Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 01.02.2019, 12:18
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,191
Groaned at 279 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 20,883 Times in 7,591 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
How can you seriously believe this? Yes, the US have messed around with your data to try and sway elections, but in China you don't even get to vote!
Do you really believe this? The US used the exact sort of spying on mobile network infrastructure they claim the Chinese want to do (but fail to proof) in their "war on terror": They maybe just try to influence my vote as I happen to be white and comparatively rich. In countries like Yemen did the oh-so-lovely-why-cant-we-get-him-back Obama administration carry out drone strikes. Many of those strikes were purely based on electronic intelligence - the NSA basically decided that a mobile phone which has been called a lot by known terrorists must belong to another terrorist. So the location of that phone got bombed. Death penalties were carried out against phones, not identified people.
Thats not some conspiracy theory, the Americans were even proud about it.


Yes, I find that social score system in China terrible. But I cannot pretend the West, let alone the US have any sort of moral high ground.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
This user groans at Treverus for this post:
  #62  
Old 01.02.2019, 15:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,249
Groaned at 59 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,765 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Yes, the drone war has been out of control for a while.


For the interested reader:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/


And yes, we only reason we think so highly of the US is we (Germany) were probably the last nation they "liberated" that didn't completely go down the drain afterwards (Kuwait doesn't really count and I'd call South Korea a draw, it ended up being a military dictatorship for a couple of decades).


Still, from what I see I can't get myself to like the political system in China either. Beyond the high-tech facade is an oppressive, expansive regime with no tolerance for minorities and diverging opinions and thoughts.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 01.02.2019, 15:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,426
Groaned at 246 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 8,943 Times in 4,684 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
The indictment also accused the company of destroying evidence once it became aware of the investigation.
How neat. Essentially "trust us".

What if the US simply learned from the WMD fiasco?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 01.02.2019, 18:54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

I usually dont swear byt its happy friday and your statement is just fffin stupid. go live in any one of those countries where the US has tageted "phones" as you say it. then come back and let me know how you feel about the USA.

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I find that social score system in China terrible. But I cannot pretend the West, let alone the US have any sort of moral high ground.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at edzoom for this post:
  #65  
Old 02.02.2019, 09:09
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 301
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 211 Times in 135 Posts
KiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeable
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
You get to vote for any one of the suits out of the following choice.

Ten minutes spent reading this thread. Was it funny? No. What did I learn: big brother doesn't wear a recognisable suit
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KiwiSteve for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 06.02.2019, 15:09
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,191
Groaned at 279 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 20,883 Times in 7,591 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
go live in any one of those countries where the US has tageted "phones" as you say it. then come back and let me know how you feel about the USA.
Whats your point? That there are poorer places than the US? Well, yes, there are… but I think the US has created more future terrorists through their drone strikes than they killed… because it turns out that people living in "those countries" dont like the sound of a predator flying over them and not knowing who or what might get bombed next.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06.02.2019, 15:22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 430
Groaned at 70 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 929 Times in 362 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Funny world...the US accuses Huawei that one day it might start spying for the government. In the meantime, the US government is in fact spying (thanks Edward Snowden)
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06.02.2019, 16:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,249
Groaned at 59 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,765 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
Whats your point? That there are poorer places than the US? Well, yes, there are… but I think the US has created more future terrorists through their drone strikes than they killed… because it turns out that people living in "those countries" dont like the sound of a predator flying over them and not knowing who or what might get bombed next.
The predator flies high enough so you don't hear it, AFAIK.

Don't know if you can even hear the missiles come screaming, but I'd be surprised if there was enough time to react other than a quick "Uh-oh" and then it's over.

As usual, the US found the least in-humane solution to a problem that would not exist if they hadn't created it in the first place...

Whether the world would be a better place if China was the no1 superpower - I doubt it. Of all the alternatives, the US is the "least worst" IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06.02.2019, 17:13
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,191
Groaned at 279 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 20,883 Times in 7,591 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
As usual, the US found the least in-humane solution to a problem that would not exist if they hadn't created it in the first place...
I completely disagree on that one.

What separates us from the terrorists is not the way lethal power is used, but that we follow laws and rules. These laws have been introduced for good reasons, most notably to make sure our own governments cannot turn on us and become totalitarian. The most basic ones of those are the human rights. And the most basic one of those is the right to live. While I am generally against any death penalty… I believe even the people who support it will agree that it should only be used in clear and proven cases. You arrest a suspect, you trial him, he has the chance to defend himself and if the proof is clear does a judge give him the appropriate penalty.

Right now does the US government reserve itself the right to kill whoever they want and wherever they want. Without transparent process, laws or anything we fought for the last century. And nobody even claims that there are clear cut cases that are just kept secret - its widely agreed that the CIA did in many cases not even know who they killed.

John Oliver made a piece on it some years ago and while there is little reporting on it: the numbers have just gone up under Trump.

Simply put: there are regions of the world where by now the West is seen as the terrorist in the original sense of the world… and I can fully understand them.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 06.02.2019, 17:51
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 1,837
Groaned at 36 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,338 Times in 1,135 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Quote:
View Post
What separates us from the terrorists is not the way lethal power is used, but that we follow laws and rules. These laws have been introduced for good reasons, most notably to make sure our own governments cannot turn on us and become totalitarian. . . .
This all sounds good, of course, but in an environment where the US legislature is churning out new rules or revoking old ones (also with extra-territorial application) with increasing rapidity and with the transparent purpose of attempting to preserve the US's hegemony in areas where this is seen to be under threat, the so called "Rules Based System" breaks down. In fact, what you go on to describe is just one symptom of the break down of the international rule based order where one nation assumes the right to arbitrarily execute citizens of other nations.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06.02.2019, 18:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,249
Groaned at 59 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,765 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Yes. Currently, the US makes the rules. Most people (most countries) follow them. Most of the rest who don't follow them - I'm not sure I want to spend my life there.

Has been like this ever since August 1945.

If no miracle happens, we've seen the longest part of it though.
But I'm not sure I'm too keen on seeing what's beyond that horizon.

For now, I enjoy my box-seat here in Switzerland, overlooking history as it unfolds below.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 06.02.2019, 18:14
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,119
Groaned at 78 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 15,269 Times in 6,794 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
Whats your point? That there are poorer places than the US? Well, yes, there are… but I think the US has created more future terrorists through their drone strikes than they killed… because it turns out that people living in "those countries" dont like the sound of a predator flying over them and not knowing who or what might get bombed next.
It even goes so far that blue sky is "bad weather".
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...trikes/354548/
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 07.02.2019, 10:06
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,191
Groaned at 279 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 20,883 Times in 7,591 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Meanwhile in the UAE... how some Ex-NSA spies sell their skills to the highest bidder and hack the phones of the enemies of a totalitarian government.

I particularly like how she felt bad when she recognized that they were spying on some Americans. Spying on human rights activists doesnt matter, but a random website user who happens to be American? I cant do that!

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...-spying-raven/
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:11
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,374
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
It even goes so far that blue sky is "bad weather".
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...trikes/354548/

Heart wrenching. But I felt something was missing in the story. The drones are only targeting 13-year-old Pakistani boys named Zubair? Or are they maybe, possibly targeting terrorists? And if that is the case, why isn't little Zubair afraid of them?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:15
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,374
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Quote:
View Post
Meanwhile in the UAE... how some Ex-NSA spies sell their skills to the highest bidder and hack the phones of the enemies of a totalitarian government.

I particularly like how she felt bad when she recognized that they were spying on some Americans. Spying on human rights activists doesnt matter, but a random website user who happens to be American? I cant do that!

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...-spying-raven/
You are right, spies shouldn't have morals. It's one or the other. She's a crap spy. Well, also considering her name and photo are in the news, I'd say she's a REALLY crap spy
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 07.02.2019, 19:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,249
Groaned at 59 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,765 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
Heart wrenching. But I felt something was missing in the story. The drones are only targeting 13-year-old Pakistani boys named Zubair? Or are they maybe, possibly targeting terrorists? And if that is the case, why isn't little Zubair afraid of them?
Usually, if a target has male descendants, they are also targeted so there's no immediate successor.

I think it's in the above mentioned drone-papers.

Don't know if there's an age limit where they don't target boys under 12 or so.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 07.02.2019, 19:51
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,374
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
Don't know if there's an age limit where they don't target boys under 12 or so.
I guess we'll just have to wait for the next pile of documents to be dumped on WikiLeaks to find out.
...strange why is the US the only country to have all their internal spy docs dumped out there on the interwebz for all to see?


Quote:
View Post
Usually, if a target has male descendants, theyare also targeted so there's no immediate successor.
In today's "gender equality" world, I find that to be a very sexist policy. They should adopt a policy of "inclusion" and blow up the female and transgendered children as well, so that they are not discriminated against
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 07.02.2019, 19:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,249
Groaned at 59 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,765 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security threat

Not all.

But because they have so many, a small percentage is a large absolute number ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 08.02.2019, 09:35
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,191
Groaned at 279 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 20,883 Times in 7,591 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
Heart wrenching. But I felt something was missing in the story. The drones are only targeting 13-year-old Pakistani boys named Zubair? Or are they maybe, possibly targeting terrorists? And if that is the case, why isn't little Zubair afraid of them?
Because the drones target Taleban. These guys are running the show where little Zubair lives. You call the terrorists, for him are they essentially what the local government is for us. As long as you are happy to live in some fundamentalist state are they nothing to be afraid of. If Zubair was however female and still wanted to go to a school he would fear them...
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 08.02.2019, 15:10
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,374
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Huawei China national security THREAT

Quote:
View Post
Because the drones target Taleban. These guys are running the show where little Zubair lives. You call the terrorists, for him are they essentially what the local government is for us. As long as you are happy to live in some fundamentalist state are they nothing to be afraid of. If Zubair was however female and still wanted to go to a school he would fear them...
Ah ok, so aside from a little "toxic masculinity" the Taliban are basically just like any other government and Zubair is fine with that, and will most likely grow up to be one of them eventually. It's the evil US drones that strikes fear into his small, innocent heart.



Yes, I can see that, Taliban are there on the ground, his friends and family. The US is some bunch of strangers, speaking a different language, if he even sees them at all. Typical "us vs. them" stuff. Strange why the media paints a different picture, the picture of only a frightened child...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
china, hacking, huawei, nationa security, telecom




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Huawei P8 Lite - 110CHF kamudo Items for sale 4 04.04.2017 10:34
Travel Security - Threat assessment audiodruid General off-topic 41 23.10.2016 15:31
Swiss National Bank agrees to currency swap with People's Bank of China 3Wishes Finance/banking/taxation 3 21.07.2014 21:07
Opinion on Huawei G510 Littlestar TV/internet/telephone 12 30.11.2013 18:27
Iran, International threat or only threat to Israel ? ukal123 International affairs/politics 23 16.03.2011 02:28


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0