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  #61  
Old 15.03.2019, 00:49
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

“We had NO idea that this MCAS even existed. It was not mentioned in our manuals anywhere (until today). Everyone on the 737 had to go through differences training for the MAX and it was never mentioned there either,” the anonymous pilot posted. “I’ve been flying the MAX-8 a couple times per month for almost a year now, and I’m sitting here thinking, what the hell else don’t I know about this thing?”


"The fact that U.S. pilots were not informed about the change means that almost certainly the Lion Air pilots too were unaware."


interesting article:


https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/
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  #62  
Old 15.03.2019, 01:11
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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“We had NO idea that this MCAS even existed. It was not mentioned in our manuals anywhere (until today). Everyone on the 737 had to go through differences training for the MAX and it was never mentioned there either,” the anonymous pilot posted. “I’ve been flying the MAX-8 a couple times per month for almost a year now, and I’m sitting here thinking, what the hell else don’t I know about this thing?”


"The fact that U.S. pilots were not informed about the change means that almost certainly the Lion Air pilots too were unaware."


interesting article:


https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/
This sort of software solution may well be completely normal in this industry; to me it sound like a bodge!
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  #63  
Old 15.03.2019, 05:20
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Boeings production rate of all types is 52 a month, not just the B737.
See (from 12 Sep 2018):

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...rate-h-451853/

specifically:

"Earlier this year, Boeing boosted 737 production from 47 to 52 aircraft monthly, and plans another hike to 57 aircraft monthly in 2019."

On top of this are 787s in Everett and Charleston, 777s and 767s in Everett, and half of a 747-8F per month in Everett.

Perhaps by "all types" you meant just both flavors of 737s.


Interesting:

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/ar...tunity-for-us/

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 15.03.2019 at 05:34.
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  #64  
Old 15.03.2019, 20:17
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

From Sully:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...irlines-crash/


From LA Times:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...cid=spartanntp

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; 15.03.2019 at 20:32.
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  #65  
Old 17.03.2019, 12:29
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

The Boeing 737 Max affair is beginning to sound a bit like the Volkswagen Diesel affair.
That is an inherently weak technical concept was covered up by a concealed software feature.
In the Volkswagen case, the engines could not otherwise perform adequately and meet the pollution requirements.
In the Boeing case, the planes could not otherwise be sold on the basis of requiring only a minimum of pilot upgrade training.
In ultimate costs of such dishonesty are and are going to be huge.
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  #66  
Old 17.03.2019, 20:22
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

This is perhaps more telling.

"(Reuters) - Boeing Co's safety analysis of a new flight control system on 737 MAX jets had several crucial flaws, the Seattle Times reported on Sunday.

Boeing's safety analysis of the flight control system called MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) understated the power of this system, the Seattle Times said, citing current and former engineers at the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

The FAA also did not delve into any detailed inquiries and followed a standard certification process on the MAX, the Seattle Times reported citing an FAA spokesman.

The report also said both Boeing and the FAA were informed of the specifics of this story and were asked for responses 11 days ago, before the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX last Sunday, killing all 157 people on board. The same model flown by Lion Air crashed off the coast of Indonesia in October, killing all 189 on board.

Boeing was not immediately available for comment.

The FAA did not immediately respond to requests for comment."

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/boeing-...times/44830398
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  #67  
Old 17.03.2019, 22:30
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Not sure if this can be classed as an example of the law of unintended consequences.
It is claimed the US/China trade talks are stalling because a key part was China agreeing to buy many more Boeing planes but now the Chinese seem less enthusiastic!
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  #68  
Old 18.03.2019, 20:59
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

From today (Monday) U.S. edition of the Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/faas-73...ed-11552868400

This might prompt for a (trial) subscription. Usually, WSJ articles become "open" after a day or three.

Here is how it starts:

Boeing Jet Draws Criminal Probe

Federal prosecutors, DOT inspector general scrutinize the development of plane

Federal prosecutors and Department of Transportation officials are scrutinizing the development of Boeing Co.'s 737 MAX jetliners, according to people familiar with the matter, unusual inquiries that come amid probes of regulators' safety approvals of the new plane.

A grand jury in Washington D.C. issued a broad subpoena dated March 11 to at least one person involved in the 737 MAX's development ...
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  #69  
Old 18.03.2019, 22:33
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

The FAA subcontracted its inspection and approval process for the plane to Boeing's employees. Okay, nothing to see here then...

https://www.apnews.com/c6f08e5ff1264d909cd31914dc223f34
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  #70  
Old 19.03.2019, 08:28
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

It seems that the certification by FAA was somewhat compliant with Boeing and that there the plane was not fully checked out.



From what i understand (not much) as it was a variation of an existing plane, parts of the original certification for the 737, made over 40 yeas ago, were deemed to be still valid .......


This is getting very stinky for Boeing and in turn, the FAA......
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  #71  
Old 19.03.2019, 10:25
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Boeing, "Another too big to fail?"
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  #72  
Old 24.03.2019, 20:24
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

More Boeing stink from today's Sunday Seattle Times:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...orporatocracy/

and from tomorrow's WSJ:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fa...cid=spartanntp
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  #73  
Old 24.03.2019, 21:19
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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  #74  
Old 24.03.2019, 21:45
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

“Doomed jets lacked two key safety features that Boeing sold only as extras,” read The New York Times headline. The story described how Boeing sold bare-bones versions of the 737 MAX 8 to both Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines without dashboard sensors that might have helped avert the two recent crashes.

Source

How do we, the innocent passengers, get to find out if the airline we plan to fly with has installed all the optional security features
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  #75  
Old 24.03.2019, 23:10
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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“Doomed jets lacked two key safety features that Boeing sold only as extras,” read The New York Times headline. . . .
This headline reflects how Boeing will of course attempt to present it all as a cost saving choice in which the airlines knowingly participated, but the bigger issue is the looseness of the testing and certification procedure which allowed a dangerous software feature to slip in to production which could (and did), on a false reading from a single sensor, force the aircraft into a kamikaze dive and in a way not obvious to the crew.
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  #76  
Old Yesterday, 05:23
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Airlines not purchasing safety-enhancing options which might have saved the ship is nothing new.

Back in 1979, American Airlines flight 191, a DC-10 which crashed immediately after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare when the left engine departed the aircraft, might not have crashed if American had ordered the stick shaker for the first officer's position:

From:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...nes_Flight_191

"The DC-10 incorporates two warning devices that might have alerted the pilots to the impending stall: the slat disagreement warning light, which should have illuminated after the uncommanded retraction of the slats, and the stick shaker on the captain's control column, which activates close to the stall speed. Both of these warning devices were powered by an electric generator driven by the number one engine. Both systems became inoperative after the loss of that engine.[1]:54,55,67 The first officer's control column was not equipped with a stick shaker; the device was offered by McDonnell Douglas as an option for the first officer, but American Airlines chose not to have it installed on its DC-10 fleet. Stick shakers for both pilots became mandatory in response to this accident.[11]"
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  #77  
Old Yesterday, 21:48
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Airlines not purchasing safety-enhancing options which might have saved the ship is nothing new.
I have searched and searched but can't find it...but wasn't there some sort of tracking device or system that could have been installed on MH370 but wasn't? Not really "safety" as in the spirit of this thread, but something that could have helped locate the plane?

Or maybe my memory is faulty.
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  #78  
Old Yesterday, 22:05
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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I have searched and searched but can't find it...but wasn't there some sort of tracking device or system that could have been installed on MH370 but wasn't? Not really "safety" as in the spirit of this thread, but something that could have helped locate the plane?

Or maybe my memory is faulty.
Apparently, the transponder which sends the aircraft's coordinates back to base and a maintenance system ACARS which also relayed data were switched off:
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/mala...e-point-554273

There is a tracking service available, Inmarsat, but the service was not subscribed to by the airline at the time:
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...re-to-be-found
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Old Yesterday, 22:28
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Apparently, the transponder which sends the aircraft's coordinates back to base and a maintenance system ACARS which also relayed data were switched off:
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/mala...e-point-554273

There is a tracking service available, Inmarsat, but the service was not subscribed to by the airline at the time:
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...re-to-be-found
Ok thanks, apologies for the brief de-rail.
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Old Yesterday, 23:41
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

You might be thinking about "Black box in the cloud," which got some press during initial reporting on MH370.

From:

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...onstrator.html

"This is the first time the data from an aircraft’s Flight Data Recorder (FDR) has been streamed over a satellite network for the duration of a flight, thereby validating the Black-Box-in-the-Cloud use case. Additional first-time milestones included cockpit audio steaming, and the concurrent transmission of historical FDR and cockpit audio data and real-time data and audio."

"Even in cases where the physical aircraft data cannot be immediately located, the data streamed off the airplane can provide a head start in accident investigation and perhaps even accident mitigation and recovery."


Background (2015):

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...-technologies/


It looks like Boeing is posturing for its day in court ...

From Monday's Seattle Times:

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...kpit-displays/

Hamilton [chief engineer of Boeing Commercial Airplanes] defended the optional nature of those features by insisting that “all primary flight information required to safely and efficiently operate the 737 MAX is included on the baseline primary flight display."

That is, the baseline, non-optional displays are all that are needed for safe operation of the MAX.

“There are no pilot actions or procedures during flight which require knowledge of angle of attack,” Hamilton added.

Last edited by AlaskaGuy; Today at 00:02.
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