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  #201  
Old 14.07.2019, 18:01
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gr...anntp#image=15


https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...cid=spartanntp


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ho...ket-2019-07-10

“The likely trigger for a market shock will be a ‘no-see-em,’” Blain predicted. “Something so obviously hidden in plain sight it catches us completely and painfully by the short and curlies.” And that trigger, he says, could be Boeing.
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  #202  
Old 14.07.2019, 18:33
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Whilst Boeing may still get the 737 Max back into the air at a point in time, yet to be determined, who is going to want to fly in a Boeing 737 Max anyway ?
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  #203  
Old 14.07.2019, 19:09
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Whilst Boeing may still get the 737 Max back into the air at a point in time, yet to be determined, who is going to want to fly in a Boeing 737 Max anyway ?
Well, according to this piece of "market research", which Michael O'Leary, CEO of Rynair generously made available in the public domain, one class of customer could well play an important role here:

"Germans will crawl bollock-naked over broken glass to get low fares."

source
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  #204  
Old 14.07.2019, 19:16
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Whilst Boeing may still get the 737 Max back into the air at a point in time, yet to be determined, who is going to want to fly in a Boeing 737 Max anyway ?
The pilots who actually know how to fly it.
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  #205  
Old 14.07.2019, 19:53
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

“Max” is just a marketing name. No doubt it will revert to 737-8 and 737-9, which are it’s official designation.

Or perhaps a new marketing name will be invented.
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Old 14.07.2019, 20:33
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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The pilots who actually know how to fly it.

Whether Je Public will fly on it is yet to be seen. They are notoriously fickle and even while Germans might crawl bollocks naked to get a cheap flight, if the plane isn't seen as being ultra reliable then it will be difficult to get them on it.



For time being, Boeing are really inspiring any confidence that they have resolved the problem and it's taking a long long time to resolve with no end really in sight.


Obviously the problem is far more wide-spread than initially thought and may involve a lot more than just some software problem patch.
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  #207  
Old 14.07.2019, 22:24
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Most punters have no [expletive deleted] idea which type of airplane they are flying on. As we see re-entry into service there will be a slightly increased awareness.

A couple rounds of £10 seat sales and those planes will be absolutely full.

You remember when the DC-10s were grounded after AA’s crash in Chicago in 1979? Once they figured out the problem (human error) the aircraft came back into service, and is still operating commercially today.

I’d fly the MAX, it will be the safest aircraft in the sky.
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Old 14.07.2019, 23:15
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

United joins American de-scheduling the MAX to early November:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...cid=spartanntp

Southwest's second extension runs thru October 1, so it will likely be next to re-extend, having to decide whether to include the holiday season.

Penny-pinching tourists may not care if they fly on a MAX, but they're just occasional low-yield seat-warmers to airlines. The real money is in business travelers, not just those ponying up for first class, but those paying $100/seat-hour or more for coach. Most of them I know are following the MAX problem and few would (or their spouses wouldn't let them) take a chance on a MAX.


I avoided the DC-10 for many years after Chicago. The -10 had numerous real design problems. Remember 1989:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...nes_Flight_232

where, despite the official cause being the cracked #2 fan disk, it likely wouldn't have crashed had the hydraulics for all three systems not been in such close proximity to one another, which resulted in loss of all hydraulic fluid.

Also, in Chicago, the aircraft only rolled after losing the engine because shrapnel took out the hydraulics holding the left wing's leading edge devices deployed, causing them to retract, resulting in the left wing stalling as the FO followed then-proper procedures and slowed the aircraft down to Vy.

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 14.07.2019 at 23:43.
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  #209  
Old 14.07.2019, 23:28
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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...I’d fly the MAX, it will be the safest aircraft in the sky.
I'd certainly hesitate, even if it was cheap. Several apps sprung up that will let you see if the flight you're considering will use a MAX, and I think a lot of informed consumers will at least think twice.

Then again, many many consumers are not informed and rarely travel. So they won't notice and will book whatever is cheapest.
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  #210  
Old 15.07.2019, 08:29
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Leisure travellers will choose their flights based on price and then on timing, frequent flyer perks . A very small percentage will chose the aircraft type. Price and timing are number 1 and 2. You can move these passengers by very small changes in price.

Business travellers chose first based on timing, frequent flyer perks, seating and then price. There are some of these travellers who consider the aircraft type but in a positive sense. (I want to fly on that new airplane, in that new business class, etc). Everyone is different but these four; timing; FF; comfort; price are the most important.

These are not guesses or my opinion, these are based on Industry statistics.

Give businessman a choice like fly the 737M or don’t go today; or you can avoid the B737M, if you fly out at 1100 rather than your preferred 0900 and their acceptance will grow and grow.

You can’t fly a plane (yet) without the guys in the pointy end and they cannot be compelled to fly if they have a reasonable belief the aircraft is unsafe. (Well at least in the Western world). As it comes back into service and the price is right, and is scheduled when I want to go I will fly it.
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  #211  
Old 15.07.2019, 09:15
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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The pilots who actually know how to fly it.
And who are they?
- The aircraft ignores the pilot
- Boeing decided not to train the pilots on MCAS

I've worked on aircraft software (and I was an aircraft techie before that), and in my professional-ish opinion some poeple at Boeing deserve execution or at least prison.
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  #212  
Old 15.07.2019, 14:01
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Ryanair, which has more than 200 Boeing 737 Max jets on order, appears to have re-named the plane the “737 8200”.

Europe’s biggest budget airline has not yet operated the aircraft, which has been grounded worldwide after two fatal crashes.

But a number of aircraft have been built for the carrier, and others are under construction.
It begins
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  #213  
Old 15.07.2019, 16:57
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Boeing just announced no flying before 2020.....at best
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  #214  
Old 16.07.2019, 02:28
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

From today/Monday's WSJ (subscription NOT required):

"737-max-grounding-could-stretch-into-2020"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...20-11563112801

Includes many comments, with some asking why the 737NG (600, 700, 800, 900, 900ER) is still flying, given that it uses the same flight control computer as the MAX, in which FAA found a problem. Per Wikipedia, there are some seven thousand NGs in service.
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Old 16.07.2019, 10:50
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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And who are they?
- The aircraft ignores the pilot
- Boeing decided not to train the pilots on MCAS
I get this and totally disapprove too, obviously. But know a couple of pilots who'd know. No excuse for Boeing. I don't think Airbus is any better, for that matter.

AlaskaGuy - what's your stake in this? And why your appearance here?
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  #216  
Old 16.07.2019, 12:41
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Includes many comments, with some asking why the 737NG (600, 700, 800, 900, 900ER) is still flying, given that it uses the same flight control computer as the MAX, in which FAA found a problem. Per Wikipedia, there are some seven thousand NGs in service.
Same (actually similar) Computer but different software.
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  #217  
Old 16.07.2019, 13:18
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

"Ryanair has said it will be forced to cut the number of summer flights it operates next year blaming further expected delays before the Boeing 737 Max is allowed to fly again.

The airline said it could be as late as December before regulators clear the aircraft to return to the skies after two fatal crashes.

It was awaiting delivery of 58 planes before next summer but it now expects to receive just over half of those.

It could also close bases as a result.

The airline said it was in talks with airports about which of its hubs could suffer cuts.

"We are starting a series of discussions with our airports to determine which of Ryanair's underperforming or loss making bases should suffer these short term cuts and/or closures from November 2019," the airline's chief executive, Michael O'Leary, said in a statement.

Ryanair added that it would talk to its staff and unions about the planned closures, which it said were "directly caused" by the delays delivering the 737 Max."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49000796
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  #218  
Old 18.07.2019, 09:47
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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It now appears that Ryanair has been using the designation “737-8-200” since they ordered it in 2014. https://www.boeing.com/commercial/cu...m-ryanair.page

The -200 designating the denser capacity (200 vs 189 seats) with an extra emergency exit at the rear.
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  #219  
Old 18.07.2019, 10:56
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

From what i understand, a few more emergency exits would be good idea on this wonderful airplane....
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  #220  
Old 18.07.2019, 11:35
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Actually 8 exits are required for up to 189 seats. Ryanair’s version will have 11 more seats; 200.

So far they are the only ones intending on going for the densest configuration.

A number of airlines flying the (non-Max) -900 and -900ER variants have these extra doors installed, but they are deactivated. You can see them from outside, but not inside (other than missing windows).
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