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  #141  
Old 25.10.2018, 13:15
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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I saw what you did there. You added "arse" to his name. That's amazing. Can I kiss you?
I'd advise against kissing omtatsat. You see, I suspect he's a guy hanging lifelessly in his wing chair, hands rested on a keyboard. Every now and then he gets an electric shock which causes his fingers to jump erratically about the keyboard.

You kiss him at such a moment you could be in deep shit.
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  #142  
Old 25.10.2018, 13:36
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

Anyway, back to Mr Khashoggi's watch...

What evidence has been offered that the events played out as described, other than the risibly implausible "his watch was recording it all and transmitting it to his phone"?

I mean, even the Saudis admit he's dead, but all the bonesaw business - what is this actually based on?
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  #143  
Old 25.10.2018, 13:46
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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Anyway, back to Mr Khashoggi's watch...

What evidence has been offered that the events played out as described, other than the risibly implausible "his watch was recording it all and transmitting it to his phone"?

I mean, even the Saudis admit he's dead, but all the bonesaw business - what is this actually based on?
The third from last paragraph here (quoted earlier in this thread and maybe by now superseded by more concrete statements) https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...here-stay.html does make a statement about the quality of the evidence available.
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  #144  
Old 25.10.2018, 13:51
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

The whole "His Apple Watch recorded everything" is the biggest bullshit I've read in a long time - and the media continues to report it like it's a given.


https://appleinsider.com/articles/18...ts-apple-watch




There is no cell-service for the Watch in Turkey.


There are no apps to do what these reports suggest happened. It



It's all part of a greater plan to disguise the fact that the Turks have probably wired every embassy from top to bottom like Christmas tree and are listening in to pretty much everything being said inside.


The upside is that once again it demonstrates how gullible both the public and the press are and you can literally not trust anything written on any news-site unless it's very domain-specific and you are an expert in the subject yourself.
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  #145  
Old 25.10.2018, 14:09
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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The upside is that once again it demonstrates how gullible both the public and the press are and you can literally not trust anything written on any news-site unless it's very domain-specific and you are an expert in the subject yourself.
It also puts a glaring light on the cocky contempt held by an element of the world's leaders that the public will swallow any kind of transparent wishy-washy bullshit.
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  #146  
Old 25.10.2018, 14:39
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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It also puts a glaring light on the cocky contempt held by an element of the world's leaders that the public will swallow any kind of transparent wishy-washy bullshit.
Yeah, but you see, the bigger part of the public does!
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  #147  
Old 25.10.2018, 14:50
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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Sick comment banalising this whole thing!
We realise that there are always going to be assassinations. This one is pretty terrible in its method, in the complacent manner that it was carried out and by the fact it was carried out on someone publicly critical of the Saudi regime. But my comment merely reflected how some evil and corrupt governments seem to not care in the slightest whether it is public knowledge anymore. Less cloak and dagger and more bludgeon and saw or perfume bottle and sightseeing trip!

Let’s not forget Saudi Arabia is renowned for its use of dismemberment and public executions as forms of punishment, so should we be surprised? I think the point here is it thrusts western dealings with a barbaric state into the limelight.
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  #148  
Old 25.10.2018, 15:03
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

Agreed.


Reminds everyone what they are dealing with.


At least, no politician can say he hasn't heard anything conclusive.
Not any longer.
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  #149  
Old 25.10.2018, 15:04
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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The whole "His Apple Watch recorded everything" is the biggest bullshit I've read in a long time - and the media continues to report it like it's a given.


https://appleinsider.com/articles/18...ts-apple-watch




There is no cell-service for the Watch in Turkey.


There are no apps to do what these reports suggest happened. It



It's all part of a greater plan to disguise the fact that the Turks have probably wired every embassy from top to bottom like Christmas tree and are listening in to pretty much everything being said inside.


The upside is that once again it demonstrates how gullible both the public and the press are and you can literally not trust anything written on any news-site unless it's very domain-specific and you are an expert in the subject yourself.

The public can only get what information it’s fed. That doesn’t mean that the public believes what is given to the press and relayed to the public. We need to question Erdogans big interest in creating division between Saudi Arabia and the West! That issue for example has not been properly addressed, seeing that Erdogan is a notorious silencer of free speech in his own country, what does he gain from calling out Saudi. Turkey has historically been a place of assassinations and spies, East meets West.

There is no particular shock in the assassination of a dissident journalist. What is shocking is the amount of money that Saudi Arabia spends on weapons from the west to wage war in Yemen and our own complicity in that war, that is displacing millions and killing thousands of civilians. If this one barbaric act sways public consciousness from apathy then maybe that’s a good thing?

I wouldn’t hold my breath though, billions of Dollars, Pounds and Euros are at stake and that’s worth more to our own corrupt governments then a nosey journalists life.
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  #150  
Old 25.10.2018, 16:35
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

I think that in this single case, the truth is unfortunately such that there is no need for Erdogan to spin it someway so it suits his needs.

If the slightest chance had existed that there was a way for the KSA to present a credible, alternative version of the events - I'm pretty sure they'd have done so by now. In fact, I'm pretty sure the US-side literally begged them to do so, given what is at stake for all the people making business there (selling weapons, mostly).

But the lack of any real rebuttal of the theories presented by Turkey as facts makes one thing clear: Trump was at least correct in calling this the "worst cover-up of all times", as cynical as that is.

The media like to concentrate a story on a single person.
In this case, we have a respected journalist, tortured, killed - while his soon-to-be wife waited outside.


Lovely story. You couldn't make this up.


The civilian causalities in Yemen are just a statistic to most people (as in any war) - but the fate of that man has somehow caught the interest of the world.
Which, to be realistic, is just a bit too convenient, too.




There are other, longer-term consequences for MBS: his subordinates will realize that if the sh1t hits the fan, he'll feed them to the wolves. Even his top-echelon.

This will likely result in several people keeping "insurance-policies" from now on, so that at least they won't go down alone.

MBS will be a much weaker leader in the future.
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  #151  
Old 25.10.2018, 16:53
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

Big news: The Saudi state attorney concluded that the death wasn't some accident but indeed a planned assassination.


Sounds blatantly banal, but that's a pretty revolutionary thing for the Saudi state to admit publicly.
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  #152  
Old 25.10.2018, 17:25
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

Saudi Arabia's missing princes: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/magazine-40926963

Between 2015 and 2017, three Saudi princes living in Europe disappeared. All were critical of the Saudi government - and there is evidence that all were abducted and flown back to Saudi Arabia… where nothing further has been heard from them.
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  #153  
Old 26.10.2018, 08:19
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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Unfortunately, quite a lot of us are the British and Irish equivalents of Zeynep and Berat from Samsun, who, through the jammy and entirely undeserved good fortune of having grown up speaking English and having benefited from the ridiculous lack of discrimination which comes with the Free Movement of People, have washed up in Switzerland alongside all these rich, ambitious and/or intelligent people from less fortunate corners of the planet who got here through their own efforts. .
Nonsense, those who ended up on EF are not your average Zeynep and Berat equivalents by any standards and with a few exceptions (as always) they landed perfectly decent jobs due to their education (mainly). It is a matter of personalities and characters which are clashing here, and you have numerous identical episodes with your compatriots too. In this case and others, of course there's a cultural mismatch too, but most people are able to deal with that as long as there's some sort of decorum.....I guess that's the main issue here - the lack of it. And it is not unreasonable, and it is not a question of class or money, or culture - it is a universal, basic, human need or desire. I find these discussions futile and totally avoidable as nobody will get anything from them - well, nothing good or of value anyway. Let's leave it at that, DB. Or not, it's up to you, really.

Back to our topic..... I am surprised that Saudi Arabia gets called out on this one! Everyone tolerated their practices for so long, what's different now? Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch and what not had their eyes on them for decades, and it just didn't matter to anyone. Was no-one sickened by the group photographs, the official visits, the handshakes and all that parade of good will and cooperation?
Showing so clearly the cynicism of the world we all live in....and now, all of a sudden, things appear to surface. We all have to anticipate the next moves in the area as nothing happens just for the sake of justice there. Erdogan who's imprisoning journalists and pretty much everyone who opposes him having to be the one who deals with this stuff...the irony.

Last edited by greenmount; 26.10.2018 at 09:03.
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  #154  
Old 15.11.2018, 13:37
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

This is fantastic, Saudi prosecutor has cleared Crown Prince bin Salman of any wrongdoing whilst seeking the death penalty for five of the people that carried out the killing on his behalf.

#shitholecountry


Saudi prosecutor seeks death penalty in Khashoggi murder case
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  #155  
Old 15.11.2018, 13:48
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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This is fantastic, Saudi prosecutor has cleared Crown Prince bin Salman of any wrongdoing whilst seeking the death penalty for five of the people that carried out the killing on his behalf.

#shitholecountry


Saudi prosecutor seeks death penalty in Khashoggi murder case
The prosecuter's life against those five, maybe?
I can not imagine that country has an independent jurisdiction.
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  #156  
Old 15.11.2018, 14:17
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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This is fantastic, Saudi prosecutor has cleared Crown Prince bin Salman of any wrongdoing whilst seeking the death penalty for five of the people that carried out the killing on his behalf.

#shitholecountry


Saudi prosecutor seeks death penalty in Khashoggi murder case
The only way this incident was going to be cleared was to be washed away with more blood.

No doubt that before being executed, the five will admit that it was their own doing and that no important higher-ups will be implicated. The victim's son will perhaps also make one more appearance to announced he is satisfied with the verdict and that justice has been delivered and that will be the end of the matter.

Everybody will continue to sell arms to Saudi Arabia and continue to buy their oil.
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  #157  
Old 15.11.2018, 15:39
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

I would be surprised if anybody involved in the planning and execution of that operation doesn't end up in front of the headsman.
Or if they don't meet their maker via some other way in the near future.
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  #158  
Old 15.11.2018, 16:33
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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This is fantastic, Saudi prosecutor has cleared Crown Prince bin Salman of any wrongdoing whilst seeking the death penalty for five of the people that carried out the killing on his behalf.

#shitholecountry
Pretty standard procedure IMHO.

If there isn't a smoking gun that absolutely incriminates a politician, just claim the civil service or administartion or security service or whoever acted on its own initiative. The useful thing about the death penalty is that those who may recall a different version of events cannot squeak about it afterwards.
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  #159  
Old 15.11.2018, 16:38
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

Any smart henchman would have foreseen the inevitable and called out sick on the day the death squad was set to fly to istanbul
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Old 15.11.2018, 16:44
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Re: Khashoggi in Saudi Embassy.

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Pretty standard procedure IMHO.

If there isn't a smoking gun that absolutely incriminates a politician, just claim the civil service or administartion or security service or whoever acted on its own initiative. The useful thing about the death penalty is that those who may recall a different version of events cannot squeak about it afterwards.
Something similar happened in England. In 1170.

Which nicely illustrates how Saudi (and the rest of the Arab world for that matter), still have not moved on from the Middle Ages.
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