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  #81  
Old 10.03.2018, 01:13
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Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

Seven Questions on Expropriating Land without Compensation - article dates 1st March 2018.
https://www.moneyweb.co.za/news/sout...-compensation/
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  #82  
Old 10.03.2018, 17:20
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

I can assure you the people whose lands were taken, including District Seven in CT- did NOT receive compensation
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  #83  
Old 10.03.2018, 20:34
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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I can assure you the people whose lands were taken, including District Seven in CT- did NOT receive compensation
I fully believe this. Since then much of the land has changed hands many times, and it's going to be a tough argument that "you have to give up the land you paid for because someone else stole it X years ago". As others have said, land has been stolen by the colonizing parties and war-winners the world over for centuries. That doesn't make it right, btw.

Some of the land, such as that along the Garden Route, was only sparsely populated by the Khoikhoi way back during colonization. They were gradually forced out of that area thanks to multiple invaders from the sea, and now the majority of the remaining population live in the Kalahari.

Should the current government give that bit of land back to the Khoikhoi and their descendants, or is it okay to redistribute it to anyone else presently in SA so long as the color of their skin is right?

What about the millions of SA residents that are not originally from the SA area? Should Zimbabweans and Nigerians (for example) that have migrated get a slice of land? How does the government determine who's "black" enough to get the land? What about the Cape Colored people? What do they get, if anything?

You don't have to answer these questions of course. But they're going to come up and the government will need to address them. This decision is full of complications that have the potential to turn into a huge disaster.
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  #84  
Old 11.03.2018, 07:57
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

Forget indigenous people and who grabbed and what first in the past. The citizens will decide about the future of the land:

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...abs-20180311-2
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  #85  
Old 11.03.2018, 14:16
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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Forget indigenous people and who grabbed and what first in the past. The citizens will decide about the future of the land:

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...abs-20180311-2
Surely the whole point of this exercise it to correct or at least mitigate some injustices from the past though? You can't forget the past as you try to shape the future. To do so would be folly. The indigenous people should have as many rights in the redistribution as "modern" blacks, if you want to phrase it that way.

It's good they are going to do listening meetings and that citizens will have input. That's how it should be.
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Old 11.03.2018, 14:52
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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It's good they are going to do listening meetings and that citizens will have input. That's how it should be.
Asking people if they would like to confiscate land from their rich neighbors is how it should be.

Can't see any chance of this democratic process going wrong.
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Old 11.03.2018, 15:54
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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Asking people if they would like to confiscate land from their rich neighbors is how it should be.

Can't see any chance of this democratic process going wrong.
That's a little bit unfair, isn't it? Maybe many of the poor don't care how it's done they just want what they think they deserve. However there are also many citizens, black and white, who care about the country as a whole and have seen the effects on their own country thanks to the disaster next door.

The rich neighbors get input too. In fact they are more likely to be able to show up at the feedback meetings, and to send letters to the authorities with ideas/protests/whatever, than poor people in townships.

It's a nice sound byte for the ANC and EFF to imply everyone is going to get a chunk of land for free. It's another to implement redistribution in such a manner that SA doesn't wind up as another Zim.

Honestly, I think in the short term this is about shoring up votes and they'll drag the rest on for quite a while.
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Old 11.03.2018, 16:08
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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That's a little bit unfair, isn't it? Maybe many of the poor don't care how it's done they just want what they think they deserve. However there are also many citizens, black and white, who care about the country as a whole and have seen the effects on their own country thanks to the disaster next door.

The rich neighbors get input too. In fact they are more likely to be able to show up at the feedback meetings, and to send letters to the authorities with ideas/protests/whatever, than poor people in townships.

It's a nice sound byte for the ANC and EFF to imply everyone is going to get a chunk of land for free. It's another to implement redistribution in such a manner that SA doesn't wind up as another Zim.

Honestly, I think in the short term this is about shoring up votes and they'll drag the rest on for quite a while.
As ypu said, it's a populist approach - "taking from the rich and giving to the poor".

The ANC now voted for confiscation, and their base are "the poor who don't care how it's done", it will be hard for them to stop confiscations.
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  #89  
Old 15.03.2018, 22:45
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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As ypu said, it's a populist approach - "taking from the rich and giving to the poor".

The ANC now voted for confiscation, and their base are "the poor who don't care how it's done", it will be hard for them to stop confiscations.
Is it? Or is it late justice?
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  #90  
Old 16.03.2018, 08:42
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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That's a little bit unfair, isn't it? Maybe many of the poor don't care how it's done they just want what they think they deserve. However there are also many citizens, black and white, who care about the country as a whole and have seen the effects on their own country thanks to the disaster next door.

The rich neighbors get input too. In fact they are more likely to be able to show up at the feedback meetings, and to send letters to the authorities with ideas/protests/whatever, than poor people in townships.

It's a nice sound byte for the ANC and EFF to imply everyone is going to get a chunk of land for free. It's another to implement redistribution in such a manner that SA doesn't wind up as another Zim.

Honestly, I think in the short term this is about shoring up votes and they'll drag the rest on for quite a while.
It will be interesting to see who will get what and how many people will be still left outside of this righteous redistribution. If they feel they'll solve poverty...hmm, maybe it will help somehow, but they're at least one hundred years late for this kind of things. They should focus on other things, more lucrative and less "revolutionary". Maybe there is a need for this, but I doubt it will solve inequalities in the long run. Oh well, we'll watch the world unfold..
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  #91  
Old 16.03.2018, 08:56
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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It will be interesting to see who will get what and how many people will be still left outside of this righteous redistribution. If they feel they'll solve poverty...hmm, maybe it will help somehow, but they're at least one hundred years late for this kind of things. They should focus on other things, more lucrative and less "revolutionary". Maybe there is a need for this, but I doubt it will solve inequalities in the long run. Oh well, we'll watch the world unfold..
I absolutely agree. This whole land expropriation debate should take second to none priority to other more serious problems facing our economy at the moment.

https://www.fin24.com/Economy/South-...cture-20180316
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  #92  
Old 16.03.2018, 09:11
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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Is it? Or is it late justice?
It's definitely populist to offer magic cure. The ANC failed to deliver solutions, is plagued with corruption - confiscating land will serve as a distraction.

Modern or Traditional Agriculture can't solve poverty.
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  #93  
Old 16.03.2018, 11:54
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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It will be interesting to see who will get what and how many people will be still left outside of this righteous redistribution. If they feel they'll solve poverty...hmm, maybe it will help somehow, but they're at least one hundred years late for this kind of things. They should focus on other things, more lucrative and less "revolutionary". Maybe there is a need for this, but I doubt it will solve inequalities in the long run. Oh well, we'll watch the world unfold..
In the short term, this statement will have created huge levels of uncertainty, meaning nobody in their right state of mind will pay the market price for land any more. In other words, the government has managed to decimate the value of land, meaning farmers planning to sell up and retire may be facing a huge dilemma, as well as those whose loans and mortgages are dependent on the value of their land. Maybe this is part of the policy. The government maybe wants to see farmers and farms fail out of lust for revenge.
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Old 16.03.2018, 12:43
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

Oh great, that means that the family of my ex who owned land in East Prussia for generations can get it all back?
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  #95  
Old 16.03.2018, 13:09
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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Oh great, that means that the family of my ex who owned land in East Prussia for generations can get it all back?
If you'd like to look at it from Ramaphosa's statements, then only as long as the land expropriation does not negatively impact food security or the economy.
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Old 16.03.2018, 13:38
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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If you'd like to look at it from Ramaphosa's statements, then only as long as the land expropriation does not negatively impact food security or the economy.
Ahem, he said East Prussia not East Pretoria...


(slammer> maybe, if your ex has documents to prove it and this is not some family legend)
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Old 16.03.2018, 13:40
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

Yes, I did see that, thanks. And took Slammer's joke.
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  #98  
Old 16.03.2018, 15:52
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

Interesting to see Australia is considering offering facilitated immigration visa procedures for white South African farmers. This seems to have offended the government but what do they expect if they are going to confiscate land, then the farmers are going to look to getting out ASAP!
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Old 16.03.2018, 16:18
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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Interesting to see Australia is considering offering facilitated immigration visa procedures for white South African farmers. This seems to have offended the government but what do they expect if they are going to confiscate land, then the farmers are going to look to getting out ASAP!
Maybe it’s a strategic move and propaganda to give an SA’s ruling government a fright or a status quo. You make a move on economy building farmers, they will go elsewhere to cultivate the crops and you will redistribute the land amongst your people living them empty handed without proper skills to run the equipment.

Let’s hope the history of Zim won’t repeat itself and actions of war veterans style from the past will not take precedence in the country. Some talk about the worst possible outcome the new policy may trigger. Some believe that if the redistribution is planned very carefully and thoughtfully without infuriating the mob and further instigating riots on national scale, there’s a good chance it will take a positive turn. From celebrating Mandela’s heritage and long walk to freedom in 1994 to successful WC2010 to prosecuting Zuma on corruption charges in 2018, the RSA offers plethora of opportunities and can surprise us all the time ...

https://www.fin24.com/Economy/civil-...unter-20180316
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Old 16.03.2018, 16:20
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Re: Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?

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Interesting to see Australia is considering offering facilitated immigration visa procedures for white South African farmers. This seems to have offended the government but what do they expect if they are going to confiscate land, then the farmers are going to look to getting out ASAP!
Apparently many Zimbabwean white farmers moved to Zambia, encouraged to do so by the Zambian government. Today Zambia is exporting food to Zimbabwe even though some years back the opposite was true.

Some governments obviously recognize the value of people who understand farming, whereas other just see vile priveledge.
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