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  #21  
Old 14.08.2018, 14:56
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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Collapsed during heavy rainfall so that might have something to do with it.
Was also hit by lightning just before it collapsed:

https://www.quotidiano.net/cronaca/g...rada-1.4088377

Tom
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  #22  
Old 14.08.2018, 14:58
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

Heavy rainfall shouldn't cause a bridge like that to collapse, even if it was quite an old bridge.
It seems like in this case, the first failure was in one of the support columns. One of the survivors claims the central pillar crumbled, and the rest followed it. This stinks of a lack of maintenance. A bridge that important and that critical should be regularly checked and maintained, and shut down or restricted as and when required. They were doing work to shore up the foundations of the bridge at the time...should they have reduced traffic on the bridge if they knew the foundations needed work?

The responsible agency should be asked some very uncomfortable questions and people need to answer for this.
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  #23  
Old 14.08.2018, 15:23
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

At least 22 dead now:

http://genova.repubblica.it/cronaca/...ada-204085390/

Tom
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Old 14.08.2018, 15:24
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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Yep, just discussing with a colleague. I've been across it many times, he countless times, and we work with people from that area.

Tom
I've been on it countless times and should have take it on Saturday. Will have to go via Milan / Bologna. I've always hated that stretch of road.
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Old 14.08.2018, 15:30
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

22 deaths so far. Seems like the ambulance guy that was quoted as saying dozens dead, may not have been far off the mark.

And Tom, stop agreeing with me. It makes me uncomfortable.
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Old 14.08.2018, 15:33
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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I've been on it countless times and should have take it on Saturday. Will have to go via Milan / Bologna. I've always hated that stretch of road.
How comes? Did you always suspect it'd collapse one day? Do you also get nervous driving through long tunnels?
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  #27  
Old 14.08.2018, 15:35
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

That's dreadful and how sad for the families. I agree with those that have said the bridge should not simply collapse with poor weather. It's a massive structural failure that I'd guess has been coming for a long time and should have been prevented.

The U.S. should sit up and take notice. Many bridges there are in poor shape, terrible accidents just waiting to happen. Infrastructure investment is expensive and not very "sexy" but it is important.
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Old 14.08.2018, 15:49
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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The U.S. should sit up and take notice. Many bridges there are in poor shape, terrible accidents just waiting to happen.
Back in the early '80s, I arrived at a collapsed section of I95 in CT about 20 minutes after the fact.

Seems some bolts had failed.

One of my housemates at the time has since become a bridge inspector.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 14.08.2018, 15:49
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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Collapsed during heavy rainfall so that might have something to do with it.
It doesn't.
Apparently the design of this bridge has been criticised since day 1, and it looks like they already spent in maintenance about 80% of the construction cost since 1967.
Some of the maintenance was required to fix bumps that originated by poor design and by ignoring the effects of the cement viscosity. Others to replace main structures of the bridge.

For those who understand Italian - https://www.linkiesta.it/it/article/...o-male-/39127/
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  #30  
Old 14.08.2018, 15:52
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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Was also hit by lightning just before it collapsed:

https://www.quotidiano.net/cronaca/g...rada-1.4088377

Tom
To expand on this:

According to an eyewitness he did see a lightning strike hit a pillar after which the concrete started to fall apart and after that the whole thing collapsed.

If this was the reason it was nothing more or less than a faulty lightning protection and the bridge itself might have had a proper construction itself, lightning strikes hitting buildings, bridges, towers etc.. are a very normal happening and protection is costly but from a technical point of view technically extremely simple.
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  #31  
Old 14.08.2018, 15:55
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

That stretch of autstrada as you wind through the hills and valleys around Genoa always gives me the willies, whether you're going direction France or Italy. It's a seemingly endless sequence of tunnels, bridges, and winding sections, and the Italians drive like crazy along it.
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  #32  
Old 14.08.2018, 16:00
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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It doesn't.
Apparently the design of this bridge has been criticised since day 1, and it looks like they already spent in maintenance about 80% of the construction cost since 1967.
That would boil down to 1.56% of the building costs spend on maintenance per year. Take along inflation and it is even more reasonable to me. The Golden gate bridge for example does cost about 3 times it's construction cost per year on maintenance such says nothing about the construction.

(can't read the article due to my lack of Italian)
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  #33  
Old 14.08.2018, 16:04
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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I've been on it countless times and should have take it on Saturday. Will have to go via Milan / Bologna.
Umm, you do realize that the Bologna ring road has been closed since last week?

Tom
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  #34  
Old 14.08.2018, 17:09
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

Just looking at the constantly updating news reports and seeing those rescue workers working in the wreckage is hair-raising. It's still throwing it down with rain and there must be hundreds of tons of concrete, metal and mangled vehicles completely unsecured and at the mercy of unstable, wet ground and gravity.

I hope none of it dislodges - the consequences would be horrific.
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  #35  
Old 14.08.2018, 17:28
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

35 dead now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45183624

Tom
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  #36  
Old 14.08.2018, 17:28
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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Just looking at the constantly updating news reports and seeing those rescue workers working in the wreckage is hair-raising. It's still throwing it down with rain and there must be hundreds of tons of concrete, metal and mangled vehicles completely unsecured and at the mercy of unstable, wet ground and gravity.

I hope none of it dislodges - the consequences would be horrific.
Christ, imagine if there was somebody trapped down there, slowly being overcome by the rising water level.
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  #37  
Old 14.08.2018, 18:04
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

A very clean cut



If you put pieces together, wouldn't you put the joints on top of a pillar instead of right after it?
Just wondering as a layman.

Last edited by curley; 15.08.2018 at 19:53.
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Old 14.08.2018, 18:18
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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Collapsed during heavy rainfall so that might have something to do with it.
Must have been some really big rain-drops
...I read they were doing some "foundation work"? And were "monitoring it"?
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Old 14.08.2018, 18:19
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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A very clean cut


I'll bet the pants of that Basko truck driver isn't very clean

Last edited by 22 yards; 15.08.2018 at 21:39. Reason: Ginormous image in quote replaced at quotee's (curley's) request
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Old 14.08.2018, 18:54
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Re: Major bridge collapse near Genoa

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A very clean cut

If you put pieces together, wouldn't you put the joints on top of a pillar instead of right after it?
Just wondering as a layman.
Not aware of this exact structure.

Those huge concrete structures are a sort of huge lego, one cannot make one segment from one pole to the other since this would make the building blocks to big and due to the change in size due to cold and heat one cannot build with such big blocks, so one has to use "smaller" blocks, that allow the material "working" due to the shrinking and expanding. A tough winter can be -20C and full wind on it, and a hot summer like we just had can make the bridge go up to over 40C, now imagine the extra length a bridge does get, this causes engineering problems which they mostly solve by creating expansion joints by using blocks with some space in between them (or simply more poles if possible, tho poles are expensive) which can expand slightly in every direction and above all towards each other. These spaces are often filled up with rubber so you do not easily see them, but take a look at bigger bridges/viaducts you drive over and almost all with have lines over the width of the whole bridge.

So it is very normal to make poles and place the road on that, if the poles have large distance like here, they lay a block in between the segments which are on the poles, if the distance is even longer they will make the poles higher and have a cable from the pole to hold a segment, and simply fill up the rest with lose segments, these loose segments simply rest on the other steady segments due to ledges of 10 to 50 cm.

Those legdes will have broken of now due to the incredible forces so it looks like a clean cut now.

Hope this makes sense to people..
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