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  #561  
Old 19.04.2018, 10:03
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It is interesting how easily people throw around the term "false flag" operation.
In reality there have been very, very few real false flag operations in history and the truth soon emerges which then causes problems for the operators.

It is hard to believe any serious and professional intelligence organisation would take the risks inherent in creating a career ending false flag operation.
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Old 19.04.2018, 19:11
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Now that we know the truth - Russia did it and is trying to cover up with lies and smears - What do you suggest should be done ?
So we do know the truth now? And what was the motive, what did Russia gain from it?
Showing the Brits - the world - that they can is the only thing I can think of. That could be a motive though.

It's definitely not serious politics. The Brits pointing the finger within minutes of it happening (instead of waiting for the OPCW report ), the Russians trying to pull in the Swiss - of all people, roflmao - to take sides.

The Russian's defence is as unserious as the - imo - too quick accusations of GB were.
If this were a movie, it would flop big time.
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  #563  
Old 19.04.2018, 21:41
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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So we do know the truth now? And what was the motive, what did Russia gain from it?
We will likely never know 100% of the truth. As for motive... It's a bit of peacocking. A display of power to all who will witness it. It's saying that no matter who of our people you give sanctuary to, we will always be able to get to them, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. That's pretty powerful.

My question is...Why now?
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Old 20.04.2018, 09:48
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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We will likely never know 100% of the truth. As for motive... It's a bit of peacocking. A display of power to all who will witness it. It's saying that no matter who of our people you give sanctuary to, we will always be able to get to them, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. That's pretty powerful.

My question is...Why now?
Now, probably because Putin just elected himself yet again to be the omnipotent Tzar of Russland. I bet there are a whole bunch of people in Russland both in the military and government who are not wholly supportive of his political tactics and motives.
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  #565  
Old 21.04.2018, 10:51
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It is claimed British police have identified suspects!

It is thought that a search of flight manifests in and out of the UK has yielded specific names in the hunt for the Skripals’ would-be assassins. Police have also drawn on extensive CCTV footage in Salisbury.

Britain is practically covered with CCTV cameras and many are linked into a central police data storage system.

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Old 21.04.2018, 13:06
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It is believed that any suspects will be back in Russia by now and may have been elected to the Duma.
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  #567  
Old 21.04.2018, 13:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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In reality there have been very, very few real false flag operations in history and the truth soon emerges which then causes problems for the operators.

It is hard to believe any serious and professional intelligence organisation would take the risks inherent in creating a career ending false flag operation.
wiki disagrees...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

And that's just 'false flag' stuff, let alone the similar but different 'just allow it to happen' type events (Pearl Harbor, sinking of Lusitania, etc.)

And of course, false flags and 'allowed to happen' type events are secretive by default - so to think that there have been 'very, very few real false flag operations in history' is just overwhelmingly naive.

'Career ending'? They give those guys in the 3 letter spy agencies awards for coming up with these ideas...

Lyman Lemnitzer was given the post of Supreme Allied Commander of Nato after signing off on Operation Northwoods.
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  #568  
Old 21.04.2018, 15:14
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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wiki disagrees...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

And that's just 'false flag' stuff, let alone the similar but different 'just allow it to happen' type events (Pearl Harbor, sinking of Lusitania, etc.)

And of course, false flags and 'allowed to happen' type events are secretive by default - so to think that there have been 'very, very few real false flag operations in history' is just overwhelmingly naive.

'Career ending'? They give those guys in the 3 letter spy agencies awards for coming up with these ideas...

Lyman Lemnitzer was given the post of Supreme Allied Commander of Nato after signing off on Operation Northwoods.
"wiki disagrees..." Well the "espionage" section has no examples of false flag operations and there are no false flag operations listed in the last 50 years.
Impressive list!

"'Career ending'? They give those guys in the 3 letter spy agencies awards for coming up with these ideas... " Then you quote Lyman Lemnitzer who was never in a 3 letter spy agency and and a few months after Operations Northwoods was refused he was actually downgraded from Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS).

That CJCS role is by U.S. law, the highest-ranking and senior-most military officer in the United States Armed Forces.
Lemnitzer is one of the only three CJCS's to be denied a second term as CJCS.
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Old 21.04.2018, 16:36
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"wiki disagrees..." Well the "espionage" section has no examples of false flag operations and there are no false flag operations listed in the last 50 years.
Impressive list!

"'Career ending'? They give those guys in the 3 letter spy agencies awards for coming up with these ideas... " Then you quote Lyman Lemnitzer who was never in a 3 letter spy agency and and a few months after Operations Northwoods was refused he was actually downgraded from Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS).

That CJCS role is by U.S. law, the highest-ranking and senior-most military officer in the United States Armed Forces.
Lemnitzer is one of the only three CJCS's to be denied a second term as CJCS.

There are examples of false flag operations in the past 50 years. Scroll to the bottom. The ones more than 50 years ago took a long time to be exposed as false flags anyway. More recent events false flags would likely follow suit. It's irrelevant, anyway- has human nature changed so much in the past 50 years that people would no longer do such things? More than likely they've just improved their technique.

Lemnitzer downgraded? Denied? They made him Supreme Allied Commander the next year.

". His 14-year tenure as a four star general on active duty is the longest in the history of the U.S. Army. He was also the only person in history to serve as Army Chief of Staff, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander for NATO."

He wasn't officially CIA, he just signed off on their plans to start a faux Cuban terror campaign against civilians in major US cities... and nobody cared enough to remove him from power. Hmm..
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Old 21.04.2018, 17:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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There are examples of false flag operations in the past 50 years. Scroll to the bottom. The ones more than 50 years ago took a long time to be exposed as false flags anyway. More recent events false flags would likely follow suit. It's irrelevant, anyway- has human nature changed so much in the past 50 years that people would no longer do such things? More than likely they've just improved their technique.

Lemnitzer downgraded? Denied? They made him Supreme Allied Commander the next year.

". His 14-year tenure as a four star general on active duty is the longest in the history of the U.S. Army. He was also the only person in history to serve as Army Chief of Staff, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander for NATO."

He wasn't officially CIA, he just signed off on their plans to start a faux Cuban terror campaign against civilians in major US cities... and nobody cared enough to remove him from power. Hmm..
When Lemnitzer was Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJSC) at the same time he happened to be Chairman of the NATO Military Committee.

Later after he was no longer CJSC he was made Supreme Allied Commander and so reported to the NATO Military Committee.
The Military Committee is the senior military authority in NATO and gives direction to the two Commanders.

Clear now?
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  #571  
Old 21.04.2018, 21:34
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"wiki disagrees..." Well the "espionage" section has no examples of false flag operations and there are no false flag operations listed in the last 50 years.
Impressive list!

"'Career ending'? They give those guys in the 3 letter spy agencies awards for coming up with these ideas... " Then you quote Lyman Lemnitzer who was never in a 3 letter spy agency and and a few months after Operations Northwoods was refused he was actually downgraded from Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS).

That CJCS role is by U.S. law, the highest-ranking and senior-most military officer in the United States Armed Forces.
Lemnitzer is one of the only three CJCS's to be denied a second term as CJCS.
I was responding to the same post whilst sitting on the tram this morning, but got caught up in work. The False Flag attacks listed on Wiki are not "False Flag" attacks (as we think of them) that are post 9/11 types of attacks that conspiracy theorist want to believe are being carried out to bring nations into major conflicts. Often with the aim to overthrow regimes or to support the military industrial complex or oil resources and influence in a region, rather they are sneaky attacks using the markings of the enemy in Trojan Horse style attacks.

There seems to be no hard evidence available or at all to suggest that a democratic nation would use a False Flag attack to draw itself into a conflict on such a scale. And Pearl Harbour was definitely not a False Flag attack.

Lying about intelligence might be employed to do that. But I somehow doubt that acts like 9/11 would even be considered by an intelligence agency, I mean seriously. The military industrial complex would have still made billions if there was no Iraq or Afghan war by selling weapons to regimes that were pro US in the first place. The CIA were made to look incompetent. Israel would not be into stoking more conflict in the region it couldn't benefit from existing in a destabilised ME. Why can't people accept that there really was simply a bunch of radical fundamentalist terrorists with financial backing and a plan that worked.

Now the conspiracy theorists think that Assad doesn't use chemical weapons and that its all a ploy to get dragged into a further quagmire in the ME, including escalating tensions with Russia, how can the US or Europe benefit from that? Its utter BS. I agree there were diplomatic and democratic protocols that weren't followed in the retaliation, but in the end somebody has to stand up and say no to both Assad and Russia.

End of rant.
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Old 21.04.2018, 23:04
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I was responding to the same post whilst sitting on the tram this morning, but got caught up in work. The False Flag attacks listed on Wiki are not "False Flag" attacks (as we think of them) that are post 9/11 types of attacks that conspiracy theorist want to believe are being carried out to bring nations into major conflicts. Often with the aim to overthrow regimes or to support the military industrial complex or oil resources and influence in a region, rather they are sneaky attacks using the markings of the enemy in Trojan Horse style attacks.

There seems to be no hard evidence available or at all to suggest that a democratic nation would use a False Flag attack to draw itself into a conflict on such a scale. And Pearl Harbour was definitely not a False Flag attack.

Lying about intelligence might be employed to do that. But I somehow doubt that acts like 9/11 would even be considered by an intelligence agency, I mean seriously. The military industrial complex would have still made billions if there was no Iraq or Afghan war by selling weapons to regimes that were pro US in the first place. The CIA were made to look incompetent. Israel would not be into stoking more conflict in the region it couldn't benefit from existing in a destabilised ME. Why can't people accept that there really was simply a bunch of radical fundamentalist terrorists with financial backing and a plan that worked.

Now the conspiracy theorists think that Assad doesn't use chemical weapons and that its all a ploy to get dragged into a further quagmire in the ME, including escalating tensions with Russia, how can the US or Europe benefit from that? Its utter BS. I agree there were diplomatic and democratic protocols that weren't followed in the retaliation, but in the end somebody has to stand up and say no to both Assad and Russia.

End of rant.
"Pearl Harbour was definitely not a False Flag attack." That was certainly a very strange allegation!
Are there really people who believe the US themselves attacked Pearl Harbour to provide a reason for the US to attack Japan? How ridiculous!!
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  #573  
Old 21.04.2018, 23:10
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Meanwhile in Russia - russian official interviewing to an Israeli channel doesn't like the question about the Gas attack.
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  #574  
Old 21.04.2018, 23:17
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"Pearl Harbour was definitely not a False Flag attack." That was certainly a very strange allegation!
Are there really people who believe the US themselves attacked Pearl Harbour to provide a reason for the US to attack Japan? How ridiculous!!
what are you on about? whoever stated that?
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  #575  
Old 22.04.2018, 00:10
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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When Lemnitzer was Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJSC) at the same time he happened to be Chairman of the NATO Military Committee.

Later after he was no longer CJSC he was made Supreme Allied Commander and so reported to the NATO Military Committee.
The Military Committee is the senior military authority in NATO and gives direction to the two Commanders.

Clear now?
Yes - it is quite clear that not only did he sign off on attacking US civilians in a false flag op, but also that he was not arrested and tried for treason and conspiracy to commit mass murder.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....d=150&tab=page

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  #576  
Old 22.04.2018, 00:41
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Are there really people who believe the US themselves attacked Pearl Harbour to provide a reason for the US to attack Japan? How ridiculous!!
There are people who believe Pearl Harbor was a 'Let It Happen' type operation.

The reasoning is that Roosevelt wanted America to enter the war against Nazi Germany, so he thought it would be a good plan to let the Japanese sink half the Pacific Fleet.

Well, some people believe it.
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Old 22.04.2018, 10:54
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"Pearl Harbour was definitely not a False Flag attack." That was certainly a very strange allegation!
Are there really people who believe the US themselves attacked Pearl Harbour to provide a reason for the US to attack Japan? How ridiculous!!
I misread a previous post.

Still I don't believe PH was a "lets let it happen", to drag the US into WWII its was a humiliating and devastating attack on the US. But it did work in swaying public opinion about entering the war.
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Old 29.04.2018, 23:38
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Bob Dudley, the American boss of the British oil giant BP, was forced to flee Moscow after blood test results indicated he was being poisoned slowly, an ex-employee has claimed.

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Old 30.04.2018, 00:01
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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I misread a previous post.

Still I don't believe PH was a "lets let it happen", to drag the US into WWII its was a humiliating and devastating attack on the US. But it did work in swaying public opinion about entering the war.
“Sooner or later the Japanese will commit an overt act against the United States and the nation will be willing to enter the war.”

-FDR

http://www.independent.org/issues/article.asp?id=408

"According to a diary entry of Secretary of War Henry Stimson, President Franklin D. Roosevelt stated in late November 1941 that the problem at hand was how to “maneuver” the Japanese “into firing the first shot,” thus enabling the American government to gain the full support of its people."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion.../#.WuZCYC_5wxc

http://www.newsherald.com/news/20161...bor-documented
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Old 30.04.2018, 01:36
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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“Sooner or later the Japanese will commit an overt act against the United States and the nation will be willing to enter the war.”

-FDR

The Pacific war might have been entirely separate from the European war.

In the event, Hitler declared war on the US, but he didn't have to. Nothing in the Tripartite Pact obliged him to do that.

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