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Old 04.05.2018, 09:07
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Meanwhile in Czech Republic: "Novichoc kinda rings a bell... I think we produced some of it at some point... but purely for research purposes and I am sure we destroyed it all. When? Oh, last year..."


https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ts...schok-101.html
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  #582  
Old 17.05.2018, 12:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Another little update: The otherwise pretty unsuccessful German intelligence service apparently managed to "turn" a Russian scientist in the 90s. He handed over a sample of Novichock. Germany had signed treaties to not possess chemical weapons so even this sample could not possibly enter the country... so it was shipped to Sweden and analyzed there. The analysis was shared by the German chancellor Kohl with the western allies. This was a relevant development as at the time the destruction of ABC weapons was in full swing. It showed that the Russians were not honest when it came to their weapon programs as they did not disclose the existence of this substance or the research program around it. Kohl apparently made it personally clear to Jelzin that the substance was uncovered, but nobody in Nato wanted to make a big deal out of it as long as the Russians were still honestly destroying their nukes...
At least the US made some of the agents on their own to research them, the UK possibly as well.


So without further proof that it could really only have been the Russians do the West look a bit stupid now. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/skr...k-bnd-101.html
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  #583  
Old 17.05.2018, 13:24
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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......So without further proof that it could really only have been the Russians do the West look a bit stupid now. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/skr...k-bnd-101.html
<<Dann war klar, es handelt sich um einen bisher unbekannten binären Kampfstoff. Dieser wird aus mindestens zwei Chemikalien hergestellt, die auch in der Landwirtschaft zum Einsatz kommen und für sich betrachtet harmlos sind. Erst die Mischung macht sie hochgefährlich.>>
'It became clear, it was a to date unknown binary agent. It is produced from at least two chemicals, which are also used in agriculture and - each on it's own - are harmless. The mixture of them makes it highly dangerous.'

The next thing I expect is Syngenta to be blamed.
That would be the Chinese now
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  #584  
Old 17.05.2018, 14:41
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Meanwhile in Czech Republic: "Novichoc kinda rings a bell... I think we produced some of it at some point... but purely for research purposes and I am sure we destroyed it all. When? Oh, last year..."


https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ts...schok-101.html
If one secret service can be unable to undig the truth it's perfectly conceivable that both are, if not now then on another case.

So the government doesn't get to know what actually happened in its own state, by one of the state's own agents. Not even upon request. I'd find that rather disturbing if I was Czech.
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  #585  
Old 17.05.2018, 14:59
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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<<Dann war klar, es handelt sich um einen bisher unbekannten binären Kampfstoff. Dieser wird aus mindestens zwei Chemikalien hergestellt, die auch in der Landwirtschaft zum Einsatz kommen und für sich betrachtet harmlos sind. Erst die Mischung macht sie hochgefährlich.>>
'It became clear, it was a to date unknown binary agent. It is produced from at least two chemicals, which are also used in agriculture and - each on it's own - are harmless. The mixture of them makes it highly dangerous.'

The next thing I expect is Syngenta to be blamed.
That would be the Chinese now
"each on it's own - are harmless." Organophosphates are certainly not harmless! the EPA banned most residential uses of organophosphates in 2001.
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  #586  
Old 17.05.2018, 15:04
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"each on it's own - are harmless." Organophosphates are certainly not harmless! the EPA banned most residential uses of organophosphates in 2001.
And Trump hasn't repealed it yet?
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  #587  
Old 17.05.2018, 15:20
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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"each on it's own - are harmless." Organophosphates are certainly not harmless! the EPA banned most residential uses of organophosphates in 2001.
You're barking up the wrong tree, I'm only the quoter/translator of that part of the article.


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If one secret service can be unable to undig the truth it's perfectly conceivable that both are, if not now then on another case.

So the government doesn't get to know what actually happened in its own state, by one of the state's own agents. Not even upon request. I'd find that rather disturbing if I was Czech.
We would have to ask them but I think The Czech have to learn having the right to be disturbed first?
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  #588  
Old 17.05.2018, 15:24
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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And Trump hasn't repealed it yet?
Patience my boy, patience!
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  #589  
Old 17.05.2018, 15:26
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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You're barking up the wrong tree, I'm only the quoter/translator of that part of the article.



We would have to ask them but I think The Czech have to learn having the right to be disturbed first?
I would never bark up a tree that was treated with Organophosphates.

Anyway I just wanted to inform people before they tried this at home!
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  #590  
Old 17.05.2018, 18:49
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Almost 100 Wiltshire police officers and staff have sought psychological support after the nerve agent attack in Salisbury, the Guardian can reveal.

Among those who have asked for help were officers who initially responded to the collapse of the former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, and those who were at or close to the various investigation sites in subsequent days and weeks.

Source

Terrible for them, every little ache or pain will cause anxiety.
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  #591  
Old 18.05.2018, 15:55
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Doctors say former Russian spy Sergei Skripal has been discharged from a hospital, more than two months after he was poisoned with a nerve agent.
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  #592  
Old 30.05.2018, 19:10
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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He's a former spy who was jailed in Russia and then handed over to the UK in a prisoner swap deal. In terms of intelligence information he's a busted flush, of no further threat to Russia, so so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him. On the other hand Russia's enemies may have a lot to gain with a false flag operation on British soil.
Arkady Babchenko: Ukraine staged fake murder of journalist

Ukraine staged the murder of a Russian dissident journalist in Kiev on Tuesday in what it said was a sting operation to foil a Russian assassination plot.

Arkady Babchenko sent shockwaves around the world when he arrived at a press conference on Wednesday, less than 24 hours after he was reported dead.

The head of Ukraine's security services, Vasyl Hrytsak, said the elaborate sting was set up to catch hitmen paid by Russian forces.

Police said they had made one arrest.

Babchenko's wife said that she had found him at the entrance to their apartment block with bullet wounds in his back, and he was reported to have died in an ambulance on the way to hospital.

There were gasps and applause as the journalist entered the room for the press conference on Wednesday. He thanked the Ukrainian security services for saving his life and said he had no choice but to take part.

"I did my job. I'm still alive," Babchenko said.

"I have buried many friends and colleagues many times and I know the sickening feeling," he added. "I am sorry you had to experience it. But there was no other way."

What do we know about the operation?
Babchenko said he was informed a month ago about an alleged Russian plot to kill him. He said he was in constant contact with Ukrainian security services over the course of the past month, adding that he thought they had been planning the operation for up to two months.

Mr Hrytsak said the operation began after Ukrainian security services were informed about a plot to kill Babchenko.

He said Russian security forces had recruited a Ukrainian citizen to find hitmen within Ukraine. He said the citizen approached several acquaintances, including war veterans, offering $30,000 for the contract killing, one of whom revealed the plot to the security services.

They then informed Babchenko, apparently determining that the only way to reveal the plotters was to stage a fake hit.

It was not clear if Babchenko's wife Olechka was aware that his death had been faked. He apologised to her at the press conference. "Olechka, I am terribly sorry," he said, "but there were no other options".

Ukrainian police said they had made one arrest in connection with the sting.

The reaction
Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement that the staged murder was "a masquerade" done for "propagandistic effect".

She said Russia was happy that Babchenko was alive. "I wish it were always like that," she said.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said the country would offer protection to Babchenko. "It is unlikely that Moscow will calm down. I've given an order to provide Arkady and his family with protection," he said on Twitter.

The Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty network posted video footage of Babchenko's colleagues reacting to news that he was alive.

Source
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  #593  
Old 31.05.2018, 11:31
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

There you go trolling again - your post has nothing to do with the poisoning.

When this affair started you said you wanted to know the truth. The facts all show that the poisoning was done by Russia (means, method, motivation) but as the facts don't suit your political agenda you make irrelevant posts to muddy the water.

Trollimoding again.
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  #594  
Old 31.05.2018, 12:09
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

While I believe that the poisoning was done by a Russian... we learned in the meantime that the means are not clear: every western country and half of the former Eastern block new about the substance for 20 years, several made their own. The guy had probably quite some enemies as a double agent...

So the U.K. has probably some evidence but no definite proof. Which is a little embarrassing given how they are behaving and communicating. The parallels to the Ukraine case are that all we know is that the Ukraine, not Russia, pulled off some weird stunt. Do I believe them? Sure. But that’s not enough. You can’t just claim Russian spys to be doing something criminal- you have to prove it beyond doubt.
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  #595  
Old 31.05.2018, 12:12
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Maybe they can prove it but not publicly.
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  #596  
Old 31.05.2018, 13:16
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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While I believe that the poisoning was done by a Russian... we learned in the meantime that the means are not clear: every western country and half of the former Eastern block new about the substance for 20 years, several made their own. The guy had probably quite some enemies as a double agent...

So the U.K. has probably some evidence but no definite proof. Which is a little embarrassing given how they are behaving and communicating. The parallels to the Ukraine case are that all we know is that the Ukraine, not Russia, pulled off some weird stunt. Do I believe them? Sure. But that’s not enough. You can’t just claim Russian spys to be doing something criminal- you have to prove it beyond doubt.
We have enough facts now to go beyond the "believe" phase.
Only the Russians have the production facilities for such a quantity of Novichok and it's beyond the reach of the other alleged enemies.

All the scenarios which russia provided proved to be wrong and Russia is blocking access to the facility where Novichok was (Is?) produced.
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Old 31.05.2018, 13:25
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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While I believe that the poisoning was done by a Russian... we learned in the meantime that the means are not clear: every western country and half of the former Eastern block new about the substance for 20 years, several made their own. The guy had probably quite some enemies as a double agent...

So the U.K. has probably some evidence but no definite proof. Which is a little embarrassing given how they are behaving and communicating. The parallels to the Ukraine case are that all we know is that the Ukraine, not Russia, pulled off some weird stunt. Do I believe them? Sure. But that’s not enough. You can’t just claim Russian spys to be doing something criminal- you have to prove it beyond doubt.
"British counter-terrorism police are reportedly trying to build a case against specific “persons of interest" who have returned to Russia in what could be a major breakthrough in the Salisbury poisoning of Sergei Skripal.

Searches of flight manifests in and out of the UK are believed to have yielded key names in the hunt for the would-be assassins, the Telegraph reported

Police have also drawn on extensive CCTV footage in the English market town"

Plenty of circumstantial evidence then
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Old 31.05.2018, 15:36
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Only the Russians have the production facilities for such a quantity of Novichok and it's beyond the reach of the other alleged enemies.
Any source for that? The news pieces I posted before revealed that Novichok is apparently quite easy to produce. I don't believe it takes a lot of quantity(?), its kind of the point of a nerve agent that a few traces are enough... the news also revealed that countries including Czech Republic, by all means not exactly a power house in defense sciences, produced the stuff as recent as last year.


Honestly: I fully agree that Russia is the only logical conclusion. But at least what has been shown and said publicly is in no way proof. And the next step is to proof that it was indeed the Russian government, not just some ex KGB guy with some unfinished business with mr double agent.


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All the scenarios which russia provided proved to be wrong and Russia is blocking access to the facility where Novichok was (Is?) produced.


Since when is it the job of the defendant to proof his innocence? Russia not allowing access to its most secret labs? Truly shocking. Especially given that the Nato nations plan to upgrade their nuclear arsenals in breech of the international treaties they signed.
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  #599  
Old 31.05.2018, 16:16
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

producing lethal quantities of novichok was so far done only in Russia.

The OPCW has samples,which could be matched against samples in Russian facilities. this would be definite proof - hence Russia reluctance to allow that even though it's has to allow it, as OPCW member.

Russia could then easily prove it's innocence to the delight of corbynistas.

rogue actor, how would that work : some agent would keep a deadly souvenir for years, then decide to use it even though it's much harder then simply pulling a trigger ?

What is annoying are attempts to get Russia of the hook against all available evidence, while quick to blame in other situations without any credible evidence.
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Old 31.05.2018, 16:30
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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producing lethal quantities of novichok was so far done only in Russia.
Again. Any source for that claim?


At the beginning did the UK claim that only the Russians knew about and have produced it. By now do we know that Czech Republic produced some last year, Germany produced some in Sweden twenty years ago and share the receipe with all the Nato partners... and its not exactly a conspiracy theory to expect both the US as well as the UK to then have taken that info and produced some as well... that's in their national security interest to do. God knows who else...


All we have so far is the word of Boris Johnson that the UK has evidence and that it was the Russians... that's not enough, sorry.
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