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  #301  
Old 21.03.2018, 08:58
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

@ ProsperityJoy

Where are your links to official documents supporting your claims "The UK’s laboratory, Porton Down, resisted the claim that the nerve agent was made in Russia.
The UK government put them under tremendous pressure to say the nerve agent “was” made in Russia.
".

The statement by Russian Minister Lavrov "that Russia would be ready to provide Britain with a response within 10 days if London submitted an official request, in line with the Chemical Weapons Convention" is somewhat tongue in cheek.

Novichok is not covered by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons!
Why not?
Because the OPCW is a self declaration organisation, they only control chemical weapons declared to them by their member countries. Russia has never declared Novichok to the OPCW.
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  #302  
Old 21.03.2018, 12:56
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Here It Goes Again:

Former British ambassador Craig Murray sneered at the idea
These days, people tend to skip any text longer than two paragraphs, unless it's a detective thriller or porn. To conquer the mainflood media, one have to write a thriller, a porn, or keep it short.
Look at Novichok story. They started with the Strike Back thriller, let's see what's next.
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  #303  
Old 21.03.2018, 14:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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The people who reference Iraq and WMDs in support of such theories ignore the elephant in the room which is that the truth about Iraq emerged relatively quickly.
Nobody in the UK Govt. is nutty enough to order murders when they know the truth will emerge sooner or later, probably sooner.
Sure.

Furthermore, the emergence of the truth undid the Iraq war, and both Bush and Blair had to step down from their positions.

Or did they?
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  #304  
Old 21.03.2018, 14:42
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Has anybody made the "Russian to conclusions" joke yet?

I can't be bothered to read back through the whole thread to see if I'm late to the game.
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  #305  
Old 21.03.2018, 14:46
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Sure.

Furthermore, the emergence of the truth undid the Iraq war, and both Bush and Blair had to step down from their positions.

Or did they?
really? bush stepped down?? there was me thinking he completed his max 2 terms in office.
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  #306  
Old 21.03.2018, 18:24
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Oh FFS. Boris has been 'doing diplimacy' again, but Labour MP, Ian Austin started it.

Quote:
Austin also claims that Putin is going to use the World Cup "like Hitler used the World Cup in 1936".
Johnson responds: "Yes - I think the comparison with 1936 is certainly right."
He says that "on balance, it would be incredibly unfair to punish the (England) team".
https://news.sky.com/story/live-bori...rexit-11298986

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...
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  #307  
Old 21.03.2018, 19:13
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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These days, people tend to skip any text longer than two paragraphs, unless it's a detective thriller or porn. To conquer the mainflood media, one have to write a thriller, a porn, or keep it short.
Look at Novichok story. They started with the Strike Back thriller, let's see what's next.
LOL...thanks for the tip! You're definitely on to something. Funnily enough, my post is roughly a 3-4 minute read; not unheard of for informative reading. Take Care...!
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  #308  
Old 21.03.2018, 19:36
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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LOL...thanks for the tip! You're definitely on to something. Funnily enough, my post is roughly a 3-4 minute read; not unheard of for informative reading. Take Care...!
If it were informative it might be worth the read, but all it seems to be doing is trying to rubbish what anyone with access to the information has said about the whole affair. Keeping an open mind is one thing, and that's all you'd need to say, but insisting that every official channel of information is corrupt and lying is just classic conspiracy theory rubbish - when you can't question the facts, question the source.

I blame the Illuminati myself.
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  #309  
Old 21.03.2018, 20:43
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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OK...I’m done now (I know it was a bit long...thanks for reading)...Peace Out…!
And when you've stopped plagurising excerts from this page word for word... https://russia-insider.com/en/novich...amazon/ri22800 ... what the hell does Tommy Robinson have to do with the poisoning of two Russians?

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Look at Novichok story. They started with the Strike Back thriller, let's see what's next.
I had to google Strike Back because I've never heard of it, but seeing as you think nobody here can read more than a couple of paragraphs (though you clearly didnlt read the 300+page government report I linked for you, quelle surprise) perhaps you can stretch to reading this 12 page paper published in 2007. I'll even be really helpful and give you a clue.... page 6

http://archiv.uni-nke.hu/downloads/a...pdf/15vasa.pdf

And here you will find the details of a that details the development of Novichok that was published in 2006. http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Novichok

Plenty of good long reading for you there. Perhaps you can report back when you've finished, or you might even like to right an essay detailing your findings and cross referencing with published information to the contrary. References in the margin please. Tatty bye!
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  #310  
Old 22.03.2018, 08:07
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Oh FFS. Boris has been 'doing diplimacy' again, but Labour MP, Ian Austin started it.

https://news.sky.com/story/live-bori...rexit-11298986

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...
The only thing that makes Johnson look an arse in all this is that it's been clear all along that Putin will be using the World Cup like Hitler used the Olympics in 1936. It doesn't require poisoning of a former spy in Salisbury to enlighten us to this, just look at what happened in Sochi.
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  #311  
Old 22.03.2018, 09:33
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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perhaps you can stretch to reading this 12 page paper published in 2007. I'll even be really helpful and give you a clue.... page 6

http://archiv.uni-nke.hu/downloads/a...pdf/15vasa.pdf

And here you will find the details of a that details the development of Novichok that was published in 2006. http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Novichok
Nice to see that there are still people on another side of the barricades who care to dig for truth. Respect.

I was impressed. Initially. But, remembering some of my academic youth, started digging for footnote references in this PDF- et voilà! - main source about Novichok turned out to be Wikipedia that, in turn, references to the only source, Vil Mirzayanov's book.

Here's what real scientists said about Novichok, Mirzayanov and his book at OPCW session in 2013:

Non-scheduled toxic chemicals that may pose a risk to the Convention
82. In 2008, a book authored by Vil Mirzayanov, a former Soviet scientist, reported that
Soviet scientists had investigated a new class of nerve agents commonly referred to as
“Novichoks” (newcomers), which were suitable for use as binary weapons. The
structures shown in the book incorporated an acetamidine or guanidine group into a
sarin-like structure in place of the alkoxy group. While some of these structures fall
within the generic definition of Schedule 2B(4) chemicals, it was reported that some
were non-scheduled analogues, wherein the alkyl group attached directly to
phosphorus was replaced by an alkoxy group. The compounds were reported to have
high toxicity and no recorded industrial use. There is very little information available
on those compounds in open-source literature, and the existence and properties have
not been verified in peer reviewed literature. The SAB is therefore not in a position to
make further comments.


Sourced from OPCW:
https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...rc3dg01_e_.pdf

To me, this looks a bit more scientific than the article from Budapest Uni archive you referred to. And mea culpa - looks like the thriller started a bit earlier than Strike Back movie ))

Once again: See how much the style of discussion has changed, as soon as we stopped posting the links to mainflood!

Last edited by arz; 22.03.2018 at 09:54.
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  #312  
Old 22.03.2018, 10:24
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Maybe the style has changed but nothing to change the conclusion that the Russians are the culprits
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  #313  
Old 22.03.2018, 11:01
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

I keep wondering about the physical delivery of the poison, I mean there were no reports of anyone wandering around Salisbury in a hazmat suit!

That agent is very, very nasty stuff and you only need a tiny amount to make you sick so who delivered it and how and are they now lying sick somewhere?
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  #314  
Old 22.03.2018, 11:26
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I keep wondering about the physical delivery of the poison, I mean there were no reports of anyone wandering around Salisbury in a hazmat suit!

That agent is very, very nasty stuff and you only need a tiny amount to make you sick so who delivered it and how and are they now lying sick somewhere?
I've been wondering that too. If they both fell ill at the same time and are in equally serious condition, that might suggest that they received a similar dose at the same time. Could the poison have been inside something and pre-prepared, so that the handler wasn't contaminated, only someone that opened it? There was word that their car had been examined. Some kind of device attached to the car that would release the poison into it when the car was running? But if it was that obvious, perhaps that would have been made public by now.
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  #315  
Old 22.03.2018, 11:32
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I've been wondering that too. If they both fell ill at the same time and are in equally serious condition, that might suggest that they received a similar dose at the same time. Could the poison have been inside something and pre-prepared, so that the handler wasn't contaminated, only someone that opened it? There was word that their car had been examined. Some kind of device attached to the car that would release the poison into it when the car was running? But if it was that obvious, perhaps that would have been made public by now.
Novichock agents are usually binary - i.e. there are two (inactive, stable and relatively harmless) ingredients which need to be combined to create the toxin. The chemical reaction takes several minutes to then occur (longer in cold weather) to create the toxin.

You could quite safely pour each one into the cabin filter. Now whether you have enough time or not to safely close the filter and reassemble everything is another story.

I would assume that embedding both components in a dissolving matrix (dry ice?) that leaves very little residue would be feasible...
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  #316  
Old 22.03.2018, 11:37
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I keep wondering about the physical delivery of the poison, I mean there were no reports of anyone wandering around Salisbury in a hazmat suit!

That agent is very, very nasty stuff and you only need a tiny amount to make you sick so who delivered it and how and are they now lying sick somewhere?
Can you find anything to contradict this? It is an odd but related statement:
source

Quote:
4. In a recent letter to The Times, Stephen Davies, Consultant in Emergency Medicine at Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust, wrote the following:

"Sir, Further to your report ("Poison exposure leaves almost 40 needing treatment", Mar 14) may I clarify that no patients have experienced nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning."

His claim that "no patients have experienced nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury" is remarkably odd, as it appears to flatly contradict the official narrative. Was this a slip of the pen, or was it his intention to communicate precisely this - that no patients have been poisoned by a nerve agent in Salisbury?
That claim implies that the police officer Detective Sergeant Bailey is, apart from the 2 main victims, the only person to have been affected by the poison. How was he affected ? He apparently went to their house. Did he also touch the car that has been a subject of a later theory about the administering of the poison?
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  #317  
Old 22.03.2018, 11:46
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Could the poison have been inside something and pre-prepared, so that the handler wasn't contaminated
All serious toxic agents since early 1970s are binary - consisting of two relatively harmless components, and so are easy to store and transport in separate containers.

All serious binary toxics since 90s, according to technical specifications, must break up into inorganic molecules within 10 to 30 seconds after mutual contact, which is more than enough to kill everyone in close proximity, and makes the toxic fully undetectable.

Source: Russian OPCW representative, TV interview was in Russian.

For binary toxics, there are many methods to trigger the contact remotely, at the same time fully destroying the containers. Let's wait what OPCW investigation says. I hope they'll be done in few months as promised.

Last edited by arz; 22.03.2018 at 12:08.
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  #318  
Old 22.03.2018, 12:52
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Nice to see that there are still people on another side of the barricades who care to dig for truth. Respect.
I neither require nor desire respect from you.

I merely scanned over #300. When a piece of prose is so difficult to read because it feels like 4 people talking over each other, then chances are that it is. Next step is to scan for anything particularly stylised, in this case 'WMD#2' leapt off the page, so I did a quick cut and paste google search for ...

'Will the media continue to help Theresa maintain her crumbling narrative? Are we watching WMD#2 with added depths of cynicism?'

...which brought up exact matches across a number of pro-Russian websites and blogs. So it's a classic piece of plagiarism that's found it's way across numerous 'sources'. Simple.

As for your continued references to Strike Back, my google search brought up a book and a tv series, not a film, not that it's of any relevance to this discussion.

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I would assume that embedding both components in a dissolving matrix (dry ice?) that leaves very little residue would be feasible...
Ways and means, and one of the simplest ever used was the simple aniseed ball http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peop...a4376153.shtml
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  #319  
Old 22.03.2018, 13:54
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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All serious toxic agents since early 1970s are binary - consisting of two relatively harmless components, and so are easy to store and transport in separate containers.

All serious binary toxics since 90s, according to technical specifications, must break up into inorganic molecules within 10 to 30 seconds after mutual contact, which is more than enough to kill everyone in close proximity, and makes the toxic fully undetectable.

Source: Russian OPCW representative, TV interview was in Russian.

For binary toxics, there are many methods to trigger the contact remotely, at the same time fully destroying the containers. Let's wait what OPCW investigation says. I hope they'll be done in few months as promised.

"All serious binary toxics since 90s, according to technical specifications, must break up into inorganic molecules within 10 to 30 seconds after mutual contact"
Novichok was developed before the 90s so your comment is not relevant.

Anyway Novichok is chemically closely related to VX.
VX is persistent in the environment. Under average weather conditions, VX can last for days on objects that it has come in contact with.
Sarin takes minutes to hours to dissipate depending on weather conditions; indoors tends to last a long time.

"For binary toxics, there are many methods to trigger the contact remotely, at the same time fully destroying the containers." This method simply does not work, the chemicals have to be properly mixed in their correct concentrations.

Modern methods can identify chemical weapon traces at concentrations as low as of about 0.1 micrograms per milliliter so there is no such thing as "undetectable".
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Old 22.03.2018, 13:56
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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...which brought up exact matches across a number of pro-Russian websites and blogs. So it's a classic piece of plagiarism that's found it's way across numerous 'sources'. Simple.
So you are essentially saying that BBC, RT and OPCW are at the same level of credibility, and only what Theresa May says can be true?
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