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  #341  
Old 23.03.2018, 09:26
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Well what else can I do waiting for at least some answers to my very straight questions.
All I got so far were speculations, tabloid links and the famous "highly likely" show.
1. Why is the case classified
2. What's the origin of "Novichok" term, apart from Mirsayanov's paperback?
3. Why is Russian involvement in this case "more likely" than British?
4. Are BBC, CNN and OPCW at the same level of credibility and, if yes, is Mrs. May's level higher?

My questions about MH17 and Litvinenko remain unanswered, too. Remember, it was not me who brought these off-topics in.
I hope now at least there are no doubts about Iraq "chemical weapons" and Russian Hackers affecting US elections.
Let's count who lied more in the past 10 years scandals, then we at least can extrapolate whose lies are more "highly likely" now.
You have had answers but you choose to ignore them. Of course, this is an internet forum so you can indeed choose to ignore them but that does not make the answers any less valid.

Here is another one for you to ignore
"U.S. investigators have reportedly discovered that "Guccifer 2.0," the hacker who claimed credit for a breach of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) during the 2016 election, revealed himself as a Russian intelligence operative.

The Daily Beast reports that U.S. investigators identified the hacker as a Moscow-based Russian intelligence operative after the hacker failed to activate a virtual private networking (VPN) service meant to obscure the operative's location before logging on."
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  #342  
Old 23.03.2018, 09:39
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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You have had answers but you choose to ignore them. Of course, this is an internet forum so you can indeed choose to ignore them but that does not make the answers any less valid.
The problem being, of course, that any answers given have suddenly been addressing the wrong question, and this is why these sort of posters will repeat (and reword) their questions so many times.

Plus of course the lack of clarity in what they're actually claiming. All I know from Arz's posts is that any official claim or account I've read is a lie, but that his own internet sources should be trusted without hesitation. It's fairly typical behaviour, attack everything and everyone without specifying exactly what it is that they are claiming to have happened.

But why? Is it just classic trolling? Do they really think that anyone who's not already in the conspiracy theory lobby will take them seriously? Or is there something more sinister going on? Is Arz himself perhaps a Russian agent running an interference action?
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  #343  
Old 23.03.2018, 10:08
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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All I know from Arz's posts is that any official claim or account I've read is a lie
What claim? Give an example of an official claim that I rejected or ignored
All I rejected so far were references to tabloids.


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But why? Is it just classic trolling? Do they really think that anyone who's not already in the conspiracy theory lobby will take them seriously? Or is there something more sinister going on? Is Arz himself perhaps a Russian agent running an interference action?
And who is trolling here?

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Here is another one for you to ignore
Sure to ignore if that's from tabloids.
If you don't like the rule to avoid citations from tabloids, don't bother to comment my posts - your comments will be ignored.

Last edited by arz; 23.03.2018 at 10:35.
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  #344  
Old 23.03.2018, 13:49
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Boris Johnson compares Russian World Cup to Hitler's 1936 Olympics
Russian ambassador brands Boris Johnson's Putin-Hitler comparison 'insulting'

This can surely only be grist to the mill of any doubters: if Johnson is exaggerating by comparing Putin to Hitler and if the comparison is unfair, what else is he/the UK exaggerating about and what other unfair accusations are being made?
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  #345  
Old 23.03.2018, 14:10
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage that asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"; that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.
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  #346  
Old 23.03.2018, 14:15
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage that asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"; that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.
Ignored, not an official document
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  #347  
Old 23.03.2018, 14:21
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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The problem being, of course, that any answers given have suddenly been addressing the wrong question, and this is why these sort of posters will repeat (and reword) their questions so many times.

Plus of course the lack of clarity in what they're actually claiming. All I know from Arz's posts is that any official claim or account I've read is a lie, but that his own internet sources should be trusted without hesitation. It's fairly typical behaviour, attack everything and everyone without specifying exactly what it is that they are claiming to have happened.

But why? Is it just classic trolling? Do they really think that anyone who's not already in the conspiracy theory lobby will take them seriously? Or is there something more sinister going on? Is Arz himself perhaps a Russian agent running an interference action?

I doubt EF is big enough to warrant a Russian agent, maybe to use as a practice field for a raw beginner who has poor language and debating skills? Oh wait a minute....
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  #348  
Old 24.03.2018, 01:39
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Is Arz himself perhaps a Russian agent running an interference action?
You're the one with access to the IPs

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If you don't like the rule to avoid citations from tabloids, don't bother to comment my posts - your comments will be ignored.
All bow to Dictator arz. It's like an anal version of Spud-U-Like

In light of today's developments at the EU, and how the views and support of the other EU nations 'miraculously' changed once they had access to the secret information on the Salisbury poisoning, I do wonder what Putin's thinking now? 10 further EU nations are now planning to expel Russian diplomats.

Yesterday, EU backing for Britian's measure regarding Russian expulsions, was 50/50 at best. What Theresa May did today, no other British PM has ever done. In light of the new information shared with the other EU leaders, she left Brussels tonight with the 100% backing of the EU member states.

My question now is, can Theresa May really be that persuasive, or the evidence so damning? As I know that the former is not the case...
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  #349  
Old 24.03.2018, 10:37
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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. . . In light of the new information shared with the other EU leaders, she left Brussels tonight with the 100% backing of the EU member states. . .
The UK media are demonstrating a remarkable lack of curiosity about this new "evidence". I wonder when it will be revealed or has it and I have simply missed it ?
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  #350  
Old 24.03.2018, 10:46
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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The UK media are demonstrating a remarkable lack of curiosity about this new "evidence". I wonder when it will be revealed or has it and I have simply missed it ?
Information pertinent to a possible future criminal investigation and prosecution will not be made public until the conclusion of criminal proceedings, if at all.

If the information is deemed to be a matter of national security and becomes subject to The Official Secrets Act, we can pretty much forget knowing the full details for a good 20+yrs. My great uncle was active in, and witness to the aftermath of an event 77 years ago, which is still covered by The Offical Secrets Act.
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  #351  
Old 24.03.2018, 10:54
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Information pertinent to a possible future criminal investigation and prosecution will not be made public until the conclusion of criminal proceedings, if at all. . . .
The evidence shows that the normal rules, presumption of innocence, fair trial without prejudice etc. etc. have already been dispensed with in this case.
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  #352  
Old 24.03.2018, 12:09
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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The UK media are demonstrating a remarkable lack of curiosity about this new "evidence". I wonder when it will be revealed or has it and I have simply missed it ?
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The evidence shows that the normal rules, presumption of innocence, fair trial without prejudice etc. etc. have already been dispensed with in this case.
You are posting about the content of evidence when you have admitted that you have not seen the evidence.

You claim "fair trial without prejudice etc. etc. have already been dispensed with in this case." when there has not yet been a trial
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  #353  
Old 24.03.2018, 12:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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You claim "fair trial without prejudice etc. etc. have already been dispensed with in this case." when there has not yet been a trial
Or even the naming of a suspect and/or arrest.
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  #354  
Old 24.03.2018, 14:59
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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You are posting about the content of evidence when you have admitted that you have not seen the evidence.

You claim "fair trial without prejudice etc. etc. have already been dispensed with in this case." when there has not yet been a trial
The "evidence" I was referring to was the new information (what ever it is) mentioned by BlueAngel in #348 which was apparently convincing enough to achieve "100% backing of the EU member states". No of course I haven't seen it. And since it hasn't appeared in the media, I don't know what it is. More important to me is that the media appear not to be interested following this up. It'll leak out anyway at some stage if it has been so widely distributed, presumably.

It was Blueangel in #350 who was referring to the niceties of handling sensitive information in attempting to explain why such information was not in the public domain. My argument was and still is that such niceties have already been disregarded and cannot be used to explain the failure to expose that information to public scrutiny. Of course you can prejudice a future trial, but that is not the main point here.
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  #355  
Old 24.03.2018, 15:01
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Or even the naming of a suspect and/or arrest.
Hasn't the Russian state has been named as a suspect ?
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  #356  
Old 24.03.2018, 15:16
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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What claim? Give an example of an official claim that I rejected or ignored
All I rejected so far were references to tabloids.
Your post 239 here
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  #357  
Old 24.03.2018, 18:33
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

How weird.

Skripal asked Putin if he could return home

"Sergei Skripal wrote to President Putin asking to be allowed to return home, a friend of the former spy told the BBC. Vladimir Timoshkov said Mr Skripal denied he was "a traitor" and asked for "complete forgiveness". The Kremlin denies receiving such a letter."

Boris Berezovsky wrote two letters asking for forgiveness

"Boris Berezovsky wrote two personal letters to Vladimir Putin in which he asked for forgiveness and the right to come home, the Russian president confirmed for the first time."
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  #358  
Old 24.03.2018, 18:47
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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How weird.

Skripal asked Putin if he could return home

"Sergei Skripal wrote to President Putin asking to be allowed to return home, a friend of the former spy told the BBC. Vladimir Timoshkov said Mr Skripal denied he was "a traitor" and asked for "complete forgiveness". The Kremlin denies receiving such a letter."

Boris Berezovsky wrote two letters asking for forgiveness

"Boris Berezovsky wrote two personal letters to Vladimir Putin in which he asked for forgiveness and the right to come home, the Russian president confirmed for the first time."
Why weird?

People will do anything to avoid being murdered or suffering a fatal accident
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  #359  
Old 25.03.2018, 00:04
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It is claimed Russia is pouring huge amounts of propaganda into ex-Soviet States claiming UK and the West are treating Russia very unfairly!
Seems to be an effort to stir up the Russian minorities in those States; watch out for little green men
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  #360  
Old 26.03.2018, 15:39
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Trump expelling 60 Russian diplomats in wake of UK nerve agent attack

Source

Good for Trump!
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