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  #401  
Old 28.03.2018, 13:49
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Exactly. Data point.
Where is it in Skripal's case? In Litvinenko, MH17, Russian hackers affecting US election.
I saw Putin and Trump many times.
I don't believe in other stuff. Some other people do.
It's religious.
"I saw Putin and Trump many times. " In real life or just actors on TV
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  #402  
Old 28.03.2018, 13:49
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I saw Putin and Trump many times.
I don't believe in other stuff. Some other people do.
Huh?

You're not making any sense now.
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  #403  
Old 28.03.2018, 13:57
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

hey Arz, what do you think freddie mercury and george michael where doing last night?
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  #404  
Old 28.03.2018, 13:58
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Huh?

You're not making any sense now.
Look, I've explained and have proven in long, long, boring posts that none of the fact used here as an argument that Russians are bad, are't facts. But you still believe it these "facts"
What else can I call it? Give me a term.
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  #405  
Old 28.03.2018, 14:01
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Look, I've explained and have proven in long, long, boring posts that none of the fact used here as an argument that Russians are bad, are't facts. But you still believe it these "facts"
What else can I call it? Give me a term.
No proofs and nothing proven!
You have simply provided endless speculation about a situation where none of us have access to the actual facts.
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  #406  
Old 28.03.2018, 14:08
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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It's just your take. I take it differently. As do lots of countries, including EU members.
Simply wrong!
All EU members agreed the statement that "#EUCO agrees with UK government that highly likely Russia is responsible for #SalisburyAttack and that there is no other plausible explanation".
And all EU countries agreed to the withdrawal of the EU ambassador to Russia.
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  #407  
Old 28.03.2018, 14:35
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Look, I've explained and have proven in long, long, boring posts that none of the fact used here as an argument that Russians are bad, are't facts. But you still believe it these "facts"
What else can I call it? Give me a term.
First off, I've absolutely nothing against Russians. Nothing whatsoever. Putin, however, is a different matter. If all the governments currently backing the UK in this believed Russians to be bad, why would they be at all bothered about an attepmted murder of Russian citizens?

You refuse to accept any media reports whatsoever. When offered official government documents, you say they're all lies. There is nothing else that can be offered, and even if there were, you wouldn't believe it, so why bother.
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  #408  
Old 28.03.2018, 14:56
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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It's just your take. I take it differently. As do lots of countries, including EU members.
No some countries don't want to get involved, they have too much at stake financially with Russia to want to upset the Bear or they don't care enough as they don't feel its their business. Fence sitters.
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  #409  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:14
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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No countries give a shit
FTFY

just look at the facts, Putin's popularity it through the roof, May's popularity is up, every leader who plays hard ball is benefiting from added public support, its a win win for all involved, well, except for the daughter and policeman, you really think anyone on either side give a shit that a spy who sold out all his comrades for 100k got bumped off?
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  #410  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:23
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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“The NATO alliance tried to create a partnership – a Russia-NATO partnership council as a mechanism to keep us working together,” Mattis told reporters at the Pentagon. “That, regrettably, is by Russia’s choice a thing of the past … because Russia has chosen to be a strategic competitor even to the point of reckless activity.”

Mattis said the Salisbury incident involved the "pretty obvious" use of a "weapon of mass destruction," which the British government has identified as the military-grade nerve agent Novichok, developed by Russia during the Cold War.

It was part of a pattern seen in Russia's actions, Mattis said, starting in Ukraine in 2014, where he said Moscow sent armed men without insignias into Crimea and has provided fighters and weapons under cover to Ukrainian separatists.

Mattis said Russia's subterfuge continued through covert efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

"They take the insignia off soldiers' uniforms and they go into Crimea. They say they have nothing to do with what's going on with the separatists in eastern Ukraine," Mattis added.

"I'm not sure how they can say that with a straight face," he said, but "they're doing things that they believe are deniable."
Russia's actions over the last 10 years or so has cost them their credibility, there are a whole string of incidents, cyber attacks in 2007 and kidnapping a policeman in Estonia, taking Crimea and the war on the Russia/Ukraine border, the shooting down of MH17, cyber attacks on German, US and other governments, etc., etc. But with a President who is a former KGB spy, I'm not sure you would expect something else...

...but now a Russian turncoat spy suddenly dies from a nerve agent made in the USSR, and Russia is like "What? We have nothing to do with it!" ....um, yea, ok, sure... ...so who was it then? A jealous lover who worked in a nerve-agent factory? Or if you don't want to bother with a story, just make up a conspiracy theory or "false flag" and blame the US, that one always goes over well in Russia
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  #411  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:29
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Russia's actions over the last 10 years or so has cost them their credibility, there are a whole string of incidents
Only in the eyes of those that pay attention. Russia managed to control its image very well and I was always surprised at how oblivious some people are. Either that, or they just play ignorant.
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  #412  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:32
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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First off, I've absolutely nothing against Russians. Nothing whatsoever. Putin, however, is a different matter. If all the governments currently backing the UK in this believed Russians to be bad, why would they be at all bothered about an attepmted murder of Russian citizens?

You refuse to accept any media reports whatsoever. When offered official government documents, you say they're all lies. There is nothing else that can be offered, and even if there were, you wouldn't believe it, so why bother.
Lots of inaccuracies again.
Not all governments are backing UK.
Putin isn't a different matter - he's just like other 3/4 of Russian population backing him.
I refuse to accept media reports coz media is known to lie.
The UK official document you provided, lies - I've just proven it.
Don't be too generic. If you think my proof is insufficient, prove it.
I've listed facts about Skripal's case:

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The "compliant" behavior was:
- Accuse Russia after few hours after the event
- Hide all evidence, victims and witnesses
- Classify the case
- Demand confession in 24 hours
- Ignore requests for proof and deny cooperation
- Involve OPCW after 8 days only
Do you want to object these facts?
Do you want to argue that UK's course of action was compliant with OPCW regulations as they claim?

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No some countries don't want to get involved, they have too much at stake financially with Russia to want to upset the Bear or they don't care enough as they don't feel its their business. Fence sitters.
As well as too many countries have too much at stake with UK/US/NATO.
Ergo: neither position can be used in to prove UK's nor RU's involvement in Salisbury case.
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  #413  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:38
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Last night's Channel 4 News interview with the President of Estonia Kersti Kaljulaid, is worth watching for Jon Snow visibly swooning if nothing else. My OH was also quite impressed by her. Pftt!

https://www.channel4.com/news/presid...putin-language
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  #414  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:46
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Lots of inaccuracies again.
Not all governments are backing UK. - I never said they were
Putin isn't a different matter - he's just like other 3/4 of Russian population backing him. - bullshit
I refuse to accept media reports coz media is known to lie. - unless it's russian media apparently
The UK official document you provided, lies - I've just proven it. - you've proved nothing, zero, nada...
Don't be too generic. If you think my proof is insufficient, prove it. - You have not provided any proof whatsoever other than your own transcript of a tv interview in Russian that you didn't even provide a link for.
I've listed facts about Skripal's case: - And omitted actually reading the inquest report or any of the Netherlands' government's findings on flight MH17
Still waiting for this 'proof'
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  #415  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:48
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

why are you even bothering replying to this fool?
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  #416  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:50
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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why are you even bothering replying to this fool?
I'm waiting for the washer to finish it's cycle, then load it into the dryer and I'm off out. You?
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  #417  
Old 28.03.2018, 15:56
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Only in the eyes of those that pay attention. Russia managed to control its image very well and I was always surprised at how oblivious some people are. Either that, or they just play ignorant.
Hmmm, I don't know about that. They have made themselves look pretty bad, but maybe yea, most people don't really bother to pay attention to what Russia is doing, or maybe don't really care as long as it's not happening to them or their country.

Russia does work double time with their disinformation campaigns tho, to sew doubt, just like a criminal lawyer would do in a court of law to get their client off. Russia's normal modus operandi when they commit a crime (eg. shoot down a passenger plane by mistake, start a war, kidnap someone, etc.) is to first deny, then say "give us proof" (regardless if it's obvious or not), then deny all proof, then point the finger at the US and other countries and say "look, they are also doing bad things", then make up some alternative conspiracy theories (regardless how ridiculous). But in the end, the truth comes out and people see thru the lies. And then Russia does look bad and credibility is lost.

If they did it once or twice, they might have got a pass, but they have done it repeatedly, and are becoming more aggressive, so the West needs to have a spine and stand up, else it will continue, as Russia will want to see how far they can push it until someone pushes back.
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  #418  
Old 28.03.2018, 16:01
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Putin isn't a different matter - he's just like other 3/4 of Russian population backing him. - bullshit
So the election's result is bullshit? Can you prove it?
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unless it's russian media apparently
No, there is a lot of bullshit media in Russia, too. And I don't remember presenting *any* media source as a proof.
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You have not provided any proof whatsoever other than your own transcript of a tv interview in Russian that you didn't even provide a link for.
What I listed here today about first 10 days after the poisoning event, is not a transcript of anything, it's the timeline known to everyone. Or you know a different one? Tell about it. Don't just deny, try to present at least some alternative version of how the situation developed in the first 10 days.

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And omitted actually reading the inquest report or any of the Netherlands' government's findings on flight MH17
I have read the MH17 "report" you linked here, and pointed out that it still talks about suspects and does not even name them. Give me a report that names the defendants
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  #419  
Old 28.03.2018, 16:18
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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No, there is a lot of bullshit media in Russia, too. And I don't remember presenting *any* media source as a proof.
https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ml#post2925830
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  #420  
Old 28.03.2018, 16:18
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Oh yeah, I almost forgot....TROLLS...Russia also likes to deploy their troll armies on the interwebz as part of their disinformation programs. But usually they are easy to spot
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