Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06.02.2019, 07:53
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,779
Groaned at 163 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 15,273 Times in 6,181 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
Newt, surely
Yeah. I was just thinking that. An odious antisemitic lying newt.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at NotAllThere for this post:
  #22  
Old 06.02.2019, 08:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 285
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 202 Times in 129 Posts
KiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeable
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
Yeah. I was just thinking that. An odious antisemitic lying newt.
Personal attacks on character, no discussion of the issues or reduction of the discussion to simplistic slogans easily digested - troll heaven- welcome to the brave new world
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06.02.2019, 09:19
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,779
Groaned at 163 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 15,273 Times in 6,181 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Demonstrating that someone has a record of holding irrational beliefs and mendacity is fairly cogent to whether you ignore his ramblings (or as you call it "discussion"). He has zero credibility, and therefore no matter the issue, he's not worth listening to. If he's accurate and truthful in this instance, it's purely by luck, not by ideology or moral stance.

Do you dispute he's an antisemite with a loose grasp of historical truth?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06.02.2019, 12:07
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,594
Groaned at 210 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 20,185 Times in 8,603 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

I actually thought he was quite good as mayor, at least the first time round.


But somehow he seems to have let his ideology outgrow his pragmatism as he got older.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 06.02.2019, 12:37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 285
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 202 Times in 129 Posts
KiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeable
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
Demonstrating that someone has a record of holding irrational beliefs and mendacity is fairly cogent to whether you ignore his ramblings (or as you call it "discussion"). He has zero credibility, and therefore no matter the issue, he's not worth listening to. If he's accurate and truthful in this instance, it's purely by luck, not by ideology or moral stance.

Do you dispute he's an antisemite with a loose grasp of historical truth?
He is an old man (only a little older than me) who is clearly past his prime. I have not followed his utterings of late, but "Antisemite" is bandied around these days to include all those of the left in Britain who were traditonally sympathetic to the cause of the Palestinians. Since the modern Palestine/Israel situation has a lot to do with previous British foreign policy/actions, this is very understandable. Who do you look to for moral guidance here? Idealogical opinions abound and none of them seem to bring anything positive.

As others have stated, Red Kens positive legacy was his commitment and achievements in local London issues. OK, he should have refused to appear; but if you knew a little more about his history, you might grow out of puerile condemnations and realise that the media is exploiting him for their own ends
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KiwiSteve for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 06.02.2019, 13:41
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,779
Groaned at 163 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 15,273 Times in 6,181 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
I actually thought he was quite good as mayor, at least the first time round.
I'll give you that.

Quote:
But somehow he seems to have let his ideology outgrow his pragmatism as he got older.
Or rather he let the mask slip. Livingstone's antisemitic comments were not in the context of the cause of the Palestinians. And even if they were, they're nonetheless antisemitic. E.g. Hitler was a Zionist (based on antisemitic propaganda). And of course a Jewish journalist who he knew to be Jewish he accused of behaving like a concentration camp guard. If he isn't antisemitic, he's an enabler and promoter of antisemitism.

All antisemitics are anti-Israel. Not all anti-Israel folk are antisemitic. That doesn't mean that any accusation of antisemitism against someone who is anti-Israel is automatically untrue and just a deflection. Nor does someone proclaiming "Oh, I'm not antisemitic, I'm just anti-Israel" mean that they're not - they're simply using deflection to shut down the argument. You have to judge them by their actions. By Livingstone's actions, he's antisemitic.
__________________
Never ask an Englishman where he is from. If he's from Yorkshire, he'll tell you. If he's not, it's unfair to embarrass him.

Last edited by NotAllThere; 06.02.2019 at 14:04.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06.02.2019, 15:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bern
Posts: 58
Groaned at 31 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts
FairDinkum has annoyed a few people around hereFairDinkum has annoyed a few people around here
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Seriously...

Now Ken Livingstone is the bad guy as well es Corbyn .. And the funny bit is how each one thinks they've come up with that idea, convinction etc by themselves..

When you analyse all this murdoch mass media as well as other corp. who possess the whole media, everything we see, hear,etc .. and isnt it ironic, to see how Ken or Corbyn are both accused of anti-semitism ???

that's all they came up with ?? can you imagine this ? I mean , do you realise how there are horrible crimes behind some PM's , MP's etc and this is hardly ever really questioned, investigated or even when it is, it lasts for just a bit, but , about Corbyn's antisemtiism we can hear -every single dayyyyy- everywhere and all the time ?

when it comes to Ken Livingstone, sure one can think how he did some bad job when in charge for others he is great .. but in reality, he gets bashed only when he opnes his mouth concerning some big issues, geo-politics , the american hegemony ... and everyone finds this balanced and correct ?

Are we entering the idiocracy era or what .. I cant keep on asking myself this
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06.02.2019, 15:33
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bern
Posts: 58
Groaned at 31 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts
FairDinkum has annoyed a few people around hereFairDinkum has annoyed a few people around here
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

"By Livingstone's actions, he's antisemitic."

yeah right. HIS ACTIONS ?? What's this nonsense oh come on? There are no actions . ?

Perhaps historians could do some work and clear out some important information from the 2 WW .. there are many theories, about this or that , and so what ? big deal . Even jews are questioning the same issues which have happened in the past .. So, I do think how everyone should grow up a little bit and face the reality .. historical events , interpretations will always be there and this is in no way a huge problem as they're trying to rub it under our nose .

It's more like a bone actually, thrown to some hungry dogs (us) so we can fight over it and prove each other who's better or smthg?? Meanwhile, ton of extremely important issues, concerning us all , is passing by .. and here we are, like some obedient sheep... for important issues >> we trust our institutions .. mainly beacause even when we know how there's a huge game involving the elite, corruption, connections,interests ...


being bombarded with this makeup info here we are, getting our anger on whaT KEN Livingstone said about Venezuela , and totally silent and obedient on seriosly important subjects since, the media hasnt designated who's the bad guy we're assuming there is probably no one and everything (still)functions correctly . (yeah sure)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06.02.2019, 16:04
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,779
Groaned at 163 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 15,273 Times in 6,181 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
...ramble...
Quote:
View Post
...ramble...
Ah I see. It's all a ZOG conspiracy. Well done. Carry on.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 06.02.2019, 18:43
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bern
Posts: 58
Groaned at 31 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts
FairDinkum has annoyed a few people around hereFairDinkum has annoyed a few people around here
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

No , not at all . You see, there's something as elites and their interests.

For as far as Zionist movement goes on, I'm in fact zionist so I know what I'm talking about .
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank FairDinkum for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 06.02.2019, 19:59
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,779
Groaned at 163 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 15,273 Times in 6,181 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

I just look at the probabilities. Ken and Jeremy are antisemites or inadvertent (and unwilling to learn) promoters of antisemitism (based on their documented behaviour, if you don't like the word action), or, there's worldwide mainstream media conspiracy demonising them.

I reckon the former is more likely.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 06.02.2019, 20:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,594
Groaned at 210 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 20,185 Times in 8,603 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
I just look at the probabilities. Ken and Jeremy are antisemites or inadvertent (and unwilling to learn) promoters of antisemitism (based on their documented behaviour, if you don't like the word action), or, there's worldwide mainstream media conspiracy demonising them.

I reckon the former is more likely.
Maybe not so much in our day and age where quality journalism doesn't count for much but journalists love to jump onto the bandwagon and call for lynchings on the scantest of evidence. The mass of journalsitic output being in perfect agreement doesn't count as evidence in my book.

But in this particular case, and in view of the track records of both men, they must either be blissfully oblivious to the implications of what they're saying, or there is something to the accusations. So the question is, can they really be that stupid?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06.02.2019, 20:56
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TI
Posts: 139
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 192 Times in 100 Posts
chrissie7 has earned the respect of manychrissie7 has earned the respect of manychrissie7 has earned the respect of many
Re: The sorry show of Ken Livingstone

Quote:
View Post
As others have stated, Red Kens positive legacy was his commitment and achievements in local London issues. OK, he should have refused to appear; but if you knew a little more about his history, you might grow out of puerile condemnations and realise that the media is exploiting him for their own ends
His achievements in local London issues is very overstated. I lived in London from when he was head of the GLC to his second term as mayor, and went from ardent supporter to anyone but Ken for mayor. As head of the GLC, he managed to persuade Thatcher that it would be a good idea to abolish the institution and as mayor he abolished the Routemaster (after promising not to).

The 'community projects that got the funding they sorely needed' only got it if they were mysogynistic religious fanatics. Huge amounts of money were never accounted for while he was mayor.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
*EXTRA SHOW* Jimmy Carr: The Best Of, Ultimate, Gold, Greatest Hits World Tour The Laundry Man Commercial events 0 16.01.2019 13:13
Ken Dodd RIP Medea Fleecestealer General off-topic 12 12.03.2018 20:32
Calling Dr. Ken! i-b-deborah Jokes/funnies 27 25.05.2016 11:13
sorry this board is full of has been Vegan_Chef General off-topic 14 12.12.2012 23:05
Importing personal stuff, lots of questions sorry.. satans worm Finance/banking/taxation 0 05.09.2012 22:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0