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Old 10.03.2019, 18:08
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Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

The Boeing 737 max 8 was only a few minutes into the flight from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia to Nairobi, Kenya when it crashed, killing all on board. There were 157 passengers and crew. The reports have said between 32 and 35 nationalities were represented on board, including 8 Americans, 18 Canadians, and 7 Brits.

Latest on CNN:
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-n...ash/index.html

and BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47513508

So sad. My heart goes out to the families.
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Old 10.03.2019, 18:19
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Sounds almost identical to the Lion Air crash last year. I'll be avoiding flying on a 737 Max until both those accident reports are published.

Also, sounds likely that a lot of UN staff were onboard :-(
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Old 10.03.2019, 19:14
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Sounds almost identical to the Lion Air crash last year. I'll be avoiding flying on a 737 Max until both those accident reports are published.

Also, sounds likely that a lot of UN staff were onboard :-(
Even though there's not a link established yet, it sure looks similar to the Lion Air crash so I'd also consider taking an airline/route with a different plane for now.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:08
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

My office put me on that Ethiopian Air flight or very similar to the same region a few months ago. After thoroughly examining the airline's safety record, I refused. Luckily, I could get another airline.

Interesting discussion while in Africa with a Canadian who praised the airline so much. So I pressed him on what was so great, and he said it was the one airline they could fly from north America direct that didn't have to transit in Europe, giving easier access to Africa. So it seemed he was praising the convenience and friendly staff. I didn't want to burst his bubble on the safety record, but maybe I should of in hindsight.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:09
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

There are at least 11 main varients of the B737 from the -100 which first flew in 1967 to the Max-10 which has yet to fly (Plus Cargo, military and Business jet versions). Approximately 1/3 of all commercial flights today are flown on one varient or another, operating thousands of flights every day. Probably around 6 1/2 to 7 thousand aircraft in commercial service.

The cockpit software differs by airline as well, as does the training. The Lion Air crash has tentavily been blamed on inadequate training of the flight crew. It could be the same with this incident, or something completely different

One thing is certain is the industry learns from its mistakes. There is no reason to assume this aircraft is any less safe than any other.

If the aircraft type was unsafe it wouldn’t be flying.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:12
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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My office put me on that Ethiopian Air flight or very similar to the same region a few months ago. After thoroughly examining the airline's safety record, I refused. Luckily, I could get another airline.

Interesting discussion while in Africa with a Canadian who praised the airline so much. So I pressed him on what was so great, and he said it was the one airline they could fly from north America direct that didn't have to transit in Europe, giving easier access to Africa. So it seemed he was praising the convenience and friendly staff. I didn't want to burst his bubble on the safety record, but maybe I should of in hindsight.
Compared to Air France, Ethiopian’s safety record is quite good. Most recent fatal incidebt was in 2010.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:23
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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My office put me on that Ethiopian Air flight or very similar to the same region a few months ago. After thoroughly examining the airline's safety record, I refused. Luckily, I could get another airline.

So where exactly is the problem with Ethiopian Arlines safety record ?
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:29
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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There are at least 11 main varients of the B737 from the -100 which first flew in 1967 to the Max-10 which has yet to fly (Plus Cargo, military and Business jet versions). Approximately 1/3 of all commercial flights today are flown on one varient or another, operating thousands of flights every day. Probably around 6 1/2 to 7 thousand aircraft in commercial service.

The cockpit software differs by airline as well, as does the training. The Lion Air crash has tentavily been blamed on inadequate training of the flight crew. It could be the same with this incident, or something completely different

One thing is certain is the industry learns from its mistakes. There is no reason to assume this aircraft is any less safe than any other.

If the aircraft type was unsafe it wouldn’t be flying.
Both the aircraft were 737 8 Max aircraft. Both very new. Both crashed a few minutes into take-off. It is thought that the Lion Air crash may have been caused by software that is supposed to lower the angle of the nose during flight (though nothing as yet has been confirmed). There is definitely a possibility that an issue with this software could put the aircraft into an unwanted dive.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:37
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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So where exactly is the problem with Ethiopian Arlines safety record ?
There were a few too many incidents, in particular compared to other airlines that operate similar routes. I travel a lot for work and regularly check such things out, this one raised too many red flags for me. But to each their own I guess.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:41
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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There were a few too many incidents, in particular compared to other airlines that operate similar routes. I travel a lot for work and regularly check such things out, this one raised too many red flags for me. But to each their own I guess.
Could you cite an example or two?
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:42
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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My office put me on that Ethiopian Air flight or very similar to the same region a few months ago. After thoroughly examining the airline's safety record, I refused. Luckily, I could get another airline.

Interesting discussion while in Africa with a Canadian who praised the airline so much. So I pressed him on what was so great, and he said it was the one airline they could fly from north America direct that didn't have to transit in Europe, giving easier access to Africa. So it seemed he was praising the convenience and friendly staff. I didn't want to burst his bubble on the safety record, but maybe I should of in hindsight.
The problem is not the airline, it's the airplane

I talked to a friend in Addis, the plane apparently has an autosystem that can not be manually overridden. If that is true, it's a crazy thing to implement in a new plane.
The plane went down nose first and so did the other one before.
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Old 10.03.2019, 21:51
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Both the aircraft were 737 8 Max aircraft. Both very new. Both crashed a few minutes into take-off. It is thought that the Lion Air crash may have been caused by software that is supposed to lower the angle of the nose during flight (though nothing as yet has been confirmed). There is definitely a possibility that an issue with this software could put the aircraft into an unwanted dive.
It could be a problem with the software, but with Lion Air it was more likely a problem with training with the new software. It could be something similar with Ethiopian, but it could be something different. It is too early to tell. But remember the danger of making assumptions based on media reports. You make an ASS out of U and ME.

Before jumping to conclusions let’s wait until the ‘black boxes’ have been found and decoded.
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Old 10.03.2019, 22:03
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Here is a nice video that explains the "possible" problem with the MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfQW0upkVus

2 hull losses in 5 months of airframes 3 and 4 months old..... there is a problem with that plane I'd say.... (if I'm wrong, hey I'm an Ass!)
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Old 10.03.2019, 22:16
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

From the BBC.

The Ethiopian Airlines tragedy marks the second fatal crash within five months involving a new type of Boeing aircraft.
The Boeing 737 Max-8 has only been in commercial use since 2017.
In October last year a Lion Air Boeing 737 Max went down shortly after take-off from Jakarta, Indonesia, killing all 189 people on board.
That aircraft was less than three months old.
Ethiopian Airlines flight ET302 also went down just minutes after take-off. The aircraft - registration ET-AVJ - first flew in October 2018, according to flight tracking websites.
How the plane differed from previous model
Jakarta-based aviation analyst Gerry Soejatman told the BBC the 737 Max's "engine is a bit further forward and a bit higher in relation to the wing, compared to the previous version of the plane. That affects the balance of the plane".
The Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee indicated that Lion Air flight 610 experienced "erroneous input" from one of its sensors designed to alert pilots if the aeroplane is at risk of stalling.
The inquiry has not yet reached any final conclusions about the cause of the disaster.



The sensor and connected software work in a different way to previous models of the 737, but pilots had not been told that.
Within days of the Lion Air crash, the aircraft maker Boeing issued an operations bulletin to airlines.
The US aviation regulator then issued an "emergency" airworthiness directive to US carriers about this sensor - a so-called Angle of Attack (AOA) sensor.
The Federal Aviation Authority said the sensor "condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain".
Who was sent the emergency alert?
US airlines were told to update information flight manuals for air crew.
At the time the FAA said the information was passed on to other national aviation regulators.
The expectation was that regulators would inform airlines and they in turn would update pilots.
Aviation sources say it almost certain that Ethiopian Airlines pilots would have been updated on the sensor issue.
There is no immediate evidence to suggest the Ethiopia Airlines jet has encountered the same difficulties as the Lion Air flight.
Aviation analyst John Strickland of JLS Consulting told the BBC: "There will be attention to the fact that this was a very new aircraft, the same type as that involved in the recent Lion Air accident and in a similar phase of flight - but detailed work taking time will be required to establish the cause."
What's Boeing's response?
In a statement on Sunday, Boeing said a "technical team is prepared to provide technical assistance at the request and under the direction of the US National Transportation Safety Board".
It has also said it extended its "heartfelt sympathies to the families and loved ones of the passengers and crew on board and stand ready to support the Ethiopian Airlines team".
The Boeing 737 Max has been the fastest-selling aircraft in Boeing's history, with more than 4,500 ordered by 100 different operators globally.
The initial findings of the investigation in Ethiopia will determine what action regulators and airlines take.
Ethiopian Airlines is regarded as Africa's leading airline.
Analyst John Strickland said it is "also recognised globally as a high-quality professionally-run company".


Emphasis added.
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Old 10.03.2019, 22:28
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

It appears that some Geneva based UN employees were passengers on this flight.
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Old 10.03.2019, 22:36
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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I talked to a friend in Addis, the plane apparently has an autosystem that can not be manually overridden. If that is true.......
It is not true.
There is an overide switch, the US warning basically highlighted the possible situation and how to resolve it (flick the switch).
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Old 10.03.2019, 23:01
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

It looks like the 737 Max 8 has a software and/or wrong sensor information error and there is no easy solution for the pilots like an "Autopilot OFF" switch.



https://www.aerotelegraph.com/boeing...e-fuer-737-max


Similar: Air France crash caused by wrong sensor information:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-7917949.html


a good pilot not only relies on an aircrafts instruments and software but also on his experience and common sense.
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Old 11.03.2019, 01:00
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Looks like China have decided to ground all of their 737 MAX aircraft.
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Old 11.03.2019, 06:50
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

Ethiopia too.

"Ethiopian Airlines said in a tweet on Monday morning that it grounded all of its 737 MAX 8s "until further notice."

"Although we don't know the cause of the accident, we had to decide to ground the particular fleet as an extra safety precaution."

The announcement came after China's aviation regulator ordered local airlines to halt the flights of 737 Max 8s.

More than 90 are in use by Chinese carriers including Air China, China Eastern Airlines, and China Southern Airlines.

Cayman Airways also grounded its two Boeings of the same type.

Several North American airlines operate the same aircraft and have said they are monitoring the investigation. Southwest Airlines flies 31, while American Airlines and Air Canada each have 24 in their fleet."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47519467
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Old 11.03.2019, 11:46
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines ET 302 crashed near Addis Ababa

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Ethiopian Airlines is regarded as Africa's leading airline.
Analyst John Strickland said it is "also recognised globally as a high-quality professionally-run company".
That.

Just dug out an old 'Airline Insider Rating' list from 2014. Ethiopian was a Category 2 back then, and has improved since. The 'Airline Insider Rating' list category meant agents could freely book this airline for our corporate clients, without any concern about their safety record. This is a shocking event... period, but also a shocking event within the industry.

Ethiopian were also ranked The Best Airline In Africa 2018 https://www.worldairlineawards.com/b...018-by-region/
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