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  #521  
Old 14.04.2018, 21:48
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

LOL, ProsperityJoy, you're just jumping on this new rumor?!

Sure, I'd trust the Swiss lab. the most (sorry, prejudice? LOL. The Swiss have no reason to jump on anybody's boat, so yeah, I would) BUT - to put in in bold like you do: The Swiss Lab has not said anything publicly yet.

We got a British rumor now and a Russian one.
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  #522  
Old 14.04.2018, 23:01
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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it's just as reliable as western propaganda.
No, it really isn't.
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  #523  
Old 14.04.2018, 23:49
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

I wouldn't trust a single crap of NATO/US/UK propaganda unless the truth came out.

They simply lied too much to be trusted.

Not that the Russians are anyhow better. It's just both sides lost any trust long time ago.
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  #524  
Old 15.04.2018, 00:00
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

In case of confusion the OPCW report states;
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The results of the analysis by the OPCW designated laboratories of environmental and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.
it also states;
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The name and structure of the identified toxic chemical are contained in the full classified report of the Secretariat, available to States Parties.
Source

If the Russians want to claim the OPCW found something different then they have the full OPCW report in their hands?
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  #525  
Old 15.04.2018, 09:32
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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....If the Russians want to claim the OPCW found something different then they have the full OPCW report in their hands?
One should think so as they're the accused.

Still no Swiss news on this claim that the Swiss lab. named a different poison. If there was any truth in this, there would be SOME info/reaction on it on Swiss news. Me thinks.

This is two days old and kind of interesting for those who speak German:
https://www.srf.ch/news/internationa...keine-klarheit

ProsperityJoe: The video you added to your post later: I generally do not take people who talk in this tone of voice seriously. You do?
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  #526  
Old 15.04.2018, 10:18
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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One should think so as they're the accused.

Still no Swiss news on this claim that the Swiss lab. named a different poison. If there was any truth in this, there would be SOME info/reaction on it on Swiss news. Me thinks.

This is two days old and kind of interesting for those who speak German:
https://www.srf.ch/news/internationa...keine-klarheit

ProsperityJoe: The video you added to your post later: I generally do not take people who talk in this tone of voice seriously. You do?
Look...you've been going up-and-down this thread with your silly, puerile posts much on the level of a 8 year old. If anything you are "annoying." My name is ProsperityJoy NOT ProsperityJoe...! For goodness sakes, you can't even get that right! Another thing, I could care less about "how you feel" about people who talk in a certain tone of voice. It appears that your barometer for discerning truth is COMPLETELY lacking in common sense and profundity. And NO...posting to me does not make you look clever. It simply highlights your ignorance! You are totally VOID of any good sense. This is the one and only time I will post to you. In fact, you've been put on my "IGNORE LIST." Ain't technology grand!!! And by the way....Switzerland has NOT DENIED Lavrov claims either. Until Switzerland states that his claims are NOT true, it's reasonable to assume that there is validity to what Lavrov says. Even more so since the west has not been "playing by the rules" and has acted unethical at every turn. Take some time to get some "real" knowledge you may find your life much more fulfilling....! GOOD BYE and GOOD LUCK!

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 15.04.2018 at 10:30.
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Old 15.04.2018, 10:31
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Look...you've been going up-and-down this thread with your silly, puerile posts much on the level of a 8 year old. If anything you are "annoying." My name is ProsperityJoy NOT ProsperityJoe...! For goodness sakes, you can't even get that right! Another thing, I could care less about "how you feel" about people who talk in a certain tone of voice. It appears that your barometer for discerning truth is COMPLETELY lacking in common sense and profundity. And NO...posting to me does not make you look clever. It simply highlights your ignorance! You are totally VOID of any good sense. This is the one and only time I will post to you. In fact, you've been put on my "IGNORE LIST." Ain't technology grand!!! And by the way....Switzerland has NOT DENIED Lavrov claims either. Until Switzerland states that his claims are NOT true, it's reasonable to assume that their's something to what Lavrov says. Even more so since the west has not been "playing by the rules" and has acted unethical at every turn. Take some time to get some "real" knowledge you may find your life much more fulfilling....! GOOD BYE and GOOD LUCK!
I agree with most of your premises about the global political situation, about Western leaders gone crazy and would rather risk sinking the ship than losing the race, etc. - but you lose credibility by attempting to condescend. It makes you look like a fool and also hurts the credibility of your arguments.
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  #528  
Old 15.04.2018, 10:41
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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If the Russians want to claim the OPCW found something different then they have the full OPCW report in their hands?
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One should think so as they're the accused.
Russia are "State" members of OPCW so they are entitled to all such reports.

Thanks for the SRF article. Just one item makes me suspicious of it; it repeats the false claim "the head of the British Chemical Weapons Laboratory said in an interview that his laboratory was unable to determine the exact source of the poison".

What he actually said was "it is not our job to determine the source" which is quite different.
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  #529  
Old 15.04.2018, 10:44
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Well, yes. We, the public (at least in the UK) can only demand that state authorities release that information. The BBC doesn't have more to say either. It's probably part of the OPCW protocol. Would you have liked them to release the formula to the public, perhaps with easy manufacture and administration instructions on the back? Would that have made you happier?......
I've been pondering this and I don't see why the OPCW can not simply say - in the public part of the report - it was Nowitschok or it was not Nowitschok. After all, the entire world knows that name now (without being able to produce it).

What is the gain in calling upon an independent organisation who then basically says "yeah, we know what it was now but we only tell those who already say they know and if others want to know the truth they have to ask ..... those who already said they know"?

What kind of sick game is this?! Something happened. And somebody accused someone. Nothing special about that. But normal procedures are, a third party checks it out, takes the stand and a judge decides who's in the wrong.
Not sure who could take the role of the judge here - Den Haag? - however, this whole thing contradicts any constitutionality. It's childsplay on the highest level and one is tempted to say "oh, grow up".
And no, I don't see it at all as sophisticated political activity. And the longer everybody insists on speculating instead of goingn forward clearing things up, the more I'm tempted to wonder: What ist this supposed to take my mind/attention of?

To be clear: Like anyone else I ain't got a clue who's guilty of what, therefore I don't have an opinion about it either. I'm still naively waiting for the proof one way or the other. Who knows, I might even live to hear it. Should they lock all evidence up for 50 years it's doubtful though.
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  #530  
Old 15.04.2018, 10:52
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Switzerland has NOT DENIED Lavrov claims either.
Maybe Switzerland does not read Russian propoganda?

It is not the responsibility of Switzerland to support or deny that is the role of the OPCW.
The OPCW sent the samples to four different laboratories and they have not even publicly confirmed that one of them was in Switzerland.

It strains our credulity to expect us to believe that one lab out of four would come up with a different result!

As always with such incidents like the passenger aircraft downing the strength of the Western case is they have one story line that they stick to.

The weakness of the Russian case is they keep changing their story, usually without supplying any supporting facts.

If they do provide facts then they are dubious. There was the the Russian theory that they have now discarded that the aircraft was shot down by a Ukraine aircraft which story they supported with poorly faked documentation.
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  #531  
Old 15.04.2018, 10:59
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I've been pondering this and I don't see why the OPCW can not simply say - in the public part of the report - it was Nowitschok or it was not Nowitschok.
The OPCW have an official list of chemical weapons based on the declarations of their members.

Russia never declared Nowitschok to the OPCW therefore it is not on their official list. Such declaration includes not only the name but the detailed specification.
OPCW cannot formally confirm a substance when they do not have an official standard to compare samples with.

That was and is the Russian game of deception.
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  #532  
Old 15.04.2018, 10:59
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
Look...you've been going up-and-down this thread with your silly, puerile posts much on the level of a 8 year old. If anything you are "annoying." My name is ProsperityJoy NOT ProsperityJoe...! For goodness sakes, you can't even get that right! Another thing, I could care less about "how you feel" about people who talk in a certain tone of voice. It appears that your barometer for discerning truth is COMPLETELY lacking in common sense and profundity. And NO...posting to me does not make you look clever. It simply highlights your ignorance! You are totally VOID of any good sense. This is the one and only time I will post to you. In fact, you've been put on my "IGNORE LIST." Ain't technology grand!!! And by the way....Switzerland has NOT DENIED Lavrov claims either. Until Switzerland states that his claims are NOT true, it's reasonable to assume that there is validity to what Lavrov says. Even more so since the west has not been "playing by the rules" and has acted unethical at every turn. Take some time to get some "real" knowledge you may find your life much more fulfilling....! GOOD BYE and GOOD LUCK!
Well, the 8-year old thanks you for the green pebbles you gave her in this very thread - you won't see this though as I'm on the ignore list. Which is a good thing because I seem to be rather threatening to your blood pressure.

<<Switzerland has not denied Lavrov claims either>>
No it hasn't. That's the interesting part in this. Switzerland will have to speak up in this sooner or later.

However, I usually don't bother denying false accusations either.
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  #533  
Old 15.04.2018, 11:14
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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OK...here are some of the links with stories about the independent Swiss Lab finding.
"The Swiss center mentioned is the Spiez Laboratory controlled by the Swiss Federal Office for Civil Protection and ultimately by the country’s defense minister.
The lab is also an internationally recognized center of excellence in the field of the nuclear, biological, and chemical protection and is one of the five centers permanently authorized by the OPCW."
There are 19 laboratories permanently authorized by the OPCW, not five as you claim. I suppose you stated five to try to reinforce your claim that the Swiss lab was one of the ones used for the Salisbury tests?
Source of the OPCW list

When I say your this sentence of yours about 5 centres was the most accurate part of your post then you will understand why it is not worth me commenting further on your post.
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  #534  
Old 15.04.2018, 11:21
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Here is some additional information I found about the BZ agent:

"BZ is an odorless military incapacitating agent. (intended to incapacitate rather than kill). It was invented by the Swiss pharmaceutical company Hoffman-LaRoche in 1951. BZ was eventually weaponize for delivery in the M44 generator cluster and the M43 cluster bomb, until all such stocks were destroyed in 1989 as part of a general downsizing of the US chemical warfare program. BZ is odorless and nonirritating with delayed symptoms several hours AFTER contact."

Uhm...sounds familiar since the Skirpals were not "supposedly effected" by the nerve agent for several hours AFTER contact! BZ seems more and more like the culprit! On the other hand information I found about Novichok: Novichok can take effect almost immediately, within 30 seconds to two minutes. In powder form, it might take slightly longer. They are the deadliest nerve agents ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX and others up to ten times more potent than soman. Keep in mind, one of the scientist that developed Novichok back in the 70's and 80's is working for the United States...! I'm sure "all" nerve agents were probably not destroyed! Just like Novichok was "supposedly" destroyed but still made by some entities! Some of you are trying to make it seem like the UK have some master plan behind their buffoonery. NO...UK staged a false flag and GOT CAUGHT...! Anyway, the plot thickens...Have a nice day everyone...

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 15.04.2018 at 12:06.
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  #535  
Old 15.04.2018, 11:35
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
Here is some additional information I found about the BZ agent:

"BZ is an odorless military incapacitating agent. (intended to incapacitate rather than kill). It was invented by the Swiss pharmaceutical company Hoffman-LaRoche in 1951. BZ was eventually weaponize for delivery in the M44 generator cluster and the M43 cluster bomb, until all such stocks were destroyed in 1989 as part of a general downsizing of the US chemical warfare program. BZ is odorless and nonirritating with delayed symptoms several hours AFTER contact."

Uhm...sounds familiar since the Skirpals were not "supposedly effected" by the nerve agent for several hours AFTER contact! BZ seems more and more like the culprit! On the other hand information I found about Novichok: Novichok can take effect almost immediately, within 30 seconds to two minutes. In powder form, it might take slightly longer. They are the deadliest nerve agents ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX and others up to ten times more potent than soman. Keep in mind, one of the scientist that developed Novichok back in the 70's and 80's is working for the United States...! Anyway, the plot thickens...Have a nice day everyone...
"all such stocks were destroyed in 1989 " Thanks for setting our minds at rest about possible use of BZ
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  #536  
Old 15.04.2018, 12:24
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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[/B] Keep in mind, one of the scientist that developed Novichok back in the 70's and 80's is working for the United States...!
If the agent used was BZ then how is this statement relevant?
Do try to keep to one line of argument


Quote:
I'm sure "all" nerve agents were probably not destroyed! Just like Novichok was "supposedly" destroyed but still made by some entities!
The Russian claim is that Novichok never existed so how could it have been "supposedly" destroyed?
Please explain!
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Old 15.04.2018, 13:53
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I'm still naively waiting for the proof one way or the other. Who knows, I might even live to hear it. Should they lock all evidence up for 50 years it's doubtful though.
Exactly.

i know that you understand this, but many people don't... We can speculate all we like, and many people believe that the internet can / should give them the answers to absolutely everything, but the fact remains that there are things that we shouldn't have access to. When an event is subject to intelligence reports, possibly coming from active agents in the field, for the sake of their safety, security and ongoing ability to get access to such intelligence, then the public at large do not have the right to know everything. I'm reminded of the old wartime saying...'Loose lips sink ships'.

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As always with such incidents like the passenger aircraft downing the strength of the Western case is they have one story line that they stick to.
Lavrov's pretty busy at the moment. He was in talks on Friday regarding the downing of Flight MH17. If we can't get logical answers from him on that, then we're buggered getting anything logical from him on anything else, and personally, I see MH17 as a far bigger issue than Salisbury.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/0...ds-and-russia/
The hunt for those who brought down flight MH17 is the main issue on the table during Friday’s talks between foreign minister Stef Blok and his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov, news agency ANP said.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:
The hunt for those who brought down flight MH17 is the main issue on the table during Friday’s talks between foreign minister Stef Blok and his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov, news agency ANP said.

Read more at Dutch
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Old 15.04.2018, 14:13
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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it's just as reliable as western propaganda.
No, it really isn't.
Exactly. Russian propaganda works far more reliably .
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Old 15.04.2018, 15:00
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Exactly.

i know that you understand this, but many people don't... We can speculate all we like, and many people believe that the internet can / should give them the answers to absolutely everything, but the fact remains that there are things that we shouldn't have access to. When an event is subject to intelligence reports, possibly coming from active agents in the field, for the sake of their safety, security and ongoing ability to get access to such intelligence, then the public at large do not have the right to know everything. I'm reminded of the old wartime saying...'Loose lips sink ships'.....
I possibly misunderstand what you are saying but if I'm not: According to your arguing, the public should then also not be "informed" by the governement (the British in this case) that they strongly suspect Russia. Either the whole story or none of it.

Because as you say:.'Loose lips sink ships'.
Doesn't look too comfi for our ship at the moment, does it.
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Old 15.04.2018, 16:39
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Imagine that you get a huge fine because the police strongly suspects that you have been speeding
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