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  #21  
Old 11.03.2019, 13:03
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Indonesia has now grounded all MAX aircraft, along with some smaller operators such as Cayman Airlines. At least one of the Flight Data/Voice Recorders has been found. Hopefully answers will follow quickly.
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  #22  
Old 11.03.2019, 17:06
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Boeing began designing this 737 variant about 7 years ago as a reaction to Airbus creating a more fuel efficient A320.

Boeing's specific objective was that this plane should be similar to existing 737s. They would convince agencies that pilot retraining was not needed and this would be appealing for buyers. The engines on this variant are larger than existing 737s, as a result the engines are mounted higher and further forward. This meant that the nose under certain conditions would pull upwards so Boeing added the MCAS system to counteract this. Boeing convinced FAA and European agencies that training was not needed.

It is already suspected that a malfunctioning sensor and pilots not understanding the MCAS system caused the Lion Air crash. Given the similarities, I wonder if there will be a similar conclusion in this case. Will then be interesting to see what if any accountability there will be for Boeing and FAA.
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  #23  
Old 11.03.2019, 17:23
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Boeing began designing this 737 variant about 7 years ago as a reaction to Airbus creating a more fuel efficient A320.

Boeing's specific objective was that this plane should be similar to existing 737s. They would convince agencies that pilot retraining was not needed and this would be appealing for buyers. The engines on this variant are larger than existing 737s, as a result the engines are mounted higher and further forward. This meant that the nose under certain conditions would pull upwards so Boeing added the MCAS system to counteract this. Boeing convinced FAA and European agencies that training was not needed.

It is already suspected that a malfunctioning sensor and pilots not understanding the MCAS system caused the Lion Air crash. Given the similarities, I wonder if there will be a similar conclusion in this case. Will then be interesting to see what if any accountability there will be for Boeing and FAA.
Thanks for the written summary of the video Island Monkey posted last night.
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  #24  
Old 11.03.2019, 18:52
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

haha.. Don't I look silly. Although I must admit, I didn't look at the video. NY Times wrote an article about it early last month.
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  #25  
Old 12.03.2019, 05:50
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

https://www.ethiopianairlines.com/co...se/detail/1080

states:

"A senior captain named Yared Getachew with a cumulative flight hour of more than 8000 and with a commendable performance was commanding the flight along with first officer Ahmed Nur Mohammod Nur who had a flight hour of 200."

Someone with only two hundred hours of time has absolutely no business being in the cockpit of a 737. I wonder how much time he had when he was hired. Was this his first revenue flight?

For comparison with the U.S., since 2010, both cockpit crewmembers must hold ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) certificates, which requires 1,500 hours of time, not just to fly "heavy iron" (aviation-speak for transport-category aircraft aka jets), but even to fly regional (typically turboprop) aircraft.

Prior to 2010, U.S. rules only required first officers to hold Commercial Pilot certificates, which only require 250 hours. In the aftermath of the Colgan Air 2009 crash in Buffalo which killed 49 (plus one on the ground), U.S. rules were changed to as above (even though both Colgan Air pilots held ATP certificates).

I'm not saying that ET302's first officer's lack of experience in any way contributed to this tragedy, rather just pointing out that he was very inexperienced, implying that his ability to assist the captain when s**t hit the fan might be somewhat limited.

FYI, I hold a U.S. Commercial Pilot certificate (with multi-engine rating) and Flight Instructor certificate with about 1,000 hours in various types of aircraft, and was previously a Flight Deck Crew Operations Engineer at Boeing supporting Boeing test pilots and its airline customers. I currently own a little Cessna 170B floatplane in Alaska and recently acquired a complete (except for engines) retired Pan Am 747.
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  #26  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:29
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Singapore and Australia ban the 737 Max from entering or leaving.

"Singapore and Australia's aviation authorities have temporarily banned Boeing 737 Max aircraft from flying into and out of their countries.

The decision comes after an Ethiopian Airlines Boeing Max 8 crashed on Sunday, killing 157 people on board.

It was the second fatal accident involving that model in less than five months.

Singapore's Changi Airport is the world's sixth busiest and a major hub connecting Asia to Europe and the US.

But only a handful of airlines operate Max aircraft in and out of the country.

No Australian airlines operate the Boeing 737 Max, and only two foreign airlines - SilkAir and Fiji Airways - fly the model into the country.

Shane Carmody, who is in charge of aviation safety at Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority, said the suspension would remain in place while the organisation awaited "for more information to review the safety risks".

Several airlines and regulators around the world have already grounded the Max 8 model following the crash.

South Korea has asked Eastar Jet, the only airline in the country to own Max 8s, to ground its planes from Wednesday, according to the AFP news agency."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47536502
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  #27  
Old 12.03.2019, 13:00
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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South Korea has asked Eastar Jet, the only airline in the country to own Max 8s, to ground its planes from Wednesday, according to the AFP news agency."
Always find these things so "funny".

We are not convinced your plane is safe enough to fly on Wednesday, but Tuesday is safe enough since it else would be so much hassle.. Enjoy your flight.
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  #28  
Old 12.03.2019, 13:39
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Always find these things so "funny".

We are not convinced your plane is safe enough to fly on Wednesday, but Tuesday is safe enough since it else would be so much hassle.. Enjoy your flight.
There's no proven fault or official FAA grounding.

The time delay gives the airlines a bit more time to sort out replacement arrangements.

Makes sense to me.
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  #29  
Old 12.03.2019, 13:51
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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There's no proven fault or official FAA grounding.

The time delay gives the airlines a bit more time to sort out replacement arrangements.

Makes sense to me.
I know why they do it, but you only ground because you lost confidence in the plane else you would have no reason to ground it. Only they are confident that it is safe on Tuesday, but not on Wednesday.
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  #30  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:32
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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I currently own a little Cessna 170B floatplane in Alaska and recently acquired a complete (except for engines) retired Pan Am 747.
I'm just curious, what is the story behind buying a retired 747???
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  #31  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:45
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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I'm just curious, what is the story behind buying a retired 747???
How else do you do groceries in Alaska???
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  #32  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:47
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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There's no proven fault or official FAA grounding.

The time delay gives the airlines a bit more time to sort out replacement arrangements.

Makes sense to me.

There maybe no fire as such but there's certainly a lot of smoke.......
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  #33  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:45
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

The UK has now grounded them!

Pretty much just flying in the USA now.
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  #34  
Old 12.03.2019, 22:51
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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The UK has now grounded them!

Pretty much just flying in the USA now.
And Canada, both Air Canada and WestJet fly the type.

What we are seeing is politicians falling all over themselves tring to look like they are doing something. The experts are being prudent, awaiting news from Addis, and counselling operating airlines to perform additional safety checks.

While eyewitness reports are almost always unreliable, there are some that are saying the aircraft was trailing smoke before impact. If that is correct it would be a completely different cause than Lion Air.

The experts know the effect of taking an aircraft model out of service even for a few days. Lots of people are going to miss their flights. Just wait for the compensation demands.
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Old 12.03.2019, 23:18
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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And Canada, both Air Canada and WestJet fly the type.

What we are seeing is politicians falling all over themselves tring to look like they are doing something. The experts are being prudent, awaiting news from Addis, and counselling operating airlines to perform additional safety checks.

While eyewitness reports are almost always unreliable, there are some that are saying the aircraft was trailing smoke before impact. If that is correct it would be a completely different cause than Lion Air.

The experts know the effect of taking an aircraft model out of service even for a few days. Lots of people are going to miss their flights. Just wait for the compensation demands.
It sort of is the logical thing that these things happen.

Politicians/managers ask their technicians/technical managers and advisors: "Are these planes safe"

Now these people know that no matter how much they trust the planes that if anything would happen after they said "yes they are completely safe" that they will take the fall, so they don't answer that, and also they simply can't know everything about the plane.

Politicians/managers now know that if anything would happen that they would take the fall if anything was about to happen since they can't blame anybody else anymore. So no matter what these people think of these planes nobody is willing to guarantee it and take the fall.

So basically raising the question is already enough to get them grounded.

And who is going to pay for all of this, well the company's will say "not our fault, that the politicians/government forbids us to fly, this is not in our power so we don't have to pay ", the politicians will say "don't look at us, we just try to protect you", Boeing will say "we're not going to pay unless you can proof that something indeed was wrong with the plane"
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  #36  
Old 13.03.2019, 00:39
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Let us see if Trump can be presidential and manage this crisis of a major US manufacturer; more likely he will blame the Dems
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  #37  
Old 13.03.2019, 00:51
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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The experts know the effect of taking an aircraft model out of service even for a few days. Lots of people are going to miss their flights. Just wait for the compensation demands.
True.
I was on an Emirates fam trip to HKG in March 2012, when they grounded the A380s. Worse still, my client was the company that manufactured the suspect wing brackets
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  #38  
Old 13.03.2019, 04:31
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

This isn't the first time multiple 737s have augered in. Remember this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

In this case, two 737s augered in minutes before landing, one approaching Denver, the other approaching Pittsburgh. A you can see, it took 11.5 years -- until 2002 -- to get the airplanes really fixed.

You ask what I'm going to do with my newly-acquired Pan Am 747? Something like was done by friends of Jimmy Buffett to Howard Hughes' personal Boeing 307, but without removing wings or empennage/tail:

http://planeboats.com/

and operate it in some capacity in New York Harbor, since Pan Am was based in NYC.

I'm looking for someone (anywhere in the world) fluent in crowdfunding/social networking to orchestrate a multi-stage crowdfunding effort to (1) Prepare it for flight to JFK with borrowed engines, (2) make the 4-hour flight, then (3) float it. It last flew (for a different dead airline than Pan Am) in 2013. It's the last remaining (of only 13 built) passenger model that also has the "nose loader" flip-up door. It could be a restaurant/bar ,,, or anything!

Similar to:

http://panamexperience.com/

but not a fake inside a warehouse in LA.

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 13.03.2019 at 04:43.
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  #39  
Old 13.03.2019, 09:11
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

A 4 hour flight from Alaska to JFK? Must be the supersonic version.
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  #40  
Old 13.03.2019, 09:50
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Let us see if Trump can be presidential and manage this crisis of a major US manufacturer; more likely he will blame the Dems



Ruibbish, thisa plane was developed under Obama's presidency, it's obviously all hus fault and luckily we have Donald now to make it all right.
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