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marton 01.03.2018 20:30

Is South Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
White farmers in South Africa will have their property seized under a new law backed by Julius Malema, the revolutionary socialist leader of the country's opposition party."

On Tuesday, the National Assembly of South Africa voted 241-83 in favor of amending the Constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation.

The vote will now be studied by the nation's Constitutional Review Committee which must report back with its recommendation by Aug. 30.

Source

This policy was a disaster for Zimbabwe which in a few years changed from the "bread basket" of Africa to a country that had to import food to survive.

Seems unbelievable they will really do this?

Of course after the farms are gone I assume the Govt. will then turn to seizing hotels, golf courses, rich enclaves??

Guest 01.03.2018 21:38

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
I'd say Civil war is not to be avoided, this is just the next step leading towards it. The landowners and their communities have been arming and training themselves for over a decent amount of time now and will not give away their ground easily.

Jacob Zuma Singing "Shoot the Farmer, Kill the Boer" years ago, and the fact that for years already farmers are 4 times more likely to be murdered compared to the entire African average and widespread racism and openly expressed intense hatred up to the highest levels of politicians show us that it is not a question if Civil war will happen, but the only question is when will it happen.

Guest 01.03.2018 22:13

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Difference with Zimbabwe is also that there are 4,5 Million whites (from European Descent) in South Africa whereas Zimbabwe never had more than 300.000 a number which already had fallen down when Mugabe came in power and currently there are only about 25.000 whites in Zimbabwe, so they never could have made a real fist, the Whites in South Africa are large and strong enough to give the government and its supporters a real war for a long time to come if needed.

slammer 02.03.2018 06:25

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

I'd say Civil war is not to be avoided, this is just the next step leading towards it. The landowners and their communities have been arming and training themselves for over a decent amount of time now and will not give away their ground easily.

Jacob Zuma Singing "Shoot the Farmer, Kill the Boer" years ago, and the fact that for years already farmers are 4 times more likely to be murdered compared to the entire African average and widespread racism and openly expressed intense hatred up to the highest levels of politicians show us that it is not a question if Civil war will happen, but the only question is when will it happen.
I can almost hear the "told you so" of certain citizens raving about how right they were, that the country should have stayed with apardheit and that the "blecks" should never have gotten into power.

LuganoPirate 02.03.2018 07:44

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
It's a crazy policy. Even Zimbabwe has seen the error or it's ways as it looks to give white farmers their land back.

https://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimbab...eport-20180302

Guest 02.03.2018 07:57

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Africans gonna African.

LuganoPirate 02.03.2018 08:02

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Reading on, this is just a review Section 25 of the Constitution which concerns the right of property ownership. Ramaphosa has said people should not worry. He could be right and he doesn't want this to happen. It would severely damage the banks who are needed to help the economy as well as the government itself who has lent money to buy farms.

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...-drum-20180301

Troublawesome 02.03.2018 09:33

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Let them watch too much Black Panther and destroy their country for fun.

marton 02.03.2018 09:49

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Seems like a great way to stop all foreign investment in SA if the Govt. can simply take away the land that is the foundation for your investment, factory, shop, bank or whatever.

TobiasM 02.03.2018 10:01

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2916960)
Africans gonna African.

Constructive contribution there! :msncrazy:

slammer 02.03.2018 10:18

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2917003)
Constructive contribution there! :msncrazy:

African or Africanīt, Loz has a point there, "the west" has problems understanding African mentality, Some Africans would simply be amused at the westerners sense of outrage.

Guest 02.03.2018 10:33

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2917003)
Constructive contribution there! :msncrazy:

Did you not see how long it took them to get rid of Zuma? And now he's been replaced by a guy who reckons the answer to Africa's problems is a bit of ethnic cleansing.

kriss kross 02.03.2018 11:35

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Who could've seen this coming? :confused:

LuganoPirate 02.03.2018 11:45

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2916995)
Seems like a great way to stop all foreign investment in SA if the Govt. can simply take away the land that is the foundation for your investment, factory, shop, bank or whatever.

You're right, which is why it won't happen. Cyril is first and foremost a businessman, worth in excess of R.20 billion and he will want to protect that. He also wants to boost investment into SA and wants to create Free Trade Zones which needs bank support. The banks are heavily into giving loans to farms so will resist this strongly and many top ANC officials sit on the boards of banks.

The review is August and that will take 3 months at least. We then head into the election period and that is key.

The ANC are losing support and hope this will please the mainly poor black electorate. Once the elections are over it will be pushed into the long grass. Also, they need a two thirds majority to change the constitution. They do not have this, though if the EFF support them they will have the necessary votes though with the DA increasing its share and the ANC losing theirs, it remains to be seen.

Personally I think some deal will be done along the basis the land has been improved thus allowing some compensation to be paid - if it happens at all!

TobiasM 02.03.2018 13:28

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2917017)
Did you not see how long it took them to get rid of Zuma? And now he's been replaced by a guy who reckons the answer to Africa's problems is a bit of ethnic cleansing.

Zuma was so bad he had to go, definitely took way too long. It could be a case of out with the bad and in with the badder, let's see what bills he gets put through first. The world political scene seems to have lost its sense and appealing to a mass brainwashed by their own bubbles on social media is a sure fire way to get elected these days. regardless of whether the policies or promises are rational or just plain bat shit crazy. South Africa's recent timeline; Racist, corrupt government, replaced with not so racist not so corrupt government, replaced by several more racist and totally corrupt governments!

Guest 02.03.2018 13:37

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2917084)
Zuma was so bad he had to go, definitely took way too long. It could be a case of out with the bad and in with the badder, let's see what bills he gets put through first. The world political scene seems to have lost its sense and appealing to a mass brainwashed by their own bubbles on social media is a sure fire way to get elected these days. regardless of whether the policies or promises are rational or just plain bat shit crazy. South Africa's recent timeline; Racist, corrupt government, replaced with not so racist not so corrupt government, replaced by several more racist and totally corrupt governments!

So what's the lesson can we take from all this?

Africans gonna African :)

roostermike 02.03.2018 13:44

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Personally, I would tend to agree with LuganoPirate. Being South African myself, and also a property owner, am I a little nervous due to this? Of course, I wouldn't be human if I weren't. But am I worried, no, not really.

CR is a highly intelligent and strategically minded business man. He is worth closer to USD 500m, and add this to his wife's wealth of in excess of USD 1bn, means he has a lot of skin in the game. His wealth is divided up amongst a multitude of businesses in SA, and her wealth is from Mining. All of these require a functioning economy. Something like this would undermind that completely.

Land redistribution does need to occur. But it needs to be done correctly. Appropriation without compensation is not correct. But like others have said, we have no idea what the end result or model will look like. The review will happen until the end of August which includes a vigourous consultation period, which I would assume will lead to a significantly more palatable model than what the EFF is thinking of.

Fact is, the ANC's support has wained. This is likely a way of trying to garner back some votes for next years election. Personally though, I think it's a gamble, as the voters who this appeals to would have likely voted ANC or EFF anyway, so the chances that some voters get alienated by this policy could be quite high, particularly those in the medium income bracket who may have just bought property... This law if implemented in its extreme would affect all, as Malema was talking about 100 year leases, which would mean all property becomes fully state owned.

As I said, let's wait and see, but I don't think the extreme version which many are worried about will even remotely materialise.

CR's maneuvers up to now, indicate a very calculated and strategic thought process. I do not believe his strategy is to become another Zimbabwe. There are quite a few fundamental differences between the 2 countries, not least of which being that we are now in a completely different age compared to the days when Zimbabwe started to collapse.

Maybe I am biased due to being South African and owning property, but I would like to hope that this is the start of something good as opposed to the demise of a truly beautiful, multi-cultural and awe inspiring country that is South Africa.

LuganoPirate 02.03.2018 15:35

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
You make some very good points Roostermike.
I'm not South African but I do have property there and live on the garden Route 6 months a year (though I'm not a swallow - I do 2 months there and 2 months here) so I follow the situation quite closely.

Like you I get a bit nervous sometimes but am not really worried. Also due to history there's less justification for restitution in the Western Cape. I think the big nervousness is among the large scale farm owners in the Free State and Northern provinces.

Guest 02.03.2018 21:05

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
The likes of Malema or cANCer would be barking up the wrong tree if they thought seizing farmland is going to achieve anything positive.

Firstly, the modern trend is urbanisation, the masses (voters) are moving to the cities and are not interested in farming. They want to be involved in businesses.

https://www.news24.com/Columnists/Gu...erent-20180301

Secondly, farming in Southern Africa is in most cases very hard work and without substantial support (subsidisation from Govt) unlikely to be a viable long term option.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti.../#.Wpmm70xFwyM

The effects of Black Economic Empowerment (or whatever they call it now) on business / economy has as much if not more negative potential than the expropriation of land.

Problem is, expropriation of land makes headlines whereas BEE does not.

rainer_d 03.03.2018 00:20

Re: Is S. Africa planning to follow Zimbabwe and destroy its economy?
 
Even in Germany, it often turned out to be the best to return Eastern German farms to their pre-WW2 owners, after the re-unification.


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