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  #601  
Old 31.05.2018, 16:39
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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producing lethal quantities of novichok was so far done only in Russia.

The OPCW has samples,which could be matched against samples in Russian facilities. this would be definite proof - hence Russia reluctance to allow that even though it's has to allow it, as OPCW member.

Russia could then easily prove it's innocence to the delight of corbynistas.

rogue actor, how would that work : some agent would keep a deadly souvenir for years, then decide to use it even though it's much harder then simply pulling a trigger ?

What is annoying are attempts to get Russia of the hook against all available evidence, while quick to blame in other situations without any credible evidence.
"rogue actor, how would that work" The Russian chemist Mirzayanov said that there was probably no current stockpile of novichok to steal, because it has a limited shelf life.
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  #602  
Old 31.05.2018, 16:42
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Again. Any source for that claim?


At the beginning did the UK claim that only the Russians knew about and have produced it. By now do we know that Czech Republic produced some last year, Germany produced some in Sweden twenty years ago and share the receipe with all the Nato partners... and its not exactly a conspiracy theory to expect both the US as well as the UK to then have taken that info and produced some as well... that's in their national security interest to do. God knows who else...


All we have so far is the word of Boris Johnson that the UK has evidence and that it was the Russians... that's not enough, sorry.
you also have the word of the OPCW which agrees with Mr. Johnson.

No counrtry produced large amounts of novichok except Russia.
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  #603  
Old 31.05.2018, 17:19
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

There is a lot of oversimplification going on here.

Mixing up a chemical weapon in a laboratory is one thing.
But turning the result into a weapon that can be safely delivered without killing the assassin while retaining its potency requires a lot of work and experimentation.
The only country known to have carried out these tests is Russia.

One needs to know if the agent is equally effective on windy days, rainy days, sunny days, warm days, cold days, high humidity, low humidity, &&&.

Can you deliver the agent a day before the victim touches it or are you limited to a quarter hour.
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  #604  
Old 01.06.2018, 10:08
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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you also have the word of the OPCW which agrees with Mr. Johnson.

No counrtry produced large amounts of novichok except Russia.
Define large amount.

The OPCW says that "The quantity should probably be characterised in milligrams.".
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  #605  
Old 01.06.2018, 10:29
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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The only country known to have carried out these tests is Russia.
I am not claiming that the chemistry involved is simple. But if several other countries produced the substance for research purposes do I expect them to have carried out the exact same sort of tests. Not because they want to use the weapon, but because they need to understand how it works in order to be able to defend against it.
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  #606  
Old 01.06.2018, 12:44
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Going round in circles here...

The intelligence surrounding the Salisbury poisoning is what brought about the accusation of Russia. The use of Novichok is just part of that intelligence. As for the rest of the information / evidence / intelligence... We, the general public, do not have the right to know because it would endanger the lives of agents in the field, and close down lines of intelligence.

The second thing about this that aggravates me is that people think everything can be proven by internet links. The internet, particularly search engines, don't work in that way. It's far easier to 'remove' information from the internet than it is to remove a book on a particular subject from every bookshelf in the World.
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  #607  
Old 04.07.2018, 08:34
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Hopefully not again.

"A man and woman feared to have been exposed to an unknown substance are in a critical condition, prompting police to declare a major incident.

The pair, both in their 40s, were found unconscious in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on Saturday.

Officers initially thought the collapse was drugs-related but have since said they are "open-minded" as to the cause.

Wiltshire Police said further tests on the substance were being carried out in a bid to identify it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052
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  #608  
Old 05.07.2018, 00:59
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Hopefully not again.

"A man and woman feared to have been exposed to an unknown substance are in a critical condition, prompting police to declare a major incident.

The pair, both in their 40s, were found unconscious in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on Saturday.

Officers initially thought the collapse was drugs-related but have since said they are "open-minded" as to the cause.

Wiltshire Police said further tests on the substance were being carried out in a bid to identify it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052
Counter terror agents confirm today it is the same nerve agent as poisoned the two Russians.

So what the hell is going on?

Did the couple stumble on a cache of unused nerve agent? But is supposed to have a short shelf life?
Were the couple deliberately poisoned? By whom? and why?

Are the Russians, or someone else, trying to sow confusion?
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  #609  
Old 05.07.2018, 10:55
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Are the Russians, or someone else, trying to sow confusion?
Well, poisoning a former double agent lets most people shrug their shoulders... if you betray your country and that country is run by a former KGB officer is that the sort of result you can expect.


If however the next victims are totally average people is it terrorism. It will terrorize the average population. That's quite different from confusion IMHO...
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  #610  
Old 05.07.2018, 12:12
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Confusion is right. It is difficult to work out whose interests are best served by all this. But it does look like a very high risk game could be in play.

It [confusion] also results from the way that the information from the Skripal case has been handled, with only choice bits of information being leaked out, and the media not willing (or able) to investigate it has naturally lead to all sorts of theories being promoted. These includes focusing on the level of "protection" provided to the Skripals above and beyond that necessary for their physical protection, especially that of the daughter, Yulia, who may not have been a primary target. Does Sergei Skripal know of possible grounds for the attack on him which may challenge the official story line that there can be no alternatives to a Russian state sponsored action?

Anyway, Surely it is now time for Sergei Skripal to make some sort of appearance now that there are more casualties emerging in apparent connection to this case.
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  #611  
Old 05.07.2018, 13:12
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It would be really nice if the UK could come up with some tangible proof to their accusations....
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Old 05.07.2018, 13:28
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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It would be really nice if the UK could come up with some tangible proof to their accusations....
You don't just trust his word?


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Old 05.07.2018, 13:36
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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You don't just trust his word?





Yeah...............but...........you know what i mean.......
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  #614  
Old 05.07.2018, 13:56
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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It would be really nice if the UK could come up with some tangible proof to their accusations....
How do you know they do not have tangible proof?
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  #615  
Old 05.07.2018, 14:21
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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How do you know they do not have tangible proof?
When you don't show proof there's no proof. Simple.
The British messed this up as never before. Even if it was the Russians, they have no proof and its just blank accusations. Oh, IT MUST BE THE RUSSIANS! Who is it this time? Santa Claus? Random Paki? Or a Eastern European. Typically British, its never them, its always someone else.
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  #616  
Old 05.07.2018, 14:25
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

This must be the weirdest statement ever by the Embassy of a major country?
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Russian embassy: UK ‘dumb’ to think Kremlin would stage nerve attack during World Cup
Source

This is an excuse on the level of a dog ran off with my homework.

Anyway I have seen no statements from the UK blaming Russia so far.

As the French say "Qui s'excuse s'accuse"
Definition is - he who excuses himself accuses himself : making excuses reveals a guilty conscience.
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  #617  
Old 05.07.2018, 14:34
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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This must be the weirdest statement ever by the Embassy of a major country?


Source

This is an excuse on the level of a dog ran off with my homework.

Anyway I have seen no statements from the UK blaming Russia so far.

As the French say "Qui s'excuse s'accuse"
Definition is - he who excuses himself accuses himself : making excuses reveals a guilty conscience.
ok then I am the messiah
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  #618  
Old 05.07.2018, 14:46
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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When you don't show proof there's no proof. Simple.
The British messed this up as never before. Even if it was the Russians, they have no proof and its just blank accusations. Oh, IT MUST BE THE RUSSIANS! Who is it this time? Santa Claus? Random Paki? Or a Eastern European. Typically British, its never them, its always someone else.
So in your alternative world, governments publish evidence in murder cases before they have even arrested a suspect
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Old 05.07.2018, 15:00
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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How do you know they do not have tangible proof?

I think if they had any prooof they wouldhave come up with something by now, if only to back up an increasingly weak accusation.


When the Skripals got hit, we were told the Novichoks was quickly disapated in the atmosphere and would be reduced harmless by humidity.


Plenty of time has gone by and now we here it can stay around for a long time.....by the exact same government body.


It just doesn't add up properly and with no tangible proof the story and accusation gets weaker by the day.



Shit or get off the pot is the phrase that comes to mind !


I am sure their are reasons why we cannot be told everything, security reasons or whatever, but with no real, tangible proof tying this directly and irrefutably to whoever did it, it just sounds like a load of bollocks
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Old 05.07.2018, 15:21
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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So in your alternative world, governments publish evidence in murder cases before they have even arrested a suspect
Not sure whose living in an alternative world. I have zero sympathy for Putin, his cronies and his attempts to re-establish power on Eastern Europe. If anything, I would NOT give him the benefit of doubt as a principle. However, the whole story was botched by the British from the moment it happened. They announced that it was the Russians a few hours after the incident with zero proof and have kept saying its the Russians just to save face. If there was any evidence, it would have been out by now. Talk about fake news...ITS THE RUSSIANS! proof? WHAT PROOF! ITS THE RUSSIANS!
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