Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #701  
Old 08.10.2018, 23:48
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,530
Groaned at 392 Times in 340 Posts
Thanked 16,776 Times in 9,077 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
Second Skripal attack suspect identified as Russian military doctor
Source

So how did the UK manage to get Russian GRU personnel to run their "false flag" operation?
Reply With Quote
  #702  
Old 09.10.2018, 11:09
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 878
Groaned at 137 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 2,081 Times in 793 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
Source

So how did the UK manage to get Russian GRU personnel to run their "false flag" operation?
I think the fact that one of them was a doctor shows that this was in fact a humanitarian effort! The Russians sent a team of friendlies to save Skripal from the unfriendly capitalist forces who were trying to kill him, but unfortunately didn't make it on time. Putin was sad-stricken and beyond words this is why he said all these things, he wasn't his usual self.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #703  
Old 09.10.2018, 13:45
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 184 Times in 132 Posts
Thanked 2,768 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

I have to say, apart from feeling very sad for the lady who died and the three people who were poisoned. This has been the most entertaining news story of the year. I have really enjoyed the ineptitude of the Russian secret service and the stories they’ve been spinning, it’s hilarious (if the use of toxic nerve agents could ever be considered funny it’s this instance). I see a Coen brothers movie in the making! I am quite shocked although not surprised that the US have made very little firm statements or taken any action publicly about this! DT just continues with his democrat bashing tweets.
Reply With Quote
  #704  
Old 09.10.2018, 13:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
I have to say, apart from feeling very sad for the lady who died and the three people who were poisoned. This has been the most entertaining news story of the year. I have really enjoyed the ineptitude of the Russian secret service and the stories they’ve been spinning, it’s hilarious (if the use of toxic nerve agents could ever be considered funny it’s this instance). I see a Coen brothers movie in the making! I am quite shocked although not surprised that the US have made very little firm statements or taken any action publicly about this! DT just continues with his democrat bashing tweets.
Makes you wonder if the ineptitude isn't deliberate. I'm inclined think this is Putin showing the world that Russia will do what they want.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #705  
Old 09.10.2018, 14:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,126 Times in 644 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Russia must have known there was a good chance of the poison being traced to them, especially after the Litvinenko killers left a radioactive/CCTV trail. Maybe they deliberately used methods that would point to them.
Reply With Quote
  #706  
Old 09.10.2018, 15:52
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 184 Times in 132 Posts
Thanked 2,768 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
Makes you wonder if the ineptitude isn't deliberate. I'm inclined think this is Putin showing the world that Russia will do what they want.
Possibly but I would be fairly certain the sanctions and financial and political fallout are not beneficial to Russia either.
Reply With Quote
  #707  
Old 09.10.2018, 18:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,126 Times in 644 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Both suspects of the Salisbury attack apparently received "Hero of the Russian Federation" awards in 2014 and had been in Ukraine. Wonder what heroic acts they performed and if the Skripal mission was their first of that kind.

Skripal attack: Second Salisbury suspect 'decorated' officer

Quote:
The second suspect in the Salisbury poisoning case was a doctor and highly decorated Russian military intelligence officer, an investigative website says.
...
It said President Vladimir Putin had presented him with the Hero of the Russian Federation award in 2014.
...
Outlining in detail how it identified the Salisbury suspect as Mr Mishkin, Bellingcat says he was recruited by Russian intelligence while completing his medical studies, and made several trips to Ukraine, including during the 2013 unrest.
cf.:

Skripal suspect 'was made Hero of Russia' by President Putin


Quote:
A Russian man accused of the Salisbury poisoning is a military officer who received an honour from Vladimir Putin, an investigative website says.
...
the website Bellingcat says he is actually an intelligence officer by the name of Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga.

He has served in Chechnya and Ukraine and was made a "Hero of the Russian Federation" in 2014.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #708  
Old 29.07.2019, 10:59
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,530
Groaned at 392 Times in 340 Posts
Thanked 16,776 Times in 9,077 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Another one?
Quote:
Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny has been hospitalised, with symptoms that one of his doctors said appeared to be “the result of harmful effects of undefined chemical substances”.

Navalny was taken to hospital on Sunday morning from jail, where he was serving a 30-day sentence after being arrested last week
Source

I suppose he was a "sitting duck" in his jail cell
Reply With Quote
  #709  
Old 01.08.2019, 17:26
Aleydis's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 979
Groaned at 32 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 737 Times in 395 Posts
Aleydis has an excellent reputationAleydis has an excellent reputationAleydis has an excellent reputationAleydis has an excellent reputation
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

for a bigger picture / main course

Putin, Vladimir. (2007) “Speech and the Following Discussion at the Munich Conference on Security Policy.” Transcript. President of Russia Website. 12 February 2007. <http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/24034>

Putin, Vladimir. (2016) Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation. Ministry of Foreign Affairs Website. <http://www.mid.ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2542248?p_p_id=101_INSTANCE_cKNonkJE02Bw&_101_INST ANCE_cKNonkJE02Bw_languageId=en_GB>

for a bigger picture / desert

Kissinger, Henry A. (2016) “Kissinger’s Vision for US-Russia Relations.” The National Interest. 4 February 2016. <https://nationalinterest.org/feature/kissingers-vision-us-russia-relations-15111> (from what I have read so far on the subject, this makes the most sense to me)

re RT-bashing: for what it's worth their coverage can help develop critical thinking skills unless you say it is not true because it is on RT
__________________
-> Well-Behaved Women Seldom Make History <-
Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Reply With Quote
  #710  
Old 01.08.2019, 18:08
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,610
Groaned at 77 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 17,469 Times in 7,861 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
Another one?

Quote:
Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny has been hospitalised, with symptoms that one of his doctors said appeared to be “the result of harmful effects of undefined chemical substances”.

Navalny was taken to hospital on Sunday morning from jail, where he was serving a 30-day sentence after being arrested last week
Source

I suppose he was a "sitting duck" in his jail cell
Let's be honest. If Putin wanted Navalny dead, he'd be dead. This is just sending a message.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #711  
Old 21.08.2020, 15:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,126 Times in 644 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
Another one?

Source

I suppose he was a "sitting duck" in his jail cell
Quote:
View Post
Let's be honest. If Putin wanted Navalny dead, he'd be dead. This is just sending a message.
And now a year later, Alexei Navalny is in a coma.

BBC - Alexei Navalny: Doctors say Putin critic can't be moved to Germany



Reassuring to know that the doctors from the world class hospital in Siberia (probably not) for whom their hippocratic oath is more important than not defying the Kremlin (maybe) think it's not poisoning but a metabolic/low blood sugar condition - the kind that causes you to scream in pain before falling unconscious.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #712  
Old 02.09.2020, 18:41
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,530
Groaned at 392 Times in 340 Posts
Thanked 16,776 Times in 9,077 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Novichok nerve agent used in Alexey Navalny poisoning, says German government

Source

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #713  
Old 02.09.2020, 18:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,126 Times in 644 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
[Navalny's] team says he was poisoned on President Vladimir Putin's orders. The Kremlin has dismissed the allegation.

Alexei Navalny: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok - Germany

The US, France, Germany and Canada have agreed with the UK's assessment that Russia's government "almost certainly" approved the Salisbury poisoning.

UK Novichok allegations backed by world leaders
There must be a reason for using this method rather than one that would look like an accident, natural causes, etc. "We deny it, but look what we can do"?
Reply With Quote
  #714  
Old 02.09.2020, 20:49
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,932
Groaned at 467 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 21,183 Times in 8,706 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
There must be a reason for using this method rather than one that would look like an accident, natural causes, etc. "We deny it, but look what we can do"?
Most intentional causes of death have been, through the ages, been for effect, as a deterrent or pure theatre rather than efficiency - including being hung, drawn and quartered, burning and being boiled alive.

Notable exceptions include the guillotine during the French revolution and the gas chambers in WWII.

In this case, the Russian authorities, rather like common gangsters, are sending a warning message.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #715  
Old 03.09.2020, 18:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,126 Times in 644 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It's hard not to wonder whether Navalny will fully recover or be left debilitated. The Salisbury victims, including the one who died, seem to "just" have got it on their skin. Navalny apparently swallowed it.

Alexei Navalny: Germany urges EU action over Novichok poisoning

Quote:
A top ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned that the EU risks becoming irrelevant if it fails to act against Russia over the poisoning of opposition politician Alexei Navalny.

Norbert Röttgen said a major gas deal with Russia must now be reconsidered.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #716  
Old 04.09.2020, 11:32
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,072
Groaned at 41 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 2,722 Times in 1,317 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Interesting is also the almost complete lack of scepticism in the comments from Western politicians regarding this new "incident".
Reply With Quote
  #717  
Old 04.09.2020, 11:49
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 878
Groaned at 137 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 2,081 Times in 793 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
Interesting is also the almost complete lack of scepticism in the comments from Western politicians regarding this new "incident".
What do you mean "scepticism"? Putin's mafia is not even trying hard to cover it's tracks. All the victims are getting poisoned with the same substance and if you follow Bellingcat you'll see that the cases that the media covers are actually only a fraction of all the poisoned people across Eastern Europe. This is a trade-mark of the Russian GRU and they are making it completely intentionally - to scare off anyone who can potentially destabilize them. Putin's Russia is never to be trusted and I hope that Germany will finally impose sanctions on them.
Reply With Quote
  #718  
Old 04.09.2020, 14:27
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,072
Groaned at 41 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 2,722 Times in 1,317 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
. . . and if you follow Bellingcat . . .
Oh really! Well, of course those who focus on one propaganda outlet, will find their capacity for critical thinking severely diminished. So why would the Russian state want to expose itself to the risk of the sanctions many (including yourself) are advocating? Cui bono ?
Reply With Quote
  #719  
Old 04.09.2020, 15:47
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 878
Groaned at 137 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 2,081 Times in 793 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Quote:
View Post
Oh really! Well, of course those who focus on one propaganda outlet,
Bellingcat...propaganda?! Yep, you're right! Pravda.ru is a much more reliable source. And as I explained, Putin has bigger fish to fry, that is to stifle internal opposition and internal competition. Hence the use of novichok in such blatant, obvious and public ways - to serve as warning to others. But then again, pravda has a different version, you are right
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
politically correct police officer Helvetia1967 Jokes/funnies 6 15.01.2018 18:06
Stopped by police officer digitsclimb Transportation/driving 59 23.09.2016 17:53
Police Officer Seeks Apartment pcplod Housing in general 63 01.03.2013 18:32
Police officer punches teen mirfield International affairs/politics 65 17.06.2010 20:37


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0