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  #101  
Old 21.05.2019, 09:53
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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"The U.S. government is threatening to reduce the amount of intelligence it shares with Germany if Huawei wins a contract to build the country’s next-generation 5G network."

Fun facts:
1. Huawei does not win any government contracts. The government sells the frequency spectrums and the companies who win those bids can choose the infrastructure they want to build up their networks. Thats how a free economy works…
I think the understanding of the state or of the free market economy is not the same in Germany as in US.
E.g. owners of Deutsch Telekom:
State ownership:31.9%

https://www.telekom.com/en/investor-...lder-structure
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  #102  
Old 21.05.2019, 19:39
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

The decision (if you can refer to this spurious mental aberration initiated by a few bird brained tweets as a decision) to deny the supply of silicon chips etc. to Huawei is ridiculous and self destructive because it highlights the US's unreliability as a trading partner. Who is going to design, develop, purchase or use products which incorporate some US technology and which could, on the slimmest pretext (usually some allusion to national security), be embargoed ? Certainly, alternatives including funding home grown ones will be given ample consideration.

Take the example of the Boeing 737 Max (the ones that just fall out of the sky). How likely is it that China is going to purchase more of these (or even allow them into their airspace - a related matter) if they fear that, at the stroke a pen on a US executive order, the supply of spare parts required to keep these things flying suddenly dries up?

Of course, it is not only China. All these purchasers of US weapons systems such as Lockheed Martin's fantastically expensive F35 fighter or Raytheon's Patriot missile system etc. may find themselves in the same position of having huge investments which, at a stroke, could be rendered worthless.

Another unintended victim of this "decision" is Google. What better demonstration of Google's monopoly position can there be than it being used as an instrument to sabotage the economic progress of a commercial rival? This will likely expose Google to all sorts of increased anti-trust scrutiny. (don't be evil )
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  #103  
Old 21.05.2019, 19:48
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

This has always been the case.

Ask Iran, how things are going....

It's just that China probably never thought it would end up at the wrong side of such an embargo.
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  #104  
Old 21.05.2019, 21:02
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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The decision (if you can refer to this spurious mental aberration initiated by a few bird brained tweets as a decision) to deny the supply of silicon chips etc. to Huawei is ridiculous and self destructive because it highlights the US's unreliability as a trading partner. Who is going to design, develop, purchase or use products which incorporate some US technology and which could, on the slimmest pretext (usually some allusion to national security), be embargoed ? Certainly, alternatives including funding home grown ones will be given ample consideration.

Take the example of the Boeing 737 Max (the ones that just fall out of the sky). How likely is it that China is going to purchase more of these (or even allow them into their airspace - a related matter) if they fear that, at the stroke a pen on a US executive order, the supply of spare parts required to keep these things flying suddenly dries up?

Of course, it is not only China. All these purchasers of US weapons systems such as Lockheed Martin's fantastically expensive F35 fighter or Raytheon's Patriot missile system etc. may find themselves in the same position of having huge investments which, at a stroke, could be rendered worthless.

Another unintended victim of this "decision" is Google. What better demonstration of Google's monopoly position can there be than it being used as an instrument to sabotage the economic progress of a commercial rival? This will likely expose Google to all sorts of increased anti-trust scrutiny. (don't be evil )
precisely why i thought the decision was dangerous and stupid. even if it was just used as a bargaining chip, this should give china enough of a scare that it will seek self-sufficiency from the US in all aspects as it cannot rely on them (arguably, this is what they have been trying to do all along).

some argue that china should do the same and try to leverage the supply chain to issue bans to the US. for the same reason, this would be a very bad idea and backfire on china. even the visit to the rare earth processing plant was too much imo. this may be enough to make other countries set up their own operations just in case. plus china may have more limited options - rare earth mineral exports might create a small disruption, but the materials can be sourced elsewhere and processing plants re-activated or built. but the US truly has unique resources that are not available elsewhere.

IMO, we are now witnessing the beginning of an overt technological cold war.
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  #105  
Old 21.05.2019, 21:24
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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precisely why i thought the decision was dangerous and stupid. even if it was just used as a bargaining chip, this should give china enough of a scare that it will seek self-sufficiency from the US in all aspects as it cannot rely on them (arguably, this is what they have been trying to do all along).

some argue that china should do the same and try to leverage the supply chain to issue bans to the US. for the same reason, this would be a very bad idea and backfire on china. even the visit to the rare earth processing plant was too much imo. this may be enough to make other countries set up their own operations just in case. plus china may have more limited options - rare earth mineral exports might create a small disruption, but the materials can be sourced elsewhere and processing plants re-activated or built. but the US truly has unique resources that are not available elsewhere.

IMO, we are now witnessing the beginning of a technological cold war.
China (and Russia) play a long game. The US, on the other hand, waits only until it has accumulated 140 characters of a "policy statement" and then just blurts it out in a tweet. That is the difference. China will no doubt carefully assess any advantage it has in rare earth elements and accurately calibrate any response. Xi and Putin are primarily statesmen. Trump is primarily a wheeling and dealing real estate speculator.
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  #106  
Old 22.05.2019, 20:43
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

Got a Xiaomi phone
got a Yallo (Huawai) box
feeling good
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  #107  
Old 14.07.2020, 09:37
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

I gave up reading the whole thread, its so long and in places off topic.

Everybody reading it needs to remember that China is full of little emperors.

Remember this https://qz.com/1323471/ten-years-aft...trust-remains/

Consider this https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...china-sea.html

And most recently this https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795

Their blocking US internet sites cause they want to tell their people their side of the story, it has nothing to do with spying, its all about control. They already denied they are responsible for covid-19 and reported as such widely in the Chinese press.

What the world needs to do with China is STOP manufacturing anything and everything there and pumping billions of $ into the place in the process.
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  #108  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:14
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

you have to remember that china is still a developing country with huge poverty even if china wants to portray only the modern cities.

as i've seen in poor places around the world (and even in the ghettos of the rich countries): life is cheap and people are desparate to make a living.

i think the long term answer is to bring as many people out of poverty as possible.
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  #109  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:34
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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What the world needs to do with China is STOP manufacturing anything and everything there and pumping billions of $ into the place in the process.



People need to stop buying the cheap stuff MIC.
You can't say "stop manufacturing it there", while you still buy it.


Of course, that's easier said than done, and more often than not, it means not buying anything at all. Which is kind-of a no-go for a society where consumption is the new religion.
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  #110  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:51
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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Of course, that's easier said than done, and more often than not, it means not buying anything at all. Which is kind-of a no-go for a society where consumption is the new religion.
This.

But I do think that even countries with lush lifestyles revolving around consumption will now focus more on production at home as opposed to imports. It will help the job markets, too, I think.

Home produced -> usually more expensive than MIC -> less consumption but higher quality. Maybe.
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  #111  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:53
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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you have to remember that china is still a developing country with huge poverty even if china wants to portray only the modern cities.

as i've seen in poor places around the world (and even in the ghettos of the rich countries): life is cheap and people are desparate to make a living.

i think the long term answer is to bring as many people out of poverty as possible.

So far, that has not helped.


Neither has allowing Chinese students to Western universities to foster some kind of grassroots understanding of democracy.


They just look at the level of dysfunctionality of our society and then go home convinced that they have the better system (which is true, unless you're part of an oppressed minority or a dissident or just on someone high up's ***-list).

Last edited by rainer_d; 14.07.2020 at 10:54. Reason: y
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  #112  
Old 13.04.2021, 10:10
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

This is a revisit of the thread because the consequences, previously discussed here, are becoming manifest.

The current global chip shortage has highlighted the dangers of ill thought through policies, which seemed good at the time they were hammered, late at night, into Twitter but caused immense and lasting damage through unintended consequences.

All those buzz phrases, beloved by MBAs, like "just in time manufacturing" and "lean inventories" have suddenly been rendered obsolete when supply chains are deliberately targetted for competitive advantage. The confidence that has been lost will probably never be regained. Hoarding of strategic resources will be the new norm.

Events have now made clear what Trump should have understood at the time.

I had expected more reaction from the chip producers who, having invested billions in technology of US origin, were forbidden from utilising all that to service a large part of their market share. Maybe they should belatedly speak up and threaten to treat US and Chinese customers equally.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Hu...-supply-crunch
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  #113  
Old 13.04.2021, 10:37
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Re: Huawei China national security threat

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This is a revisit of the thread because the consequences, previously discussed here, are becoming manifest.

The current global chip shortage has highlighted the dangers of ill thought through policies, which seemed good at the time they were hammered, late at night, into Twitter but caused immense and lasting damage through unintended consequences.

All those buzz phrases, beloved by MBAs, like "just in time manufacturing" and "lean inventories" have suddenly been rendered obsolete when supply chains are deliberately targetted for competitive advantage. The confidence that has been lost will probably never be regained. Hoarding of strategic resources will be the new norm.

Events have now made clear what Trump should have understood at the time.

I had expected more reaction from the chip producers who, having invested billions in technology of US origin, were forbidden from utilising all that to service a large part of their market share. Maybe they should belatedly speak up and threaten to treat US and Chinese customers equally.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Hu...-supply-crunch
the US measures are somewhat short-sighted in nature. ultimately, it will mean companies will avoid investment under US ownership/jursidiction (why invest with a significant portion of the addressable market banned) and companies will look for a backdoor to get out. US and China will be the losers here.
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