 | | | 
07.03.2018, 15:19
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,131
Groaned at 2,736 Times in 1,931 Posts
Thanked 40,402 Times in 19,048 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | I'm much more familiar with the way southern Italians tend to debate. There were a few last minute campaign stands in Turin, but nothing compared to what I've seen before in Spain, Greece and the UK, and that surprised me. | | | | | Northern Italians are more rational than those from 'il Sud'.
Sort of the Italian equivalent of the Swiss!
Tom
| The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:22
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,131
Groaned at 2,736 Times in 1,931 Posts
Thanked 40,402 Times in 19,048 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Finally a country that understands the concept of second referendums. | | | | | I thought that was Ireland?
Tom
| The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,131
Groaned at 2,736 Times in 1,931 Posts
Thanked 40,402 Times in 19,048 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Greece has leant more towards Socialism and it seems that Italy is more in favour of Facism. | | | | | Same thing in the end.
Tom
| The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:26
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 132 Times in 116 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Instead of considering that people might actually be getting tired of the Liberal elite ... | | | | | I have yet to have anyone properly explain to me what this 'Liberal elite' is, who it is and how I'm part of it.  Using 'elite' anything is a huge, rational thinking cop out.
| The following 4 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:28
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Sure, there are also people on the left who are more open and actually cherish debate, but their voices are often drowned out. | | | | | Moderate voices are the 'victims'. Having a polarised view is the problem. | Quote: | |  | | | Not sure I follow you. <snip> No, most people laughed at it. As do to Russia's propaganda.
Nothing, as long as it's not forced/mandated as Liberal companies like Google are now trying to do. Diversity happens naturally, let it be that way. No need for social experiments. | | | | | Sorry to bring bad news, but Russia's meddling has indeed disproportionately influenced the landscape. See the El Pais link posted earlier. Brexit was influenced by the Troll Factory. Trump claims otherwise...
What a private company gets up to isn't really up for discussion. Politicians demonising minorities in society ought to be.
| This user would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:28
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,257
Groaned at 179 Times in 130 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Same thing in the end. 
Tom | | | | | Weeeell as Authoritarian dictatorships yes, but slightly differing perspectives and objectives. Shoot me, I don't like either.
| This user would like to thank TobiasM for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:37
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists
Some interesting stats to come out of the Italian election.
Unlike in the EU referendum in the UK, da yoof voted for the Eurosceptic Five Star Movement. Also, more women voted for the far-right Lega Nord than men. | The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:39
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Moderate voices are the 'victims'. Having a polarised view is the problem.
| | | | | But if you cherish diversity, you have to accept that there are polarised opinions within that breadth of diversity.
| The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:43
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,131
Groaned at 2,736 Times in 1,931 Posts
Thanked 40,402 Times in 19,048 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | more women voted for the far-right Lega Nord than men | | | | | According to some ex-commies I was speaking to Monday, the Lega is no longer viewed as far-right, and hasn't been since Bossi left.
Tom
| The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:43
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Weeeell as Authoritarian dictatorships yes, but slightly differing perspectives and objectives. Shoot me, I don't like either. | | | | | Same objectives on many issues actually, but sing different songs and wave different flags and therefore mortal enemies.
| This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 15:46
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | According to some ex-commies I was speaking to Monday, the Lega is no longer viewed as far-right, and hasn't been since Bossi left. 
Tom | | | | | What were your understandings of the move towards the far right? Impotence? Anger? Poverty? Immigrants? Facebook? (not joking)
| 
07.03.2018, 15:56
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,131
Groaned at 2,736 Times in 1,931 Posts
Thanked 40,402 Times in 19,048 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | What were your understandings of the move towards the far right? Impotence? Anger? Poverty? Immigrants? Facebook? (not joking) | | | | | They haven't really, it's more that the right has moved left, and the left more left.
But yes, refugees are a very big part of the problem, and socialism isn't working.
Also, the EURO is seen as a big part of their problems.
Tom
| The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 16:32
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | They haven't really, it's more that the right has moved left, and the left more left.
But yes, refugees are a very big part of the problem, and socialism isn't working.
Also, the EURO is seen as a big part of their problems.
Tom | | | | | Thanks for your answer. Did you mean to say Capitalism isn't working?
| 
07.03.2018, 16:44
| Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Geneva
Posts: 455
Groaned at 64 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,281 Times in 714 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | I have yet to have anyone properly explain to me what this 'Liberal elite' is, who it is and how I'm part of it. Using 'elite' anything is a huge, rational thinking cop out. | | | | | There's a Wikipedia entry for "liberal elite" but it doesn't seem to say who coined it or who has been using it most.
BBC: 43 hits
The Mirror: 53 hits
The Independent: 189 hits
Telegraph: 245 hits
The Times: 491 hits
Daily Mail: 602 hits
The Express: 928 hits
The Guardian: 2,130 hits (funnily enough)
| This user would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 16:51
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Thanks for your answer. Did you mean to say Capitalism isn't working? | | | | | "Not working" | The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 16:53
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Some interesting stats to come out of the Italian election.
Unlike in the EU referendum in the UK, da yoof voted for the Eurosceptic Five Star Movement. Also, more women voted for the far-right Lega Nord than men. | | | | | Maybe because those in the under 55 demographic were Italian women using social media more than men? Social media was disproportionately influenced by radical populist foreign media. Maybe fears have been stoked, rather than concerns over GDP and the EU? It was a one theme election.
| 
07.03.2018, 17:08
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 132 Times in 116 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Some interesting stats to come out of the Italian election.
Unlike in the EU referendum in the UK, da yoof voted for the Eurosceptic Five Star Movement. Also, more women voted for the far-right Lega Nord than men.  | | | | | My eternal problem with these 'stats'...
100 people vote in an election.
The election is a secret ballot.
You can see from the attendance sheets that 50% of the voters were women and 50% were men.
The winner of the election received 50% of the total number of votes.
What percentage of women and men voted for the winner?
How can you prove this?
| This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 17:08
| Banned | | Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: -
Posts: 247
Groaned at 141 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | Btw, what's the problem with diversity? | | | | | "I think diversity is wonderful, just as long as they don't live near me and don't go to the same school as my children"
-Progressive Leftist
| This user would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 17:20
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Rome->London->Basel
Posts: 91
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 41 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists
People in Italy had enough of years of "bad governments" both from left and right wings and gave a good amount of their votes to nationalist and populist parties: M5S and Lega.
They were the only two parties that focused their campaign on very basic topics: EURO, Immigration and "get rid of the old establishment". Also a lot of financial improvement promises have been made, some of them completely unrealistic, but people usually don't get it
M5S has won basically everywhere in the South, where economic conditions are worst and people are usually more keen to "switch" party from time to time in favour of the promises that are made. (side note: this has been going on for 150 years, is not something due to Italy joining EU or other recent factors. It's just the way it is. - link in Italian)
Lega has won mainly in the North, leveraging slogans against (unregulated) immigration.
While I understand these arguments are valid, IMHO, there is a broader issue going on at global scale, with the arise of nationalist and populists parties that are coming up to react to the deteriorating conditions of some of the economies in the Western World: Brexit in UK, Trump in US, Independents and Podemos in Spain, and ultimately Lega and M5s in Italy.
It's not something affecting just Italy.
The key point is not about "staying/leaving EU" or "allow/get rid of immigrants", but is how to mantain a sustainable economy in the context of a globalized world, with (almost) free movements of people and - especially in Italy - an establishment who hasn't understood all of the above.
my 2 cents.
| The following 7 users would like to thank MPiolo for this useful post: | | 
07.03.2018, 17:21
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 132 Times in 116 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: Election Results: Italians Say FU to the EU, Globalists | Quote: | |  | | | "I think diversity is wonderful, just as long as they don't live near me and don't go to the same school as my children"
-Progressive Leftist | | | | | Sounds more like your uncle to be fair  OMG!!!! Does this mean your uncle's a progressive leftist? | The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:16. | |