be changed, say if they wanted to change jobs after 31/12/20, is the area I am most concerned about, as that to me seems more likely to happen, unless the Swiss authorities agree not to make such changes retroactive. But this would surely be part of the UK-Swiss future relationship negotiations, and cannot be predicted with any certainty at this point.
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Old 14.04.2018, 20:43
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Re: Brexit (and other UK stuff) information roadshow in Swizterland

What about reciprocal Health agreements for UK OAPs retired in Switzerland with no Swiss pension or income (only UK)? Any idea?
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