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  #441  
Old 29.03.2018, 13:11
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I'm increasingly sure that you don't read anything that is posted by other members in this thread.
Same here. Or you just don't admit you've read it. Or don't bother to comment and even answer direct questions.

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The information in the so called 'secret slides' was freely and openly available on the UK government's own website.
Has been? Since how long? Isn't it the result of the "classified" pre-OPCW investigation? Wondering what other "secrets" will be made public soon.
Aaand... what do you think about these 6 slides? A bomb, isn't it?


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So what? Copying turns the interview illegitimate? Fake?
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  #442  
Old 29.03.2018, 13:20
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Aaand... what do you think about these 6 slides? A bomb, isn't it?
They're fake. Really poorly executed, too. I have to admit to being profoundly disappointed. I was hoping for some quality trollery from the Russian government, and instead all we got was something knocked up by the intern.

Sad.
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  #443  
Old 29.03.2018, 17:33
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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why are you even bothering replying to this fool?
Only this sunday coming ,Fools day http://www.englishforum.ch/images/smilies/tongue.gif
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  #444  
Old 29.03.2018, 19:35
arz arz is offline
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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They're fake. Really poorly executed, too. I have to admit to being profoundly disappointed. I was hoping for some quality trollery from the Russian government, and instead all we got was something knocked up by the intern.

Sad.
What?! Blueangel said it's available on UK gov site. Has she beet trolling too?! ))
Yeah I see it now, it's a quite untalented fake indeed.
I can only calm myself with the fact that the Russian Foreign Ministry has come across this rod too, and it probably wasn't their intern who has made it up.
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  #445  
Old 29.03.2018, 20:48
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Some good news

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The health of the daughter of a former Russian double agent poisoned in a nerve agent attack in the UK is "improving rapidly," according to the hospital treating her.
Source

The policeman could also go home.
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  #446  
Old 03.04.2018, 17:32
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Viktor Yushchenko: Ukraine's ex-president on being poisoned

"Ukraine's former president Viktor Yushchenko says he hopes Europe will wake up to the threat posed by Russia in the wake of the poisonings in Salisbury.

Fourteen years ago Mr Yushchenko was taking on a presidential candidate favoured by Russia when he was poisoned with a dioxin, a toxic chemical."
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  #447  
Old 03.04.2018, 23:08
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

OK...so, just as I thought.

"UK scientists have been unable to prove Russia made the nerve agent A-234 (also known as "Novichok") which was used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury.
Scientists at the top secret army base Porton Down are unable to link the samples to Russia, after weeks of Moscow insisting it had nothing to do with the attack. Theresa May’s Government has repeatedly blamed the Kremlin and imposed sanctions on Russia, including the expulsion of 23 diplomats.
Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, told Sky News: "We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent.
Now, scientists say they are unsure of the links. Aitkenhead added: "It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is, we identified that it is from this particular family [Novichok] and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured."
Aitkenhead said there is no known antidote to Novichok, and that none was administered to either of the Skripals. He suggested the substance required "extremely sophisticated methods to create, something only in the capabilities of a state actor".
Russia's Ambassador in London, Alexander Yakovenko has repeatedly stated Russia has been kept out of the loop. Russia has asked for samples so it can do tests and has insisted it be allowed to investigate, after being blamed. However, the embassy is left to get information through the press in the UK, according to Yakovenko."

The entire article is here.
And by the way, here are a number of other sites from various countries stating the same thing!

Australia
France 24
UK
MSN.com
BuzzFeed
NY Times

"Porton Down scientists said “a state” was likely to be behind the attack, because of the complexity of the agent. However, Murray (Craig Murray, blogger and the UK's ex-ambasador to Uzbekistan) said there is evidence to the contrary.
He said: “The probably in the statement is very important, there are many people including David Colum, professor of organic chemistry at Cornell University, who says it’s just not true it has to be a state and any of his senior students could make it."



Just Google "scientist can't identify nerve agent in UK." What I have written previously "still stands." UK is full of sh*t, Theresa is a fool crying out for help and can't manage the country. For goodness sakes kids are dam near starving in the country. This is NOT the way to try to make Britain Great again and important on the world stage. TAKE CARE OF HOME THERESA....! She foolishly "jumped-the-gun on a serious matter all for glorification putting others in danger. If she had any integrity, she would apologize to Russia and stop trying to continue with this LIE that was nothing but a set-up which is backfiring. The only thing she and her other "partners in crime" say are "it's highly likely" "we still assume" "we believe" and all the other metaphors. What a laughingstock. Theresa May-Not looks like a fool...! She needs to resign! I'm not going to get involved with any spins on this. If your eyes aren't opened now, well, there's no hope for you. Ok, Take Care Everyone...!

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 03.04.2018 at 23:42.
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  #448  
Old 04.04.2018, 07:25
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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If your eyes aren't opened now, well, there's no hope for you.
Does that mean you're going to stop posting this cut and pasted garbage now?
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  #449  
Old 04.04.2018, 09:52
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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OK...so, just as I thought.

"UK scientists have been unable to prove Russia made the nerve agent A-234 (also known as "Novichok") which was used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury.
Scientists at the top secret army base Porton Down are unable to link the samples to Russia, after weeks of Moscow insisting it had nothing to do with the attack. Theresa May’s Government has repeatedly blamed the Kremlin and imposed sanctions on Russia, including the expulsion of 23 diplomats.
Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, told Sky News: "We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent.
Now, scientists say they are unsure of the links. Aitkenhead added: "It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is, we identified that it is from this particular family [Novichok] and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured."
Aitkenhead said there is no known antidote to Novichok, and that none was administered to either of the Skripals. He suggested the substance required "extremely sophisticated methods to create, something only in the capabilities of a state actor".
Russia's Ambassador in London, Alexander Yakovenko has repeatedly stated Russia has been kept out of the loop. Russia has asked for samples so it can do tests and has insisted it be allowed to investigate, after being blamed. However, the embassy is left to get information through the press in the UK, according to Yakovenko."

The entire article is here.
And by the way, here are a number of other sites from various countries stating the same thing!

Australia
France 24
UK
MSN.com
BuzzFeed
NY Times

"Porton Down scientists said “a state” was likely to be behind the attack, because of the complexity of the agent. However, Murray (Craig Murray, blogger and the UK's ex-ambasador to Uzbekistan) said there is evidence to the contrary.
He said: “The probably in the statement is very important, there are many people including David Colum, professor of organic chemistry at Cornell University, who says it’s just not true it has to be a state and any of his senior students could make it."



Just Google "scientist can't identify nerve agent in UK." What I have written previously "still stands." UK is full of sh*t, Theresa is a fool crying out for help and can't manage the country. For goodness sakes kids are dam near starving in the country. This is NOT the way to try to make Britain Great again and important on the world stage. TAKE CARE OF HOME THERESA....! She foolishly "jumped-the-gun on a serious matter all for glorification putting others in danger. If she had any integrity, she would apologize to Russia and stop trying to continue with this LIE that was nothing but a set-up which is backfiring. The only thing she and her other "partners in crime" say are "it's highly likely" "we still assume" "we believe" and all the other metaphors. What a laughingstock. Theresa May-Not looks like a fool...! She needs to resign! I'm not going to get involved with any spins on this. If your eyes aren't opened now, well, there's no hope for you. Ok, Take Care Everyone...!
Just because they can't prove it where it was manufactured, doesnt mean that it is not Novichok, a Russian designed chemical nerve agent. Still it could also have been Iran, according to Wiki, they managed to synthesis it. But who has the most to gain from doing this?

Quote:
Novichok (Russian: Новичо́к, "newcomer") is a series of nerve agents the Soviet Union and Russia developed between 1971 and 1993.[a][2][3] Russian scientists who developed the agents claim they are the deadliest nerve agents ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX,[4][5] and others up to ten times more potent than soman.[6]
They were designed as part of a Soviet program codenamed "FOLIANT".[1][7] Five Novichok variants are believed to have been weaponised for military use.[8] The most versatile was A-232 (Novichok-5).[9] Novichok agents have never been used on the battlefield. Theresa May, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and many other heads of state said that one such agent was used in the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in England in March 2018.[10] Russia officially denies producing or researching Novichok agents.[11]
In 2016, Iranian chemists synthesised five Novichok agents for analysis and produced detailed mass spectral data which was added to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons Central Analytical Database.[12][13] Previously there had been no detailed descriptions of their spectral properties in open scientific literature.[12][14]
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  #450  
Old 04.04.2018, 10:04
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Here's the BBC link: Russian spy: Source of nerve agent 'not identified'

"The precise source of the nerve agent used to poison a Russian ex-spy and his daughter has not been verified, says the head of Porton Down laboratory.

The defence research facility, which identified the substance in Salisbury as Novichok, said it was likely to have been deployed by a "state actor".

The UK said further intelligence led to its belief that Russia was responsible."


A security expert was interviewed on the news about this last night and said that the laboratory's inability to determine the source did not mean that the security services were not satisfied that Russia was behind the poisoning, just that they were unable to reveal how they knew this without undermining their operations.
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  #451  
Old 04.04.2018, 10:18
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

@ProsperityJoy

From your post;
Quote:
it is not our job to say where it was manufactured.
This is entirely different from your fallacious claim:
Quote:
UK scientists have been unable to prove Russia made the nerve agent
Stick to the published facts please!
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Old 04.04.2018, 12:32
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Hmm, it's been a while since I read in this thread and it seems to me everything is still at the same stage as at the beginning.
Except that several nations agree on the likeliness that the Russians are to blame. That makes it true? I wonder if we should start voting about guilt of criminals here in Switzerland too - courts are far too expensive to maintain anyway.

I agree, the Russians are a definitely a major suspect in this and also difficult to convict. But conviction is the key-word. No?
We blame Russia for their biased judges and the political influence in the jurisdiction but where is serious investigation and the court-case with a verdict by an independent judge in this?

I just want to know the truth. And I'm ready to wait for it by giving serious investigators time to find it. At the moment it doesn't look like that's even on it's way.

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why are you even bothering replying to this fool?
Because without arz there wouldn't even be a discussion here, maybe? Everybody would just dwell in agreeing that because it very much looks like a Russian thing to do it must have been the Russians this time as well.

What I really dislike is that people with different opinions are always called fools or idiots or what ever. Is that a British thing?

I kind of like arz's inputs. Whether he's playing devil's advocat, trolling or seriously arguing doesn't matter to me. He is the necessary antipole here.

I admit I stopped reading the posts of ProsperityJoy. Too much bold, too much red. But then I don't read "the Blick" either.
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  #453  
Old 04.04.2018, 13:09
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Just because they can't prove it where it was manufactured, doesnt mean that it is not Novichok, a Russian designed chemical nerve agent. Still it could also have been Iran, according to Wiki, they managed to synthesis it. But who has the most to gain from doing this?
"Russian designed" doesn't mean Russian made. If you look at motivation to escalate the cold war there is more likelihood that the CIA was behind it or even their poodles in the UK. Not that any of us knows Jack sh*t about who did it.
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  #454  
Old 04.04.2018, 14:00
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Hmm, it's been a while since I read in this thread and it seems to me everything is still at the same stage as at the beginning.
Except that several nations agree on the likeliness that the Russians are to blame. That makes it true? I wonder if we should start voting about guilt of criminals here in Switzerland too - courts are far too expensive to maintain anyway.

I agree, the Russians are a definitely a major suspect in this and also difficult to convict. But conviction is the key-word. No?
We blame Russia for their biased judges and the political influence in the jurisdiction but where is serious investigation and the court-case with a verdict by an independent judge in this?

I just want to know the truth. And I'm ready to wait for it by giving serious investigators time to find it. At the moment it doesn't look like that's even on it's way.


Because without arz there wouldn't even be a discussion here, maybe? Everybody would just dwell in agreeing that because it very much looks like a Russian thing to do it must have been the Russians this time as well.

What I really dislike is that people with different opinions are always called fools or idiots or what ever. Is that a British thing?

I kind of like arz's inputs. Whether he's playing devil's advocat, trolling or seriously arguing doesn't matter to me. He is the necessary antipole here.

I admit I stopped reading the posts of ProsperityJoy. Too much bold, too much red. But then I don't read "the Blick" either.
Challenge is that nobody knows the details.
It could be that the UK intelligence services have incontrovertible evidence that it was Russia or it could all be fake news, we simply do not know!

There seems to be an assumption these days that Governments are obliged to publish all the evidence they have to simply satisfy the curiosity of the hoi polloi. This may not be the best way to build a criminal case?

In any case there is certainly a lot of circumstantial evidence against Russia even if not any direct evidence published so far.

It seems to be quite common for ex- Russian spies and Putin opponents to die in suspicious circumstances.

Russian airline mogul Nikolai Glushkov, 68, was found with "strangulation marks" at his home in New Malden by his daughter Natalia on Monday night, 12th March just a week after the poisoning. Conspiracy theorists might want to claim there was a Russian assassin doing a UK tour
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  #455  
Old 04.04.2018, 14:02
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Huffington Post: Jeremy Corbyn's 'Thoughtful' Approach To Salisbury Attacks Vindicated By Porton Down Caution, Diane Abbott Says

The Guardian: UK urged to counter 'disinformation' from Russia over novichok

"Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, who was a commander of the now disbanded Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment, said the lack of detail from the British government was allowing Russia to win its “disinformation” campaign about the attack on the former Russian spy and his daughter.

De Bretton-Gordon told the Guardian: “Having seen a lot of various intelligence sources I feel 100% confident that the prime minister is correct that the Russians are guilty. The Russians do appear to be on the front foot with communications and their disinformation campaign is putting the UK on the back foot.”"


Wonder whether Corbyn's "thoughtful approach" is going to end up making him look as if he doesn't trust the British security services.
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  #456  
Old 04.04.2018, 14:05
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Huffington Post: Jeremy Corbyn's 'Thoughtful' Approach To Salisbury Attacks Vindicated By Porton Down Caution, Diane Abbott Says

The Guardian: UK urged to counter 'disinformation' from Russia over novichok

"Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, who was a commander of the now disbanded Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment, said the lack of detail from the British government was allowing Russia to win its “disinformation” campaign about the attack on the former Russian spy and his daughter.

De Bretton-Gordon told the Guardian: “Having seen a lot of various intelligence sources I feel 100% confident that the prime minister is correct that the Russians are guilty. The Russians do appear to be on the front foot with communications and their disinformation campaign is putting the UK on the back foot.”"


Wonder whether Corbyn's "thoughtful approach" is going to end up making him look as if he doesn't trust the British security services.
"Wonder whether Corbyn's "thoughtful approach" is going to end up making him look as if he doesn't trust the British security services." Worked for Trump vs US Intelligence services.
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Old 04.04.2018, 14:13
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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But anyway, considering the US is now the largest gas producer, I think there is plenty to go around.
Probably not yet.

Gas trade by pipline takes place with Canada and Mexico only (used to be mostly imports), and LNG liquefying and shipping capacity needs to be built first. This is happening already so the situation will be different in a couple years.

Likewise with crude, though perhaps to a lesser extent. Crude oil exports were mostly illegal for 40 years until 2016. Like LNG, the export capacity needs to be built first, not least the ability to handle today's supersized tankers.
Quote:
Russia has consistently denied any involvement in Ukraine, despite overwhelming proof. It's a joke, even Russians know that Russia is sending weapons, tanks, troops. There is a mountain of evidence. But all Russian officials still to this day officially deny it. This spy case is small potatoes to 10,000+ people killed since 2014 along the Russia/Ukraine border.
Ahhh, the beauty of private armies:
Russia supplies the Russian equivalent of Academi (formerly known as Blackwater or Xe Services) with state-of-the-art material, has some obscure entity task them with military operations in Ukraine, and can still claim completely truthfully that no Russian military is operating in the Ukraine.

I just made that up but I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's the modus operandi Russia uses for operations in the Ukraine.
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Old 04.04.2018, 14:24
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Some good news

Source

The policeman could also go home.
I find that quite a bit odd.

What's been reported on the Novichok victims in Russia that occured during development is that you can't escape the poison, it will get you sooner or later. Yet both UK victims recover within 5-6 weeks.
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Old 04.04.2018, 14:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I find that quite a bit odd.

What's been reported on the Novichok victims in Russia that occured during development is that you can't escape the poison, it will get you sooner or later. Yet both UK victims recover within 5-6 weeks.
going home isn't the same as recovering, who knows what long term damage has been done
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Old 04.04.2018, 14:51
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"Russian designed" doesn't mean Russian made. If you look at motivation to escalate the cold war there is more likelihood that the CIA was behind it or even their poodles in the UK. Not that any of us knows Jack sh*t about who did it.
Somebody out there knows who did it.

Of course the British government is not going to give up its sources, but they seem fairly sure about it. Oddly though, they were also fairly sure about WMD in Iraq

I dont see the advantage for Britain in a new cold war, we already have invested a fair bit of taxpayers cash in nuclear sub refits and a new aircraft carrier.
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