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  #41  
Old 13.03.2019, 10:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sorry, but if you believe this, as someone mentioned before, I've got a bridge to sell you.

As you presumably know, JRM doesn't directly own "his" stake in Somerset Capital, it is owned by Saliston, the company that holds his inherited property portfolio.
If you looked at the Saliston accounts you would realise that was not true, do I have to provide them or can you use google?

Investments shown £258,795
Other investments £444,445

Somerset has members capital of £15,623,611 so whilst Saliston may own 1/3% it does not hold his full stake.
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  #42  
Old 13.03.2019, 11:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you looked at the Saliston accounts you would realise that was not true, do I have to provide them or can you use google?

Investments shown £258,795
Other investments £444,445

Somerset has members capital of £15,623,611 so whilst Saliston may own 1/3% it does not hold his full stake.
Sorry mate, you are simply wrong here. If you can use Google, you will find dozens of articles stating that Saliston manages his stake in Somerset Capital, all the way from the right wing news...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/488680...papers-reveal/

to the left...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...hore-tax-haven

Are you suggesting that all of this is fake news?
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  #43  
Old 13.03.2019, 11:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sorry mate, you are simply wrong here. If you can use Google, you will find dozens of articles stating that Saliston manages his stake in Somerset Capital, all the way from the right wing news...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/488680...papers-reveal/

to the left...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...hore-tax-haven

Are you suggesting that all of this is fake news?
Poor journalism as they have not looked at the accounts. As Saliston is only required to produce small company accounts & no Audit it really can not be handling or holding the huge profits that come from Somerset.

In any case dividends would be taxable after corporation tax is paid so I really don't see any benefit, except to the government as the tax bill would be higher. UK corporation tax is 18% & additional tax on dividends plus 32.5% dividend tax on higher income.

Income taxable max 45% plus 2% Class 4 National Insuranve

Corporation tax plus dividend tax is 50.5%

Perhaps you can explain why he would not just pay the tax on profits at a lower rate & be done with it?

From your link 'There is no suggestion he avoided tax on any profit.' although you seem to be claiming differently!
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  #44  
Old 13.03.2019, 12:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I like how you pretend to be Warren Buffett one minute and then pretend to be the most naïve investor another. As you know, companies have much simpler routes to mitigating tax burden than do individuals.

You seem to imply that I have said he has either avoided or evaded tax. I have never said such a thing. I have just said it's quite possible he's a tad hypocritical and has used every possible avenue to minimize his tax burden using perfectly legal shell companies, overseas holding companies etc.

Unless he releases his tax returns, we shall never know though, rendering this discussion a tad moot.
He is quite keen on the idea
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...urns-rees-mogg

You claimed all his profits from Somerset went into Saliston, this is clearly not true & you were implying he was avoiding tax by doing so. Seems a tad unlikely as his tax bill would increase.

A property company & an investment management company won't have easy ways to illegally lose money. Remember Somerset's income is based on funds under management, costs hardly change as funds under management double. HMRC are fully aware of this.
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  #45  
Old 13.03.2019, 12:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A property company & an investment management company won't have easy ways to illegally lose money.
Why do you insist on bringing illegality into it? I've never made such an allegation.
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  #46  
Old 13.03.2019, 12:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why do you insist on bringing illegality into it? I've never made such an allegation.
So legally loose money, which is totally legal, what is your point other than jealousy?

As it happens I believe Dispatches have underestimated JRM's income as profits before members remuneration & profit shares was £34,255,435 not the £25,288,685 they highlighted.

I estimate his tax liability + NI is nearer £2,400,000 plus other tax on other income & capital gains.
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  #47  
Old 13.03.2019, 12:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So legally loose money, which is totally legal, what is your point other than jealousy?

As it happens I believe Dispatches have underestimated JRM's income as profits before members remuneration & profit shares was £34,255,435 not the £25,288,685 they highlighted.

I estimate his tax liability + NI is nearer £2,400,000 plus other tax on other income & capital gains.
Sigh. I am not jealous of moggy, I've more than enough money to live a happy, secure life for myself and my family. I was suggesting he might be a bit hypocritical is all. You seem to have taken a fundamentalist attitude to any potential criticism of him though.

What you estimate is just that. Until we see what he paid, we are both very much in the dark about this.
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  #48  
Old 13.03.2019, 15:34
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

Good thread here:

https://twitter.com/joncollins85/sta...85362690203648
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  #49  
Old 13.03.2019, 15:54
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

Sorry just for the uninitiated and in a nut shell, what is the controversy about? That an MP directly and personally profits from its decisions and opinions?
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  #50  
Old 13.03.2019, 16:34
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Sorry just for the uninitiated and in a nut shell, what is the controversy about? That an MP directly and personally profits from its decisions and opinions?
Some people might be bothered by that, and I think the initial calls of hypocrisy were because he is very pro-brexit and the benefits it brings to business, whilst simultaneously trying to divest as much of his business offshore (including to the EU in Dublin!) as possible.
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  #51  
Old 13.03.2019, 16:45
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Some people might be bothered by that, and I think the initial calls of hypocrisy were because he is very pro-brexit and the benefits it brings to business, whilst simultaneously trying to divest as much of his business offshore (including to the EU in Dublin!) as possible.
So they says, one should not diverse its portfolio and neither use hedging to reduce risk, but rather should go all in no matter what?

Edit: or are they implying that, when Brexit is a huge success the economy of the EU and the rest of the world will crumble and fall to ashes and thus it is foolish to invest aboard?
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  #52  
Old 13.03.2019, 17:02
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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So they says, one should not diverse its portfolio and neither use hedging to reduce risk, but rather should go all in no matter what?

Edit: or are they implying that, when Brexit is a huge success the economy of the EU and the rest of the world will crumble and fall to ashes and thus it is foolish to invest aboard?
More about preaching one thing and doing another.
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  #53  
Old 13.03.2019, 17:07
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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More about preaching one thing and doing another.
I don't understand, he has never run UK investments & he is not investing in the EU.
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  #54  
Old 13.03.2019, 23:27
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

Jo Maugham QC is currently having a right little dig about into Brexiteer profiteering on Twitter. So far, he's brought up Farage, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Nick Ferrari and Iain Dale. I wonder who's shorting Sterling......


Name:  jom.JPG
Views: 92
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https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/st...36076949082116
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  #55  
Old 13.03.2019, 23:45
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Jo Maugham QC is currently having a right little dig about into Brexiteer profiteering on Twitter. So far, he's brought up Farage, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Nick Ferrari and Iain Dale. I wonder who's shorting Sterling......


Attachment 136214
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/st...36076949082116
Sterling has gained almost 2% in the last 30 minutes, that would have been a very expensive short
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  #56  
Old 14.03.2019, 00:30
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Sterling has gained almost 2% in the last 30 minutes, that would have been a very expensive short
Where did I narrow the time scale to the last 30mins?
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  #57  
Old 14.03.2019, 00:32
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Where did I narrow the time scale to the last 30mins?
Same story for the last 3 months........ What time frame were you talking about in hindsight?
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  #58  
Old 14.03.2019, 00:55
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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More about preaching one thing and doing another.
Setting up an Irish fund is unlikely to have to do with Brexit. If it were about being inside of the EU (or out of the UK) the likely domicile would be Lux. But big investors may have unusual needs that have nothing to do at all with the management company itself and demand a different domicile. The management fee and, if applicable, performance fee will be taxed in and by the UK anyway upon payout to a UK domiciled person like JRM, to the extent the payout is indeed taxable.

This "scandal" looks very much like nothing but a whiff of hot air. Unless you think it's immoral to invest profitably.
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Old 15.03.2019, 12:10
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Same story for the last 3 months........ What time frame were you talking about in hindsight?
Looks like I wasn't the only person wondering...
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How Hedge Funds Gamed Brexit to Make Millions

March 15th, 2019, 6:11 AM GMT+0100
On the night of the Brexit referendum the British pound went into free fall, but while many watched with horror, a handful of hedge funds were making staggering profits. This is the story of the Brexit Big Short. (Video by Angus Bennett, Leila Hussain & Christian Capestany) (Source: Bloomberg)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...millions-video
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  #60  
Old 15.03.2019, 13:23
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Re: [thread split] Rees-Mogg, Somerset, Brexit profiteering

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Looks like I wasn't the only person wondering... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...millions-video
A geared gamble on currencies is not a one way bet, you need to remember other hedge funds were on the other side of many of those bets. Knowing when to open & close a position is also easy to see in hindsight.

Buffet won his bet that nobody could name a hedge fund that would beat the S&P 500 over 10 years which hedge funds don't do very well on average over time.
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