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  #21  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ah innocence.

If you believe that....well I've got this Tower Bridge I need to get off my hands....
I think you will find HMRC will take a great interest in his tax returns, he chooses to reside in the UK so as a UK domiciled individual must pay tax on his worldwide income & capital gains. If he wished to avoid tax he could move to a more tax friendly jurisdiction & pay close to zero.

An LLP is not used like a Limited Co / PLC to reduce taxes by paying corporation tax instead of income tax, all profits are taxable to members at their marginal rate of taxation.
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  #22  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think you will find HMRC will take a great interest in his tax returns, he chooses to reside in the UK so as a UK domiciled individual must pay tax on his worldwide income & capital gains. If he wished to avoid tax he could move to a more tax friendly jurisdiction & pay close to zero.
Yeah sure all his millions are just held in simple bank accounts and building societies.

I'd be more dubious of his financial prowess if he hadn't figured out how to squirrel an adequate percentage away in shell companies tied up in trusts and whatever else these people use to dodge the tax they are due to cough up.

If he's that naive, he shouldn't really be in politics at all.

HMRC will only tax the stuff that they can see. It would probably take a Panorama team 12 months to unpick the rest of it.
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Old 12.03.2019, 14:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Hopefully JRM will be the next PM, clearly very intelligent, which is why he is so financially successful.
Just like Trump
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  #24  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think you will find HMRC will take a great interest in his tax returns, he chooses to reside in the UK so as a UK domiciled individual must pay tax on his worldwide income & capital gains. If he wished to avoid tax he could move to a more tax friendly jurisdiction & pay close to zero.

An LLP is not used like a Limited Co / PLC to reduce taxes by paying corporation tax instead of income tax, all profits are taxable to members at their marginal rate of taxation.
Possibly.

But there's plenty of more-or-less legal ways of sheltering income if you're rich enough to make it pay off.
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  #25  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yeah sure all his millions are just held in simple bank accounts and building societies.

I'd be more dubious of his financial prowess if he hadn't figured out how to squirrel an adequate percentage away in shell companies tied up in trusts and whatever else these people use to dodge the tax they are due to cough up.

If he's that naive, he shouldn't really be in politics at all.

HMRC will only tax the stuff that they can see. It would probably take a Panorama team 12 months to unpick the rest of it.
The change in the law a couple of years ago made trusts much less of a tax dodge, bringing trusts that previously had tax advantages back into the system.

We have seen from the accounts that he has huggable taxable income, why would a wealthy person risk prison due to tax evasion? It really does not make any sense.
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Possibly.

But there's plenty of more-or-less legal ways of sheltering income if you're rich enough to make it pay off.
Not really anymore for a UK domiciled resident other than ISA's open to everybody, pensions have a tiny limit & benefits are taxable. Unless they are 100% legal it's not worth someone in public life taking such a risk, plenty of jealous lefties trying to catch him out. Anyway it's his wife who is really rich from inherited wealth, not JRM
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  #26  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The change in the law a couple of years ago made trusts much less of a tax dodge, bringing trusts that previously had tax advantages back into the system.
Which is precisely the reason the entire Brexit debarcle is happening, according to my (accountant) brother-outlaw. I don't entirely agree with him, but he's adamant and has been predicting it for as long as I've known him, which is coming up for 8yrs.
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  #27  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Which is precisely the reason the entire Brexit debarcle is happening, according to my (accountant) brother-outlaw. I don't entirely agree with him, but he's adamant and has been predicting it for as long as I've known him, which is coming up for 8yrs.
The UK law on tax evasion is now as strong if not stronger than anywhere else. Makes CH laws seem a walk in the park.

For trusts
https://www.ey.com/gl/en/services/ta...g-requirements
It's now a criminal offence to 'enable' tax avoidance.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tax-avoi...ce-legislation
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  #28  
Old 12.03.2019, 14:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's a real eye-opener that in this Brexit frenzy over the past two plus years how the Leavers have cast all self-respect aside in favour of holding the hardline Brexiteers in some kind of infallible deity status.

The excruciating lengths that they go to to defend, simper, excuse and shield is quite breath-taking.

I have my own view on politics but cannot for one second believe that anyone is as god-like as is sometimes portrayed here. Everyone has their faults and everyone has their price. Especially those in power and especially those who are used to privilege and favour.

Just hope you're not going to be disappointed - it's a long, long way to crash.
JRM is not shielding anything, Audited accounts of his LLP are available for anyone to see, no requirement to log in, register or pay.
Try seeing the accounts of a privately controlled Swiss company in comparison.
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  #29  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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JRM is not shielding anything,
I never said he was.

Well not in my last post, anyway. That wasn't my point.
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  #30  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I never said he was.

Well not in my last post, anyway. That wasn't my point.
So who is then? & what is/was your point?
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  #31  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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JRM is not shielding anything, Audited accounts of his LLP are available for anyone to see, no requirement to log in, register or pay.
Try seeing the accounts of a privately controlled Swiss company in comparison.
Why are we conflating JRM's personal taxable income and that of Somerset Capital?

Also, didn't Somerset Capital open a fund in Dublin - presumably that isn't under the jurisdiction of HMRC. The parent company of Somerset Capital is based between the Cayman Islands and Singapore, all innocent I am sure and definitely NOT for tax minismisation purposes.
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  #32  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why are we conflating JRM's personal taxable income and that of Somerset Capital?

Also, didn't Somerset Capital open a fund in Dublin - presumably that isn't under the jurisdiction of HMRC.
NOPE, the members of Somerset Capital are liable to taxation of the profits in proportion to their membership, you are the one who is confused. If you had bothered to read the accounts you would know this.....

The fund would not suffer taxation in the UK either, investment funds are not taxed, only the unit holders when they make a sale of units (CGT) or dividends (Income tax).

Fundsmith has always had a Luxembourg fund for those who did not want to invest in 'UK assets', the feeder fund is a tiny proportion of the main fund. The Fund Manager Terry Smith now lives in Mauritius. With annual fund management fees of over £150 million who would blame him. Then of course JRM is small fry compared to Terry Smith.

EDIT accounts now attached
Attached Files
File Type: pdf somerset.pdf (1.44 MB, 13 views)
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  #33  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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We have seen from the accounts that he has huggable taxable income,
What's that? Did you mean huge?

(serious question)
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  #34  
Old 12.03.2019, 15:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What's that? Did you mean huge?

(serious question)
Yes, spell check & editing got the better of me.
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Old 12.03.2019, 15:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, spell check & editing got the better of me.
<<huggable taxable income>>
I kind of like that
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Old 12.03.2019, 15:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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NOPE, the members of Somerset Capital are liable to taxation of the profits in proportion to their membership, you are the one who is confused. If you had bothered to read the accounts you would know this.....

The fund would not suffer taxation in the UK either, investment funds are not taxed, only the unit holders when they make a sale of units (CGT) or dividends (Income tax).

Fundsmith has always had a Luxembourg fund for those who did not want to invest in 'UK assets', the feeder fund is a tiny proportion of the main fund. The Fund Manager Terry Smith now lives in Mauritius. With annual fund management fees of over £150 million who would blame him. Then of course JRM is small fry compared to Terry Smith.

EDIT accounts now attached
OK, so tell me from the pdf what figure you think JRM is paying tax on? What amount do you believe JRM is personally receiving in the UK?

(Hint: None of this is within the PDF you attached)
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  #37  
Old 12.03.2019, 16:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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OK, so tell me from the pdf what figure you think JRM is paying tax on? What amount do you believe JRM is personally receiving in the UK?

(Hint: None of this is within the PDF you attached)
Including his salary about £4,000,000. I can't be bothered to look at everything at companies house but Dispatches claimed 15% attributable JRM & he received a salary every month which he declares which is why I say 4 about Million rather than 15% of the stated profit.

I would expect JRM's tax bill to exceed £1,800,000 by a fair margin I am sure he has plenty of income & capital gains from his estimated wealth of 55 Million.
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Old 12.03.2019, 17:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As a UK taxpayer JRM will pay tax on any money he receives, holding the assets abroad makes zero difference to his personal tax position.

Somerset Capital Management LLP is registered at 28 Ely Place (3rd Floor), London, EC1N 6TD so is fully taxable in the UK.

I believe your understanding & interpretation is totally false.
I am sure JRM does pay tax, yet at the same time I am sure they (his company) have found sufficient loopholes to get out of paying as much as they should (that is merely a presumption of mine). However I was referring to some other key Brexiters. Regardless what you think it seems his business is about making money outside of the UK.

But I understand your support for these sorts of people and their sort of business as that seems to be the way you have amassed your fortune and why you are a happy tax exile in Switzerland.

Each to their own and all that, just don't sell ideas that are fraudulent in order to profit from them, thats all.
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  #39  
Old 12.03.2019, 17:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I am sure JRM does pay tax, yet at the same time I am sure they (his company) have found sufficient loopholes to get out of paying as much as they should (that is merely a presumption of mine). However I was referring to some other key Brexiters. Regardless what you think it seems his business is about making money outside of the UK.

But I understand your support for these sorts of people and their sort of business as that seems to be the way you have amassed your fortune and why you are a happy tax exile in Switzerland.

Each to their own and all that, just don't sell ideas that are fraudulent in order to profit from them, thats all.
A limited partnership has very little room to avoid tax, it's the same as any other UK partnership as far as tax is concerned, it's a red herring to think otherwise.

His investment expertise is not UK equities but Emerging Markets so it make sense he would invest abroad. I believe the largest investor in the second Irish fund is Swedish National Pension fund with $50 million.
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Old 13.03.2019, 08:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Including his salary about £4,000,000. I can't be bothered to look at everything at companies house but Dispatches claimed 15% attributable JRM & he received a salary every month which he declares which is why I say 4 about Million rather than 15% of the stated profit.

I would expect JRM's tax bill to exceed £1,800,000 by a fair margin I am sure he has plenty of income & capital gains from his estimated wealth of 55 Million.
Sorry, but if you believe this, as someone mentioned before, I've got a bridge to sell you.

As you presumably know, JRM doesn't directly own "his" stake in Somerset Capital, it is owned by Saliston, the company that holds his inherited property portfolio.
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