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Old 03.02.2019, 14:31
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University of Farmington: right or wrong?

What's your opinion about the University of Farmington case? I mean, we all know the problem but usually the culprit is the multinational companies "offshoring" an army of onshore resources. Was not aware of universities. Is this the case in Switzerland as well? SCIENTIA ET LABOR...

Josh
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Old 03.02.2019, 15:39
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

This is another area where the US "justice" model deviates from civilised standards in that it permits entrapment and promotes "agent provocateurs" with the objective of improving crime fighting statistics by creating crimes then solving them. This requires much less effort than solving real crimes which can anyway remain unsolved. Who cares ?

It was a bogus "university" set up by the US Department of homeland Security to catch people who would use an "education" ground to obtain a US visa. The "university" had a rather relaxed curriculum but presented itself otherwise as quite plausible, at least from its web presentation. However, it paid "recruiters" who were knowingly committing a criminal offence, to get people to enroll with the "university". Since the recruiters were clearly criminal, they would have been tempted to deliberately misrepresent the status of the "university" to the hapless individuals (students) that enrolled, effectively entrapping them. Clearly many students will have been duped by the recruiters.

And anyway, why should people be penalised simply because the university course they enrolled on was useless. Lots are. Yale University has (or had) a folklore professor. It was at one time possible in the US to do a course "Elvis Presley Studies". More useless is difficult to imagine.
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Old 03.02.2019, 15:44
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

That's a pretty vague link, OP. Here's one with more info:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47106199
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Old 03.02.2019, 16:52
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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That's a pretty vague link, OP. Here's one with more info:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47106199
I'm not catching it: why is India complaining about the arrest of their nationals? They were not duped at all and not even deceiving themselves : that university simply did not exist and they knew it before leaving their country; they had no intention to study in the US, they paid to bypass the green card process and get a job the illegal way.
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Old 03.02.2019, 19:07
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

I find this tactic pretty disgusting TBH. I wonder what was the average age of people involved... what is this proving, that if fish hard enough you can find people gullible enough to believe someone that is selling them the holy grail ?

There are people dying by thousands on makeshift boats, risking life through tunnels, jumping barbed wire and or living for weeks in shipping containers to cross borders illegally... and this what they come up with? Disgusting...
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Old 03.02.2019, 20:11
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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what is this proving, that if fish hard enough you can find people gullible enough to believe someone that is selling them the holy grail ?
To me this only proves (should it still need proofing of some kind) how hopeless is the wall at the Mexico border in terms of stopping illegal immigration in the US.
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Old 03.02.2019, 20:21
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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I find this tactic pretty disgusting TBH... what is this proving, that if fish hard enough you can find people gullible enough to believe someone that is selling them the holy grail ?

There are people dying by thousands on makeshift boats, risking life through tunnels, jumping barbed wire and or living for weeks in shipping containers to cross borders illegally... and this what they come up with? Disgusting...
First off, the 'gullible' people concerned were already in the US, trying to find ways of prolonging their stay, having already overstayed their student visas. I'm pretty sure there were many other applicants who were there legally and were therefore not caught up in the sting.

As for comparing with people-trafficking, I'm really not sure what connection you see.

Was it a good use of resources? Possibly not. But I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with what they did.
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Old 04.02.2019, 19:31
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

Here is a viewpoint from the "Times of India" which presents evidence that many students were indeed unaware of the bogus nature of the whole enterprise:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/67823186.cms
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Old 04.02.2019, 20:21
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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Here is a viewpoint from the "Times of India" which presents evidence that many students were indeed unaware of the bogus nature of the whole enterprise:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/67823186.cms
If that is evidence I am Elvis Presley. Come on...
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Old 04.02.2019, 20:48
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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Here is a viewpoint from the "Times of India" which presents evidence that many students were indeed unaware of the bogus nature of the whole enterprise:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/67823186.cms

My H1B is in process and I have already exhausted my Optiona ..


Seems to me a way trying to go around the regular immigration rules?
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Old 04.02.2019, 21:37
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

The system is that registration at certain courses of study give an entitlement to a visa so this can condition the applicants behaviour.

A parallel would be the Swiss authorities setting up bogus employment, knowing that people like to come to Switzerland for many reasons, then prosecuting the applicants for being motivated by the desire to get a work /residence permit and claiming they had not thoroughly checked out the employer. But we know that such a systematic deception would simply not happen here.

If the students were knowingly exploiting an illegal means of obtaining/extending a visa, then why was it necessary for the "authorities" to go to such lengths to present it as legitimate university. And why didn't they simply go after students who were studying for useless qualifications at existing educational establishments with a low attendance requirement instead of having to invent one. Like these, for example:

Harvard:
Folklore and Mythology
Ethnicity, Migration, Rights
Hysterical Women: A History ( a module from Women, Gender & Sexuality )

Princeton:
Dance
Gender and Sexuality Studies
Jazz Studies

University of Southern Maine:
BA in Liberal Studies, Humanities Track
BA in Social and Behavioral Sciences

etc. etc.

And why American Students are prepared to saddle themselves with a lifetime of debt to obtain such qualifications is a mystery to me.

More from Spiegel Online (German: )
http://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen...a-1251336.html
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Old 08.02.2019, 07:12
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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The system is that registration at certain courses of study give an entitlement to a visa so this can condition the applicants behaviour.
There is little to defend here: "students" involved belong to relatively wealthy families and giving unbelievable excuses to try and justify what they did. India is relying on these visa mills on a systematic basis. Not sure about a parallel with Switzerland on the educational side, but think about multinationals illegally importing IT workforce into Switzerland through a fake offshoring system, the release of visas and short duration work permits happens on a daily basis regardless of the referendum approved some years back aimed at controlling immigration.
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Old 08.02.2019, 08:46
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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but think about multinationals illegally importing IT workforce into Switzerland through a fake offshoring system,

Can you substantiate that?
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Old 08.02.2019, 09:37
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

Another article about this on the bbc website.

Doesn't really add anything new, just a couple more examples, but it's clear that even those who claim they didn't know it was fake were motivated solely by the desire to get visa extensions to be able to work in the US.

The Indian government and newspapers complaining about this seem to be starting from an assumption that there's nothing wrong, in principle, with shopping around for easy study programs in order to stay and work there. Claiming "it's not fair" when one such turns out to be a sting shows an astonishing level of hypocrisy.
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Old 08.02.2019, 11:34
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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Can you substantiate that?
I mean Indian resident employees getting three-month visa and short term Swiss work permit two or three times per year, and Indian resident employees getting long-term visa and Swiss work permit for a year or more (who will probably neven pay taxes in Switzerland when in fact they should). I am sure there are many of them in Switzerland, and the speed at which they get visas and work permits is shocking: isn't this a "fake offshoring" way of working? Do you think this is in line with the results of the referendum of a fews years back? And is this practice truly licit even if it openly conflicts with the opinion expressed by the Swiss voters?
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Old 08.02.2019, 11:48
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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I mean Indian resident employees getting three-month visa and short term Swiss work permit two or three times per year, and Indian resident employees getting long-term visa and Swiss work permit for a year or more (who will probably neven pay taxes in Switzerland when in fact they should).

No idea, but my Indian colleagues here do pay their taxes here and all my current and previous non EU and EU colleagues pay/paid their taxes here (unless they were also forced to pay in the US as well).


Still tiny example but I havenīt heard much about apparent tax dodging people from whatever country.


So which companies are you accusing of doing this?
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Old 08.02.2019, 13:17
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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And why didn't they simply go after students who were studying for useless qualifications at existing educational establishments with a low attendance requirement instead of having to invent one. Like these, for example:

Harvard:
Folklore and Mythology
Ethnicity, Migration, Rights
Hysterical Women: A History ( a module from Women, Gender & Sexuality )

Princeton:
Dance
Gender and Sexuality Studies
Jazz Studies

University of Southern Maine:
BA in Liberal Studies, Humanities Track
BA in Social and Behavioral Sciences

etc. etc.

And why American Students are prepared to saddle themselves with a lifetime of debt to obtain such qualifications is a mystery to me.

More from Spiegel Online (German: )
http://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen...a-1251336.html

I'm no dancer, or a jazz fan but these courses are not useless. The world would be a very boring, binary, sterile place without these subjects. Unless women's history, legalities surrounding different ethnicities and how the world works in general are irrelevancies. Mind you, I'm speaking as someone who nearly did a folklore MA at Sheffield... and you really wouldn't enjoy the title of my Masters lit thesis
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Old 08.02.2019, 13:21
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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Hysterical Women: A History ( a module from Women, Gender & Sexuality )

"What did you study?"

"Hysterical women"
"I'm doing that every day"
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Old 08.02.2019, 13:28
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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and you really wouldn't enjoy the title of my Masters lit thesis

Not sure if you can beat Wolfram von Eschenbachīs Parzival and the connection to the Cathares in Southern France?


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Old 08.02.2019, 13:29
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Re: University of Farmington: right or wrong?

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"What did you study?"

"Hysterical women"
"I'm doing that every day"
You know the "treatement" for so-called hysteria, right? Thank goodness folk started studying those useless social subjects...
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