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  #41  
Old 17.02.2019, 19:52
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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......That‘s the was our world is and unless we are willing to accept years of depression, the collapse or markets, pension funds etc. We are going to have to live with some sort of climate change...
Collapse of the economy or collapse of the planet, you choose. If the planet goes then so does your market.....

The truth of it all is simple, if we significantly reduce the meat that we eat, reduce dairy products, drink less coffee then the problem goes away. We'd all be healthier too so it's win/win. But we are stuck in our ways and most people don't actually give a sh*t.

You read it here first, pension funds are more important than the planet.
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Old 17.02.2019, 20:32
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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The truth of it all is simple, if we significantly reduce the meat that we eat, reduce dairy products, drink less coffee then the problem goes away.
No it doesn't.
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Old 18.02.2019, 06:57
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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if we significantly reduce the meat that we eat, reduce dairy products, drink less coffee then the problem goes away. We'd all be healthier too so it's win/win. But we are stuck in our ways and most people don't actually give a sh*t.
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No it doesn't.
It reduced the problem, slightly, though not enough to change the situation for future generations.
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Old 18.02.2019, 07:08
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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It reduced the problem, slightly, though not enough to change the situation for future generations.
I tend to think that while personal adjustment (or sacrifice) feed our need for the daily dose of altruism and positive self image (hello my years of no animal product whatsoever and other undecover priorities), in a larger perspective it does very little and is quite naieve. Abused, if you will, because it serves the governments too well. As if that was all that is necessary to do. Nope. It is up to the govs to actually implement meaningful legislature and large producers to start losing business if they keep abusing the freedom of the free market. We as consumers can influence, but whether one virtue signals about our personal sacrifice or not...is irrelevant, since it actually has a very little impact. Education and critical thinking skills impact more since they put power back to the consumer's choice. Govs are also elected by consumers...so. Climate Strikes might be a way to educate us, by kids. It seems quite genuine. There. A morning spiel.
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Old 18.02.2019, 07:13
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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I tend to think that while personal adjustment (or sacrifice) feed our need for the daily dose of altruism and positive self image (hello my years of no animal product whatsoever and other undecover priorities), in a larger perspective it does very little and is quite naieve. Abused, if you will, because it serves the governments too well. As if that was all that is necessary to do. Nope. It is up to to govs to actually implement neaningful legislature and large producers to start losing business if they keep abusing the freedom of the free market. We as consumers can influence, but whether one virtue signals about our personal sacrifice or not...is irrelevant, since it actually has a very little impact. Education and critical thinking skills impact more since they put power back to the consumer's choice. Govs are also elected by consumers...so. Climate Strikes might be a way to educate us, by kids. It seems quite genuine. There. A morning spiel.
you are just forgetting how resilient people are to change.

Last edited by MusicChick; 18.02.2019 at 07:15. Reason: Fixed quote
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  #46  
Old 18.02.2019, 07:21
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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you are just forgetting how resilient people are to change.
Can you change your poor quote habits?

I am kiddin!

I think people actually change fast if there are incentives. Sometimes top->bottom imposed new ways actually work. Canton Vaud imposed the difficult to manage garbage reduction scheme and it works.

Soon we get to "zero garbage" without blinking an eye. How much garbage have you produced so far, today?

Ok. That was a rhetorical Q.

Swiss society changes after a considerare amount of time, right? Canton Vaud is enormous. Yet, took a few weeks of financially sanctioning garbage volume, et voila. It is a total pita but does more for the environment than granola preachers.
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  #47  
Old 18.02.2019, 07:23
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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No it doesn't.
Think of all the feeding, processing, packaging, transportation etc. It's not just the gas that the cows produce or the mass deforestation for grazing land, it's the wider issue of all the resources used to get these products in the shops.
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  #48  
Old 18.02.2019, 08:05
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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Tbh I strongly believe that the only thing that really will help nature would be a world war that would decimate human mankind. There are to many of us, and let us face it we are not going to lay down our current luxurious way of living and Billions of other people are making their way up to achieve a higher level with higher consumption patterns. A small thing, take all the straws we use hundreds of billions of those a yr, chasing from plastic to any other material would only reduce some plastic garbage, as for production and transport nothing is changing. How easy it would be to just drink without a straw, but do we, no of course not.

I agree with this, though think a nuclear war will not be very environmentally friendly.


An outbreak of a deadly desease affecting only humans would be my, eh, 'preferred option'
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Old 18.02.2019, 09:43
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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I agree with this, though think a nuclear war will not be very environmentally friendly.


An outbreak of a deadly desease affecting only humans would be my, eh, 'preferred option'

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This guy sums things up pretty well:

https://un-denial.com/2015/11/12/und...gy-and-denial/

Actually the best way in my opinion would be to breed a superior human, one that sees it´s self as a global entity and try and kick-start the next step in our evolution.
It will probably get dramatic when we Newhumans start to replace the Untermensch because I don´t think they will go quietly into the night...


That beside the essay in un-denial is quite interesting, basically it says that we are already and irrevocably on the road to extinction. We just don´t know it yet.
I wonder if the end of our species mirrors the Kübler-Ross model of the five stages of denial as seen in terminal cancer patients: "denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
If that is the true then we won´t go out with a bang but simply fade away with a whimper.
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Old 18.02.2019, 10:53
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

I stopped following this 'undenial' piece the moment he got the unit of energy confusing with the unit of power. I also don't agree money being a claim on energy, in my view money is an exchange for time. And he completely loses it when he talks about humans evolving because they have no morality or denial of reality.


Typical 'the world is ending' drivel.
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  #51  
Old 18.02.2019, 12:35
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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Think of all the feeding, processing, packaging, transportation etc. It's not just the gas that the cows produce or the mass deforestation for grazing land, it's the wider issue of all the resources used to get these products in the shops.
What we eat and how it is produced and transported is only part of the problem, changing food patterns is not going to solve climate change.

PS: Vegetables, fruit, rice etc.. also need to be produced and transported
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  #52  
Old 18.02.2019, 13:31
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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I stopped following this 'undenial' piece the moment he got the unit of energy confusing with the unit of power. I also don't agree money being a claim on energy, in my view money is an exchange for time. And he completely loses it when he talks about humans evolving because they have no morality or denial of reality.


Typical 'the world is ending' drivel.
Well, the world isn´t going to end, just our civilization as we know it today.
All species on this rock have or will at some point come to the end of their run and go extinct. Up until now we have been able to adapt to new environments and challenges, now it would seem that we are at the end of our capability to so.

In all seriousness, perhaps a new version of Homo sapiens will emerge and take over. Or it already has emerged, I would like to think that there are among us a transitional human with the mental acumen to see it´s place in the world. Perhaps you yourself are, for instance when you shake your head at the waste and tut-tut at the rigidity of companies and governments and fume at those who still cling to an economy linked to the tragedy of the commons or the next time you ask yourself in the shop: "Do I really need this?"


For the rest I fear, Malthus will be proven correct.
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Old 23.02.2019, 16:48
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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Hi, so my school along with many other schools have been going on those climate strikes. What are your opinions?
Just a manipulation by the Green party.They need votes. Dont be fooled. The climate never strikes and always is in change. The whole thing has just become political.
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Old 23.02.2019, 17:23
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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... if we significantly reduce the meat that we eat, reduce dairy products, drink less coffee then the problem goes away...
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Think of all the feeding, processing, packaging, transportation etc. It's not just the gas that the cows produce or the mass deforestation for grazing land, it's the wider issue of all the resources used to get these products in the shops.
I think this is an over-simplified view. After all, what he said:

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What we eat and how it is produced and transported is only part of the problem, changing food patterns is not going to solve climate change.

PS: Vegetables, fruit, rice etc.. also need to be produced and transported
-------------------------

Think of all the people employed by the dairy, meat and coffee industries. Suppose nigelr's campaign to eliminate them succeeds. What will society do with all those unemployed people? We can't turn all dairy farms (for example) into similarly profitable alfalfa farms or whatever. Even if you re-purpose every farm, the stuff still has to get to the table. Globalization has opened the door and it's not easy to go back.

I don't know the answer, but me not eating meat or dairy in no way means the planet will be here in 100 years. There are enough nukes to destroy the planet with a push of the button. Whether I have steak or not tonight will never change that fact.
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Old 23.02.2019, 19:13
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

"We could have saved the Earth, but we were too damned cheap."

-Kurt Vonnegut
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Old 24.02.2019, 09:30
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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Just a manipulation by the Green party.They need votes. Dont be fooled. The climate never strikes and always is in change. The whole thing has just become political.
The whole climate change thing to me looks like a religion. The way things are going, the only thing keeping climate change deniers (heretics !) alive is that burning at the stakes releases a lot of CO2...
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Old 24.02.2019, 09:44
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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I think this is an over-simplified view. After all, what he said:


-------------------------

Think of all the people employed by the dairy, meat and coffee industries. Suppose nigelr's campaign to eliminate them succeeds. What will society do with all those unemployed people? We can't turn all dairy farms (for example) into similarly profitable alfalfa farms or whatever. Even if you re-purpose every farm, the stuff still has to get to the table. Globalization has opened the door and it's not easy to go back.
Hello EU. They love local farmers, don't they.
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Old 24.02.2019, 13:22
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

If you are serious about stopping climate change, then you should be sorting out how to make nuclear energy safe and then ubiquitous - the problem is that people are bad at regulatory frameworks, not anything technical. The resulting surplus of inexpensive power would allows us to freely desalinate sea water allowing afforestation and farming over large areas of today's deserts.

Then we should focus on the most efficient food production methods, which, yes, means local vegetable and grains, but also means no bio/organic stuff either - pesticides and fertilizer make land more productive. And then we should redistribute to be closer to the food sources - no more city life, everybody works from home, which is a farm/commune.

Air travel? Forget about it. Bring back ocean crossing passenger ships, again power them with nuke plants.

All the technological solutions needed are here today, people are just bad at organizing themselves. But give it time: Either we fill the planet to where such changes are essential, or something knocks the world population down first.
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Old 24.02.2019, 13:59
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

I think air travel can be maintained, but with electric driven propellors, not with jet engines.
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Old 24.02.2019, 14:39
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Re: Klima Streik/climate strike

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I think air travel can be maintained, but with electric driven propellors, not with jet engines.
I think air travel can be stopped
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