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Old 08.03.2018, 17:29
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Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Salisbury attack was 'brazen and reckless'
Russian state TV anchor warns 'traitors'

Judging from comments under newspaper articles about this on Facebook along the lines of "well, he was a traitor, wasn't he?" there are quite a few apparently British Facebook users molly coddled in a democracy who are content to see the human rights they enjoy trampled on for others. That's not including the comments suspecting Western secret services behind the poisoning ("why would Russia do this before their elections and the World Cup?") and praising Vladimir Putin. But perhaps they're only being sensible, given that, according to The Sun, one of those poisoned had been criticising Putin on Facebook.
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Old 08.03.2018, 18:18
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

He's a former spy who was jailed in Russia and then handed over to the UK in a prisoner swap deal. In terms of intelligence information he's a busted flush, of no further threat to Russia, so so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him. On the other hand Russia's enemies may have a lot to gain with a false flag operation on British soil.

For the record I am neither pro or anti Russia, i'd just rather operate on the truth.
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Old 08.03.2018, 18:33
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him.
I don't think it's about him personally. But they are making a clear statement that spying for a foreign power is a very bad idea and that no, the UK cannot protect you even if they offer you a deal. The second message is that no, they wont forget or forgive. So even if you manage to run and hide... you'd need to fear for your life even years later.
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Old 08.03.2018, 18:58
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Perhaps another message is that "they" don't give a toss for the lives of others in the vicinity (and by extension in the country?) either given the method used.

It seems particularly disturbing that family members appear to have been targeted deliberately, at the very least the daughter, as they could surely have managed to get him alone if they'd wanted to.
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Old 08.03.2018, 19:11
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Perhaps another message is that "they" don't give a toss for the lives of others in the vicinity (and by extension in the country?) either given the method used.

It seems particularly disturbing that family members appear to have been targeted deliberately, at the very least the daughter, as they could surely have managed to get him alone if they'd wanted to.
"They" have never given a toss for collateral damage, not matter what nation they are from. Western spies are not exactly a human rights group either.

Although some say they party like Oxfam...

I'll get my coat.
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Old 08.03.2018, 19:10
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Why are Russian opponents of the regime always killed in such spectacular ways?
Was the Litwinenko case ever truly solved?
Somebody is trying to leave a "signature".

As Castro said, Russian enemies would make sure the case would be unique enough to point fingers on Russia easily.

Innocent until proven guilty. Once again the press is messing about. On both sides.
Decent press coverage would be: This has happened, these are the victims, this weapon has been used, no suspects yet.
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Old 09.03.2018, 12:50
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Why are Russian opponents of the regime always killed in such spectacular ways?
Was the Litwinenko case ever truly solved?
Somebody is trying to leave a "signature".

As Castro said, Russian enemies would make sure the case would be unique enough to point fingers on Russia easily.

Innocent until proven guilty. Once again the press is messing about. On both sides.
Decent press coverage would be: This has happened, these are the victims, this weapon has been used, no suspects yet.
It sends a strong signal. If you cross us, you will die horribly, and don't think the British government will be able to protect you. I doubt the number of Russians willing to pass secrets to the UK for £100k will have increased in the last few days.
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Old 09.03.2018, 10:38
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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In terms of intelligence information he's a busted flush, of no further threat to Russia, so so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him.
Even more, killing the person after swap deal would be an enormous threat to the swap deal concept in general. No intelligence service would do that.
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Old 09.03.2018, 10:54
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Even more, killing the person after swap deal would be an enormous threat to the swap deal concept in general. No intelligence service would do that.
The UK said by now that the poison used was a nerve agent. "Not Sarin or VX, but something much rarer". I'd say only intelligence services have access to that sort of chemical weapons... not necessarily the Russians, but I dont see anyone else benefiting from the case. It's not like the UK needed any reasons to not trust the Russian government...
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Old 09.03.2018, 11:04
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

Castro, are you a commie?
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Old 09.03.2018, 11:09
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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Castro, are you a commie?
Test says 'No'

Says I'm a socialist
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Old 09.03.2018, 11:15
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

They are exhuming the remains of his wife and son to see if they were also killed in suspicious circumstances. It could be Moscow, it could be the Russian Mafia, it could be any secret service. Although I don't think that the CIA or MI6 go in for taking out the families of informants or spies. This seems a very vengeful and callous act.
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Old 09.03.2018, 13:00
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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The UK said by now that the poison used was a nerve agent. "Not Sarin or VX, but something much rarer". I'd say only intelligence services have access to that sort of chemical weapons... not necessarily the Russians, but I dont see anyone else benefiting from the case. It's not like the UK needed any reasons to not trust the Russian government...
The BBC were reporting this morning that "only a handful of labs around the world could have made this substance"... yeah one of which is about 3 miles down the road from where the incident happened.
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Old 09.03.2018, 17:19
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

As somebody who's country has been occupied by 'friendly' Russian troops killing locals for 21 years due to fact that we were moving very slightly towards democracy (Czechoslovakia) - never expect anything good from Russian. Common citizens might be +-OK (apart from rampart alcoholism and f**ed up attitude to life in general), but politicians are a joke of a human being, worst of the worst scum.

Putin is at least very consistent - he only cares about 'Russia's interest' - meaning staying in power and keeping friendly oligarchs untouchable and richer. Don't mind him personally stashing billions of USD in (not only) Zurich's banks via his close friends of course. Things like human decency, democracy, freedom or respect for another human being or life are a joke there. You know, things that make the country we live in the greatest out there in my humble eyes. They don't mind seeing the world burn, not at all.

His attitude to this kind of spies is pretty well known (they should die very slowly in a public way). And what sends the message more loud and clear than using a nerve agent, killing also his family (the fact that all other family members died in recent years is probably not an accident). North Korea sent the same message few months ago, for exactly same reasons - big FU to everybody while doing internal cleaning publicly.

I am no friend of US and their usually pretty abhorable foreign politics, but in this game, compared to Russians, they are holy knights in shining armor. No sympathy for the devil.
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Old 09.03.2018, 11:10
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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...i'd just rather operate on the truth.
I suspect your chance of getting that in this case is just about nil.
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Old 09.03.2018, 11:18
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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He's a former spy who was jailed in Russia and then handed over to the UK in a prisoner swap deal. In terms of intelligence information he's a busted flush, of no further threat to Russia, so so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him. On the other hand Russia's enemies may have a lot to gain with a false flag operation on British soil.

For the record I am neither pro or anti Russia, i'd just rather operate on the truth.
The FSB has an established policy to deter people who want to swap sides...

Paraphrased, the policy is - if you swap sides, you will never be safe. Your family will never be safe. It may take 10, 20 or 30 years... but your family will not survive.

Makes for a very effective deterrent...
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Old 09.03.2018, 12:45
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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He's a former spy who was jailed in Russia and then handed over to the UK in a prisoner swap deal. In terms of intelligence information he's a busted flush, of no further threat to Russia, so so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him. On the other hand Russia's enemies may have a lot to gain with a false flag operation on British soil.

For the record I am neither pro or anti Russia, i'd just rather operate on the truth.
You ignore the method, means & motive for a conspiracy theory.

As long as the likely culprit is anti west (Hamas, Iran, Syria, Russia) you give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 19.04.2018, 09:51
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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He's a former spy who was jailed in Russia and then handed over to the UK in a prisoner swap deal. In terms of intelligence information he's a busted flush, of no further threat to Russia, so so I don't see what they have to gain by assassinating him. On the other hand Russia's enemies may have a lot to gain with a false flag operation on British soil.

For the record I am neither pro or anti Russia, i'd just rather operate on the truth.
Now that we know the truth - Russia did it and is trying to cover up with lies and smears - What do you suggest should be done ?
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Old 19.04.2018, 10:03
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

It is interesting how easily people throw around the term "false flag" operation.
In reality there have been very, very few real false flag operations in history and the truth soon emerges which then causes problems for the operators.

It is hard to believe any serious and professional intelligence organisation would take the risks inherent in creating a career ending false flag operation.
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Old 21.04.2018, 13:40
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Re: Poisoning of two Russians and a police officer in Salisbury, UK

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In reality there have been very, very few real false flag operations in history and the truth soon emerges which then causes problems for the operators.

It is hard to believe any serious and professional intelligence organisation would take the risks inherent in creating a career ending false flag operation.
wiki disagrees...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

And that's just 'false flag' stuff, let alone the similar but different 'just allow it to happen' type events (Pearl Harbor, sinking of Lusitania, etc.)

And of course, false flags and 'allowed to happen' type events are secretive by default - so to think that there have been 'very, very few real false flag operations in history' is just overwhelmingly naive.

'Career ending'? They give those guys in the 3 letter spy agencies awards for coming up with these ideas...

Lyman Lemnitzer was given the post of Supreme Allied Commander of Nato after signing off on Operation Northwoods.
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