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  #61  
Old 12.10.2018, 13:27
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

people here seem to think incinerators are magical machines taht leave no residue.


those still leave Fly ash and IB Ash. which still need to be disposed. Less straws -> less ash -> less particulate in the ocean.


..and the energy produced by those is less than 2% iirc in CH. it is not like you are contributing to our net input by being forgetful of your disposal.


CH has a per capita waste double of Mexico per municipality/canton. 45% or so is household waste ; that means us .
(50% recycling though for CH, so hopp schweiz!)
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  #62  
Old 12.10.2018, 13:34
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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Let me help you with that pattern: the ozone layer has been really weakened and the increased green house effect is the source of the climate change. Its happening and it is a fact. I find it bizarre that people still debate about it, what we should debate about are the necessary next steps. the key problem is that most people in the governments are men and women in their 50s... and it seems to be human nature to have more short term survival instincts than the capability to plan ahead for generations.


Plastic: I love the smugness of the thread so far. Its all the bloody Asians dumping it in the Ocean, isn't it? We are all so awesome at recycling and stuff... The thing is that this plastic comes from the one region of the planet where we put the vast majority of our factories to. That microplastic might come from a drinking straw used by some Indonesian, it might just as well come from some waste from a factory making toys for Switzerland. And recycling meant for most of the world till the beginning of this year that they sold their plastic trash to China. Now the Chinese decided to not buy everyones crap anymore and the stuff is piling high in the west. Back then did people pay for recycling plastic as a resource, now you can get paid to accept it.


I lived five years in South East Asia and spend most of my weekends scuba diving. Its not some myth, the plastic trash is absolutely visible as soon as you enter the ocean. Ive been to some of the most remote places imaginable and it was full of trash that clearly wasn't produced there. Anyone who thinks that this is some local problem is naïve.
Two facts:
- over 50% of all plastic ever made was produced since 2002
- about three billion humans currently rely on fish as their main source of protein.


It really does not take much to see the problem.
this is a very enlightened and excellent post, thank you very much!

Also avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth. Biggest analysis to date reveals huge footprint of livestock - it provides just 18% of calories but takes up 83% of farmland

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...mpact-on-earth
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  #63  
Old 12.10.2018, 13:38
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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Also avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth. Biggest analysis to date reveals huge footprint of livestock - it provides just 18% of calories but takes up 83% of farmland

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...mpact-on-earth
Human over-population is probably the major cause of pollution overall.
From this comes every other ill: chopping down forests, more CO2, more cooking polltuon, pressure on resources.

Given a choice of fewer humans or my bacon, bacon wins every time...
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Old 12.10.2018, 13:43
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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1970's - New ice age
1980's - Ozone Layer
Early 1990's - Acid Rain
Late 1990's - Global Warming
2000's - "Climate Change"
2018 - Ocean Plastics

I'm starting to see a pattern here.
The reduction in acid rain is visible. We have far more homeless people on the streets...
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  #65  
Old 12.10.2018, 14:10
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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Biggest analysis to date reveals huge footprint of livestock - it provides just 18% of calories but takes up 83% of farmland
But the taste is worth every square inch of it!

Tom
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:11
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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But the taste is worth every square inch of it!

Tom
vegan food is excellent if you know how to cook
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:14
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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vegans make excellent food if you know how to cook them
FTFY.

Tom
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:19
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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people here seem to think incinerators are magical machines taht leave no residue.


those still leave Fly ash and IB Ash. which still need to be disposed. Less straws -> less ash -> less particulate in the ocean.


..and the energy produced by those is less than 2% iirc in CH. it is not like you are contributing to our net input by being forgetful of your disposal.
Fly ash is filtered and collected. What's left over is peanuts which get's turned into aggregates or buried in the ground. Beluga whale isn't going to choke to death on plastic from Switzerland if you enjoy a weekly caramel frappuccino.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:24
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

@ loz1983: every little helps to quote plastic abusing Tesco
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:24
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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Beluga whale isn't going to choke to death on plastic from Switzerland if you enjoy a weekly caramel frappuccino.
And if it did, I'd happily eat the whale (raw)!

Tom
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:26
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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vegan food is excellent if you know how to cook
People will consider veganism on its own merits, form their own opinions, make their own choices. And choose bacon mostly.

Having some some zealot banging on about veganism is counter productive and tedious.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:29
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

@gbn: are you calling me a zealot? did you read the article I posted about how persons eating meat and dairy have a negative impact on he planet?
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:29
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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vegan food is excellent if you know how to cook
And have time to make more than one supermarket trip a week to restock with enough fresh veg for all those veg-heavy meals? Or is that a false impression?
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:33
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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And have time to make more than one supermarket trip a week to restock with enough fresh veg for all those veg-heavy meals? Or is that a false impression?
its probably a false impression Reb! You can make double and freeze half: pasta sauces, stews, curries, etc. Also frozen vegan sausages etc. these days its easier to be a vegan the trick is to be organized.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:41
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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Fly ash is filtered and collected. What's left over is peanuts which get's turned into aggregates or buried in the ground. Beluga whale isn't going to choke to death on plastic from Switzerland if you enjoy a weekly caramel frappuccino.

it is 75000 t/a that doesn't need to be there as a potential risk ( FlUWA processes is mostly concerned with heavy metals, so that is the collation made). Buried in a ground means transport to a type C landfill.


I'm ok with not having straws if it helps reduce that risk.


so yeah a beluga might choke on it, and it sort of does make a difference.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:41
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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But indirectly you are making a difference (does that make you a closet eco-warrior? ). It's not rocket science to just use what you absolutely need to use.

Seriously, though, if everyone just dialled down the attitude towards disposable plastic and reused stuff, regardless of whether you're living in Switzerland or Swaziland or anywhere, the production of it would slow and the disposal would fall.

The production of plastics is also pretty heavy going on the environment, too. The argument for rubbish incineration in Switzerland is irrelevant in this case.
People need to understand that this isn't a plastics problem but rather it's a littering problem. Or rather "waste management". And we should be very skeptical as to what will be the outcome of this fashionable cause. All it takes is David Attenborough in sombre voice as a pelican flies around with a plastic six-pack ring on its beak, in a place you'll never visit, and the world goes crazy.

That European governments have jumped on this is not surprising. Remember the last great environmental cause when everyone in Europe was in agreement? We were all encouraged to buy diesel cars to reduce CO2, and now we have a massive air quality problem across European Cities. There is a problem, but no matter how few bamboo cups and jute bags you use, this problem will never be solved. Governments will tell you that you're making a difference because for them it means more taxation, more regulation and more control.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:45
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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People need to understand that this isn't a plastics problem but rather it's a littering problem. Or rather "waste management". And we should be very skeptical as to what will be the outcome of this fashionable cause. All it takes is David Attenborough in sombre voice as a pelican flies around with a plastic six-pack ring on its beak, in a place you'll never visit, and the world goes crazy.

That European governments have jumped on this is not surprising. Remember the last great environmental cause when everyone in Europe was in agreement? We were all encouraged to buy diesel cars to reduce CO2, and now we have a massive air quality problem across European Cities. There is a problem, but no matter how few bamboo cups and jute bags you use, this problem will never be solved. Governments will tell you that you're making a difference because for them it means more taxation, more regulation and more control.
you're being perverse. of course its a littering problem, and that involves plastic and other packaging.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:49
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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you're being perverse. of course its a littering problem, and that involves plastic and other packaging.
I should have added that it's actually a littering problem in the third world. Some investment in infrastructure there would do far more for Albatros chicks than your 18 month old Bag for Life that's infested with e. coli.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:50
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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People need to understand that this isn't a plastics problem but rather it's a littering problem. Or rather "waste management". And we should be very skeptical as to what will be the outcome of this fashionable cause. All it takes is David Attenborough in sombre voice as a pelican flies around with a plastic six-pack ring on its beak, in a place you'll never visit, and the world goes crazy.

That European governments have jumped on this is not surprising. Remember the last great environmental cause when everyone in Europe was in agreement? We were all encouraged to buy diesel cars to reduce CO2, and now we have a massive air quality problem across European Cities. There is a problem, but no matter how few bamboo cups and jute bags you use, this problem will never be solved. Governments will tell you that you're making a difference because for them it means more taxation, more regulation and more control.
You're just over-thinking it.

All I suggested was to just use what you need and basically don't be wasteful and dispose of stuff properly. If everyone did this we would have a much smaller mess to deal with.

No biggie, no drama.
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Old 12.10.2018, 14:54
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Re: Drowning in Plastic

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pasta sauces, stews, curries, etc. Also frozen vegan sausages etc.
Vegan sausages, curries, stews and pasta sauces?



Tom
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