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  #181  
Old 02.07.2019, 08:20
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...cid=spartanntp
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  #182  
Old 02.07.2019, 08:42
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

If they are only coding, that they are being paid only $9 per hour is not is not too bad.
If, however, they are also writing the requirements statements and specifications, doing integration testing, verifying compliance with good practice, design rules and aviation regulations, generating the production dump for the flight control computer etc. etc. that would be more worrying.
Incidentally, expensive programmers can also produce sh*t code.
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  #183  
Old 02.07.2019, 11:54
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

All driven by the drive for cheaper and cheaper airfares. Passengers demand lower fares, airlines demand lower costs, suppliers demand their suppliers reduce costs as well.

Bob’s your uncle.
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  #184  
Old 02.07.2019, 22:42
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

So how is Boeing getting away with its workers not being paid state/city-required minimum wage (nominally $15/hour)?

https://complianceposter.com/2018/01...hington-state/

$9/hour doesn't even come close to covering the average Seattle apartment's nearly $2,000/month price tag.
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  #185  
Old 03.07.2019, 05:15
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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So how is Boeing getting away with its workers not being paid state/city-required minimum wage (nominally $15/hour)?

https://complianceposter.com/2018/01...hington-state/

$9/hour doesn't even come close to covering the average Seattle apartment's nearly $2,000/month price tag.
you sound like a union guy
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  #186  
Old 03.07.2019, 07:09
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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So how is Boeing getting away with its workers not being paid state/city-required minimum wage (nominally $15/hour)?

https://complianceposter.com/2018/01...hington-state/

$9/hour doesn't even come close to covering the average Seattle apartment's nearly $2,000/month price tag.
Those employees are in India, where local laws will apply.
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  #187  
Old 03.07.2019, 10:08
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Union guy? Hardly! I don't think student-type jobs such as burger flippers should be paid $15/hour. I just want those who develop primary flight control components (software, hardware, whatever) for airplanes types on which I fly (500,000 miles on 737s so far, going back to the -100/-200s) to have sufficient professional qualifications and experience so that they won't make mistakes that put me at the bottom of a smoking crater.

There's plenty of crappy software (and hardware) out there, which is fine. It just doesn't belong in mass transportation systems that can kill unsuspecting passengers.

The article says "In offices across from Seattle's Boeing Field," which is also known as King County International Airport.

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 03.07.2019 at 10:31.
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  #188  
Old 03.07.2019, 10:46
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Union guy? Hardly! I don't think student-type jobs such as burger flippers should be paid $15/hour.
They are here. Hence that crappy software chunk was not developed here. Maybe next time? If Boeing (and Airbus and others, I am sure) change their business model.

But I sense "no labor outsourced" certificate coming up.

Last edited by MusicChick; 03.07.2019 at 11:11.
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  #189  
Old 03.07.2019, 12:48
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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So how is Boeing getting away with its workers not being paid state/city-required minimum wage (nominally $15/hour)?

https://complianceposter.com/2018/01...hington-state/

$9/hour doesn't even come close to covering the average Seattle apartment's nearly $2,000/month price tag.
The main manufacturing plant is in Everett, which is not Seattle. Thus it's under the state minimum wage requirement, which is $12.

As bowlie said, the job was outsourced to engineers in India:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...hour-engineers

Read the article. Boeing has been cutting corners left and right and it has caught up to them. The wages they pay are an easy headline compared to the deeper problems the company needs to solve.
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  #190  
Old 03.07.2019, 13:06
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

nothing is more true then pay peanuts get monkeys in the IT world, you are not going to get quality programmers at $12 an hour in ANY country.

you really think some grad with zero real world experience is going to do a good job working for $12 per hour for some huge faceless indian outsourcing company working for a client they don't give a toss about in a part of the world they'll never go to, and if they do a bad job nothing will happen to them, and if they do a good job someone else will get the credit.
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  #191  
Old 03.07.2019, 13:21
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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nothing is more true then pay peanuts get monkeys in the IT world, you are not going to get quality programmers at $12 an hour in ANY country.
Amen

When I read things like "...are only coding, at $XX/hour..." my skin starts crawling

It's not really an issue of cost - it's about the mentality on how you can achieve quality in software development. Anyone that thinks that an army of PMs/BAs/SMs/QAs/testers/whatever put around a some poor coders can still deliver quality software needs a reality check. The quality starts with the programmer, and not many other people can do anything about it.

If you do software development you need to make sure your programmers are good. If you don't do that you might as well give up.
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  #192  
Old 03.07.2019, 18:23
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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The main manufacturing plant is in Everett, which is not Seattle. Thus it's under the state minimum wage requirement, which is $12.
The 737 (non-MAX and MAX) are built in the Renton plant, which is about 10 miles SSE of downtown Seattle, on the SE corner of Lake Washington. Everett, which is about 40 miles north in the largest building in the world by volume (or was when it was built for the 747 fifty years ago), makes only the 777, 767 (think tankers for Air Force), and 747-8 (yes, they still make 747s, about 0.5/month as I recall). No airplanes are built at Boeing Field, but the Boeing Delivery Center is there; that's where you go to pick up the proverbial keys for your new 737. Renton used to also build the 757 and, before that, the 727 and, before that, the 707 and 720.

The Indian work site is on East Marginal Way South, on the west side of Boeing Field, either in the city limits of Seattle or unincorporated King County (not part of any city), so min wage is about $15/hour. It could even be part of both, since city/county boundaries are extremely irregular, with enclaves, exclaves, etc -- just like the boundary between Switzerland and Germany.

Regardless of whether it's $9 or $15/hour, the rate is ridiculous. Back in 2001, Boeing was paying $60/hour for those kinds of jobs; many engineers also held pilot and/or mechanic certificates. I know -- I was one of them up until 9/11 resulted in 12,000 layoffs. I don't recall seeing any Indians.

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 03.07.2019 at 19:56.
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  #193  
Old 06.07.2019, 15:37
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

For those with black humour
Quote:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Since taking office I have been very strict on Commercial Aviation.
Good news - it was just reported that there were Zero deaths in 2017, the best and safest year on record!

3:13 PM - 2 Jan 2018
In reality the only thing Spanky has done for commercial aviation is to fail to replace the permanent head of the FAA since the last one left in January 2018.
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  #194  
Old 07.07.2019, 11:46
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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For those with black humour


In reality the only thing Spanky has done for commercial aviation is to fail to replace the permanent head of the FAA since the last one left in January 2018.
The tweet is from January 2018, though...
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  #195  
Old 07.07.2019, 12:37
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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In reality the only thing Spanky has done for commercial aviation is to fail to replace the permanent head of the FAA since the last one left in January 2018.
. . . and, within 5 minutes of comprehending the full scale of the disaster facing Boeing because of the Max debacle, launched new attacks on Airbus on the contrived pretext of "unfair" subsidies etc.
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  #196  
Old 07.07.2019, 14:06
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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The tweet is from January 2018, though...
Possibly the reason his tweet has "it was just reported that there were Zero deaths in 2017, the best and safest year on record!"

Coincidentally the FAA head resigned in the same month, no doubt confident he could leave the safety of commercial aviation in Trump's hands.

Incidentally it was not "the best and safest year on record", seven out of eight Obama years had the same result.
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  #197  
Old 09.07.2019, 01:51
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

FWIW, these "zero fatality" figures refer to "large commercial jet aircraft" operations in the U.S., and probably only U.S.-registered aircraft -- so Mr. We-Too-Low, Mr. Sum-Ting-Wong, and three other pilots who dinged their 777 in severe-clear weather and killed some people at SFO probably doesn't count.

Info for 2017 that I ran across showed 14 commercial accidents with something like 56 fatalities which did not fit the above criteria. "Commercial" only requires that you be (legally) charging for seats. So business and other private aircraft which can't charge are excluded.

Getting hurled through the upper atmosphere in pressurized aluminum tubes at Mach 0.78 or so is incredibly safe. Pretty much everything else is measurably less safe.

On Monday's wire -- 737 MAX first actual cancellation:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...cid=spartanntp

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 09.07.2019 at 02:04.
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  #198  
Old 09.07.2019, 13:42
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Ah, these wonderfully safe Airbus aircraft.
Quote:
WASHINGTON—Airbus and EASA are developing an inspection program for Airbus A380 wing outer rear spars (ORS) after reports of cracks on in-service aircraft.
The program, revealed in a proposed EASA airworthiness directive (AD) published July 5, targets “the 25 oldest wing sets” in the A380 in-service fleet. Affected operators are to conduct initial “special detailed inspections” on a schedule based on the aircraft’s age. Follow-up checks will be done every 36 months. EASA is taking comments on the proposed directive until Aug. 30.
Airbus and EASA will evaluate the initial inspection results and, “based on inspection findings,” may expand the program to other A380s, the proposed AD explained.

The 25 aircraft listed for initial inspections are between manufacturer serial numbers (MSNs) 0006 and 0038. An Aviation Week Fleet Data Services analysis shows that Emirates Airlinehas the most, with nine, followed by Qantas, with six. One of the Qantas aircraft is MSN 014, the airframe that suffered substantial damage following a November 2010 engine failure and was out of service for nearly 18 months. Singapore Airlines has four, while two aircraft once operated by Singapore are in storage with Afa Press UK Ltd. as the listed owner. The remaining airframes are with Air France (two), Lufthansa, and Portuguese charter carrier Hi Fly.
The initial program is in response to “occurrences” of ORS cracks on in-service aircraft, EASA explained. The AD does not say how many aircraft have turned up with cracks.
Airbus is developing a service bulletin that details the inspection procedures. The manufacturer could not immediately answer requests for more information.
The EASA directive does not link the new problem to an issue uncovered in 2012 that led to a fleet-wide fix. Airbus introduced—and EASA mandated—wing-rib retrofits when the original components began cracking, threatening the model’s design life. The fixes, rolled out over several years starting in mid-2012 and paid for by Airbus, covered more than 120 in-service A380s. A production-line design change covered unbuilt aircraft.
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  #199  
Old 09.07.2019, 14:11
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Ah, these wonderfully safe Airbus aircraft.
Indeed, there has never been an A380 crash; probably due to their excellent safety inspections and regimes as you described.
BTW the A340 also has a crash free record.
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  #200  
Old 09.07.2019, 16:12
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

From Feb 2006:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...e-load-204716/

{The wing of the Airbus A380 static test specimen suffered a structural failure below the ultimate load target during trials in Toulouse earlier this week, but Airbus is confident that it will not need to modify production aircraft.}

{… FEM calculations had already established that the A380’s wing had “no margin at ultimate load. We had a weight saving programme and ‘played the game’ to achieve ultimate load.”}

The 777 was good to 154%:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRf395ioJRY
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