Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07.07.2019, 22:02
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,090
Groaned at 1,708 Times in 1,304 Posts
Thanked 31,435 Times in 15,035 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

My wife has two political refugees in her family, a great-grandfather who came here in 1864 from what is now Poland (but was then Russia) after he had to get out of Dodge after a failed uprising, and her ex who was a Vietnamese boat person.

Both went on to earn more than the local average wage, just saying.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 08.07.2019, 09:46
parkadam's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 383
Groaned at 17 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 288 Times in 126 Posts
parkadam has a reputation beyond reputeparkadam has a reputation beyond reputeparkadam has a reputation beyond reputeparkadam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Anybody who know us Americans by now,

Knows that we say one thing and do another.


Basically, without immigrants there would be no body to clean up our messy homes, do shit work and put food on the table.


God forbid if they should ever stop coming.

Regarding Mexicans and other Latin/South American migrants to the US, this is well-accurate statement - choice of words and language used by robBob may not be familiar to non-American English speakers. But I get you RobBob (I'm from Long Island).


Basically, (without the American lignuestics) RobBob is saying, that if us Americans stopped migrants at our Southern Boarder, the US would have economic COLLAPSE. If Mexico wanted to have the US crawling, begging, all they have to do is build the wall themselves, join all LATAM countries in calling him all immigrants immediately, and you'll watch the US go into economic depression the world has not seen before, if not war. I kid you not. Its the immigrants keeping our food and labor costs down and thus Prices down. Wipe that and game over. Any anti-immigrantion tactic is is just to get media attention and hype up an anti-immigration base!


Farmers stay quiet on this issue. Is as does the meat industry, as does the construction industry - you hear nothing from them. They know! Get rid of migrants and game over. Document all migrants and have them registered to pay taxes...GAME OVER. Enter insurances etc. etc. etc. So that's where RobBob is coming from (correct me if i'm wrong).


Regarding Asylum seekers, no clue why even they'd go to the US? Like Migrants, they get nothing. NO hand outs. Yes, no imprisonment, but talk to a Mexican working the fields..well...can't see where the analogy to imprisonment ends other than the need send money home..well no different than us in our jobs right? Except they get paid crap and not rights. Not even a welfare wage.


My uncle was an Ayslum seeker, but he didn't go to the US. He went to another country that will rename nameless. But he suffice to say he had 2 countries that wanted him dead and both of those governments put a price on his head (he was a journalist who uncovered corruption between the two governments; the 1980s when journalist were journalists). That govenment protected him and set him up; they covered him when extradiction requests came in. That's an Ayslum seeker if you ask me. Not to mention others who have the homes blown apart..that's Ayslum seeker too...but US..not a country that will give you much as a Asylum seeker to be honest, other than the right live....on the streets.
__________________
Long Islander and New Yorker (Upper East Sider in the House!) living in Kanton Aargau.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank parkadam for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 08.07.2019, 20:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,342
Groaned at 45 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 7,168 Times in 3,005 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Regarding Mexicans and other Latin/South American migrants to the US,
….
Farmers stay quiet on this issue.
….
Yes, no imprisonment, but talk to a Mexican working the fields..well...can't see where the analogy to imprisonment ends other than the need send money home..well no different than us in our jobs right? Except they get paid crap and not rights. Not even a welfare wage.
...

https://www.google.ch/search?q=thank...ipYoeeM:&vet=1
Thank you, Jesus, for this food.
De nada.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 08.07.2019, 21:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 612
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 764 Times in 357 Posts
scipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Taking in asylum seekers does nothing to help the people stuck in the home country and often rewards those people who can afford to pay smugglers to get them out of their home countries (it costs circa USD 3,000 per person to get from Syria to Europe). I see no rational benefit to taking in a few people who had the resources and network to escape. Many of these asylum seekers fail to integrate and quite a few come to resent their new homeland when they realize that all that glitters is not gold. Far better to help solve the issues in their countries so that these people can achieve their potential at home.
That's why a lot of countries, including Switzerland (3 Billion CHF each year) and the USA, do both. Taking in refugees and trying to help to improve local conditions.

Last edited by scipio; 08.07.2019 at 21:24.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08.07.2019, 21:45
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,342
Groaned at 45 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 7,168 Times in 3,005 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

What of those people who, no matter why they first set out to come here, end up in different circumstances from what they ever could have imagined, some dire, and need help?

Helping people out of compassionate grounds – even when the authorities have not – has a long and significant history in Switzerland.

During the Second World War, the Swiss government allowed some refugees from the rest of war-torn Europe to enter Switzerland. At some point, it closed its borders. There is a dramatic Swiss film (1981) about an aspect of this, called Das Boot ist Voll (the boat is full).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boat_Is_Full

Some private Swiss persons sometimes smuggled refugees across the border from Germany (for example by rescuing them with ropes and boats, as they tried to swim across the Rhine, and would otherwise have drowned), and some Swiss took these people in and, knowing that their lives would be endangered were they to be deported to Germany, hid them, allowing them to live under the radar of the immigration authorities.

A particular Swiss government official, Paul Grüniger, created many fake documents in order to help persecuted Jewish Germans flee from Nazi Germany and take up residence in Switzerland, or to allow them to travel through Switzerland to escape to other countries. When his activities were exposed, he was fired from his job, fined, had his future pension struck, and was publicly humiliated. During his lifetime, he never recovered from the chasm between the shaming to which he was subjected, and the truth of having done what his conscience had demanded of him. Many, many years later, after his death, his family members succeeded in having him officially “rehabilitated” by the Swiss government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grüningers_Fall

Fast forward 70 years. In 2008 the laws about helping foreign nationals out of compassion changed.

Background about this, and and some modern-day stories of people who have, in our day, been so prosecuted, is set out in this article (in German), by Pierre Bühler (of the netzwerk migrationscharta.ch) in the Tagesanzeiger of 21.12.2018
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz...story/29179486


Artikel 116 im Schweizer Ausländergesetz:
«Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer (…) einer Ausländerin oder einem Ausländer die rechtswidrige Ein-, Durch- oder Ausreise oder den rechtswidrigen Aufenthalt in der Schweiz erleichtert oder vorbereiten hilft.»

Vor 2008 stand dort noch, eine solche Handlung sei nicht strafbar, wenn sie «aus achtenswerten Beweggründen» geschehe. Das wurde gestrichen, sodass jede Solidaritätshandlung mit den Verbrechen der Schlepper vergleichbar wird.

Article 116 of the Swiss Aliens Act:
"A prison sentence of up to one year or a fine shall be imposed on anyone who (...) facilitates or prepares the illegal entry, transit or exit or the illegal stay in Switzerland of a foreign national.

Prior to 2008, the law stated that such an offence was not punishable if it was committed "for respectable reasons". This was deleted so that now any act of solidarity is regarded as the same as the crime committed by traffickers.

Pierre Bühler, and a network of over 100 Swiss lawyers including Melanie Aebi
https://advokatur4a.ch/de/team/melanie-aebli/
are seeking to have this law changed, and returned to the pre-2008 wording, through which people who, by showing social courage and acting for humanitarian reasons, cannot be prosecuted for helping foreign nationals.

They work though “Solidarité sans frontières” (solidarity without borders) https://www.sosf.ch/de/news/index.html
“Solidarité sans frontières (sosf) is committed to the fundamental rights of all refugees and migrants, regardless of their residence status.”
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 08.07.2019, 22:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 612
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 764 Times in 357 Posts
scipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
A particular Swiss government official, Paul Grüniger, created many fake documents in order to help persecuted Jewish Germans flee from Nazi Germany and take up residence in Switzerland, or to allow them to travel through Switzerland to escape to other countries. When his activities were exposed, he was fired from his job, fined, had his future pension struck, and was publicly humiliated. During his lifetime, he never recovered from the chasm between the shaming to which he was subjected, and the truth of having done what his conscience had demanded of him. Many, many years later, after his death, his family members succeeded in having him officially “rehabilitated” by the Swiss government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grüningers_Fall
Carl Lutz comes also to mind:
Quote:
Carl Lutz (30 March 1895 – 12 February 1975) was a Swiss diplomat. He served as the Swiss Vice-Consul in Budapest, Hungary from 1942 until the end of World War II. He is credited with saving over 62,000 Jews, the largest rescue operation of Jews of the Second World War.[...]
Together with other diplomats of neutral countries, such as Raoul Wallenberg, appointed at the Swedish embassy, Carlos de Liz-Texeira Branquinho and Sampaio Garrido at the Portuguese Embassy, Angelo Rotta, the Apostolic nuncio of the Holy See; Angel Sanz Briz, the Spanish Minister, later followed by Giorgio Perlasca, an Italian businessman working at the Spanish embassy, and Friedrich Born, the Swiss delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross, Lutz worked relentlessly for many months to prevent the planned deaths of innocent people. He and his colleagues dodged the actions of their German and Hungarian counterparts. Thanks to his diplomatic skills, Lutz succeeded in persuading Hungarian and Nazi German officials, among them Adolf Eichmann, to tolerate, at least in part, his formal protection of Hungarian Jews. Lutz's efforts to undermine the Nazi genocide were so bold and so extensive that, in November 1944, Proconsul Edmund Veesenmayer, the German representative in Hungary, asked permission to assassinate the Swiss Consul; Berlin never answered. The Swiss Minister, Maximilian Jaeger, supported Lutz until his departure at his government's orders as the Soviet Army approached in late 1944.[8] In the last weeks before the Red Army took the city, Lutz was helped by Harald Feller, who took over responsibility of the Swiss legation after Jaeger's departure.[8] Lutz's wife Gertrud ('Trudi') notably played a central supporting role during the whole period of her husband's activities in Budapest.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank scipio for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 08.07.2019, 22:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,352
Groaned at 98 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 1,401 Times in 811 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

There are laws, practice and ivory tower elites.
The brunt of the immigration is paid by the society economic lower class - because they share the same space and fight for the same resources - jobs and social transfers.
Therefore the ivory tower elites impose laws and their implementations that lead to BREXIT, Trump, AfD, Front National.

Despite the ivory tower thinkers, in most countries today everything is done to make the illusion of uphelding the law while also doing everything possible to keep the immigrants at bay so they can't even apply.

Any writing about unconditional upholding of the laws is either abstract wishful thinking or completely ignoring country's most vulnerable society group.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09.07.2019, 02:24
Sonnenbrand's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Zurich - Farm
Posts: 113
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 60 Times in 43 Posts
Sonnenbrand is considered knowledgeableSonnenbrand is considered knowledgeableSonnenbrand is considered knowledgeable
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

The thoughts here on this tread are above the normal par for English Forum...

The recession here in Switzerland has already started, no matter how much your income is. When you sell your own skin the recession starts.

Everyone is arguing about these issues.. As an American one of the things I have seen for years, since the 1990's.. is this issue and people arguing about it to no end.

The only thing going on is.. the Rich taking middle class money, they gave it to the "poor/foreign" workers and kept the middle part for themselves... and told you, you were important because you can go down to the mall and have a $50,000 credit card for whatever you and your kids want to buy.

At the end of the day most will blame the foreign workers and never wise up to the intentional erosion of economies.

Water follows the least path of resistance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sonnenbrand for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 09.07.2019, 06:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 8,145
Groaned at 265 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 10,443 Times in 5,579 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Despite the ivory tower thinkers, in most countries today everything is done to make the illusion of uphelding the law while also doing everything possible to keep the immigrants at bay so they can't even apply.
.
Yeah, see Calais jungle case and Eurotunnel. Greek islands, Italian shores and and and. Salvini is arresting sea captains that conduct rescue operations, Malta is refusing rescue ships access etc etc etc so this is the real life level we're talking about.

Nobody seems to believe that a lot of sub-Saharan people for instance are eco-refugees. Lots of folks on EF think they/their governments can prevent people from coming to Europe or elsewhere.

Yeah, some reality checks are in order...but let's keep alive yet another thread on refugees and rants on immigration, us being actually immigrants ourselves. Not to mention that not everyone who comes here is in a dead-end or manual job thus allegedely taking something from the Swiss poor....that's a hilarious thought actually.

Last edited by greenmount; 09.07.2019 at 07:04.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09.07.2019, 10:13
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 13,194
Groaned at 195 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 15,520 Times in 7,893 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
The thoughts here on this tread are above the normal par for English Forum...

The recession here in Switzerland has already started, no matter how much your income is. When you sell your own skin the recession starts.

Everyone is arguing about these issues.. As an American one of the things I have seen for years, since the 1990's.. is this issue and people arguing about it to no end.

The only thing going on is.. the Rich taking middle class money, they gave it to the "poor/foreign" workers and kept the middle part for themselves... and told you, you were important because you can go down to the mall and have a $50,000 credit card for whatever you and your kids want to buy.

At the end of the day most will blame the foreign workers and never wise up to the intentional erosion of economies.

Water follows the least path of resistance.
Imho - nobody blames the foreign workers. People aren't daft. But nobody blames the real culprits either and those, imho, aren't the rich as you put it (why would they care). But the people who simply want more political power in order to become rich. They are the ones who have a stake at this.

Last edited by MusicChick; 09.07.2019 at 10:25.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09.07.2019, 10:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,352
Groaned at 98 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 1,401 Times in 811 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, see Calais jungle case and Eurotunnel. Greek islands, Italian shores and and and. Salvini is arresting sea captains that conduct rescue operations, Malta is refusing rescue ships access etc etc etc so this is the real life level we're talking about.

Nobody seems to believe that a lot of sub-Saharan people for instance are eco-refugees. Lots of folks on EF think they/their governments can prevent people from coming to Europe or elsewhere.
Your examples of Calais camp etc are peanuts compared to the people detained in or deterred by Libya-like states in North Africa. You can easily assume the potential supply of immigrants/refugees from India, Asia, Africa and Latin America is endless.

Therefore it is completely illogical to focus on the Mediterranean sea, Libya or Calais as problems to solve.
These people should be instead let in in normal ways, which would be way safer and cheaper. But how many?

The by and large biggest expenditure of any state is its welfare. And its burden on the rest depends on two things:
- number of receivers, and
- number of high contributors.

The unemployed or not seeking work, part time and all the low paid jobs - they don't contribute, but they use the money indirectly from the contributors via "free" state services.

What % tax hike would you accept on your income and VAT?
- from that you can derive the max number of new low skill low paying jobs / unemployed immigrants that might be accepted into the existing welfare system.

Then another question is what is the capacity of the host country to actually not just feed them, but also to get them integrated in the job market and the local culture?

Some are pampered with the safety here. How about living in such a place instead?
http://www.leparisien.fr/seine-saint...18-7617825.php
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAwNFXqP8Wg



Quote:
View Post
Not to mention that not everyone who comes here is in a dead-end or manual job thus allegedely taking something from the Swiss poor....that's a hilarious thought actually.
Even with low skill immigrants coming from countries still relatively similar with work and societal culture to Europe there is an underclass forming for multiple generation.
Die Oberschicht gewinnt Einkommen und Status dank einfachen Tätigkeiten der neuen Migranten
That a mass immigration from Subsaharan in any form like that is a super wishful thinking.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09.07.2019, 11:01
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 5,759
Groaned at 245 Times in 165 Posts
Thanked 12,787 Times in 3,896 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

What distinguishes an asyl seeker from an immigrant? I certainly was no asyl seeker when I came to Switzerland nor were most of you. You were looking for opportunities abroad or came for love.

In Switzerland, those fleeing Eritrea, Afghanistan and Syria are granted asyl as long as they meet the necessary requirements. However, Switzerland is granting those from Turkey and Sri Lanka refugee status as well although both are booming tourist countries. Having spoken to a young asyl seeker from Sri Lanka who told me how her father had been murdered, it became easier to understand how she was granted refugee status. As for Turkey, it's a hot bed of political instability and historic persecution of minorities in their country. Get to know an Aramean or a Kurd and you'll hear stories that will make your hair stand on end. After having become aquainted with some refugees, I admire how Switzerland has tried to deal with asyl seekers. It's not a perfect process but it seems to work.

In America, however, nothing ever seems as cut and dry. Unless refugees are sponsored by an international organisation, America has closed their doors to people in need. Having said that, how does one assess the dire situation of those fleeing? Countries such as El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras have become incredibly dangerous countries for its citizens and yet Trump has deemed these "refugees" as invaders.

I understand Americans feel the need for "illegal aliens" who will work in those jobs that no one else will do, but juxtaposition of Americans turning a blind eye to their suffering "illegal" neighbours certainly has little to do with "freedom" and "equality."

https://www.amnestyusa.org/fleeing-f...igrant-crisis/

America has receded in their open door policy of helping the needy to the point that they no longer grant asylum to those who are in dire need of help due to their home country's political situation. Trump is feeding the poison that asyl seekers from the south are subhumans. Switzerland, on the other hand, has it easier because we are not a border country and do not have to deal with the huge influx of "refugees" like Italy, Greece, Spain and other border countries do.

Who is a refugee? Why should we grant them asylum? Why can't we just help those F*ç%ed up countries become more stable? How do I know those people aren't criminals? Why should I pay taxes towards other cultures trying to find a better life? All fundamental questions that show how human we all are.

I've got no answers but I think discussions like this can help us to understand the situation better.
__________________
Faith isn't about everything turning out okay. Faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 09.07.2019, 12:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,352
Groaned at 98 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 1,401 Times in 811 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
I've got no answers but I think discussions like this can help us to understand the situation better.
One could start by jailing and prosecuting those responsible for recent wars in Chechnya, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iraq and embargoes on the rogue states involved - including the main instigators - US, UK, France, Russia. Then would come the businesses corrupting governments in the affected countries...
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09.07.2019, 12:27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Currently in Switzerland
Posts: 266
Groaned at 10 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 220 Times in 86 Posts
logo123 has earned some respectlogo123 has earned some respect
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Interesting discussion. Some perspectives from my side.
Economic migration should be differentiated from genuine asylum seekers. Have a merit/point based system for the former. Stringent requirements for the latter.
Acceptance of migrants (both types) is inversely proportional to how well the economy is doing. If economy is doing well (real economy and not the indices), then people are more open and tolerant.
Migrants typically end up doing the jobs locals dont want to do. That is a sad fact and often keep the economy moving.
Climate change will have a massive impact on migration and EU and US are not prepared for dealing with that. What do you do when you have 1M people standing outside your borders? And that will happen in our lifetimes as climate change devastates crop patterns and water availability.
The onus is on the migrants to adapt to the host country (they have chosen to move there). That is forgotten. See the social tensions when people who migrate choose not to embrace the host country and insist on their special conditions to be protected - this in turns leads to more resentment and pushback.
Always easier to demonise the 'other' especially in times of strife/economic uncertainity (this is deeply hard-wired into us from the time when we lived in caves).
Politicians love to exploit this - both ways. Hardliners demonise the migrants and blame them for all ills. Liberals insist on open borders without realising that the idea of nation state is built on a certain level of homogenity and consistent alignment to common principles. And in a sad way, they both feed of each other. Trump's wall support the crazy idea of open borders and vice versa.
Small communities can be overwelhmed by massive migration especially when the incoming population does not integrate well.
The problem will only get worse because the numbers will increase dramatically in the coming years and we will look for simple, isolated solutions (build a wall) vs. thinking holistically (supporting sensible migration, addressing climate change, insisting on integration) etc.
__________________
Logotherapy
That which gives reason for being.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09.07.2019, 12:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Climate change will have a massive impact on migration and EU and US are not prepared for dealing with that.
Of all the things attributed to Climate Change, this is the biggest lie of them all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 09.07.2019, 12:41
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 5,759
Groaned at 245 Times in 165 Posts
Thanked 12,787 Times in 3,896 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
One could start by jailing and prosecuting those responsible for recent wars in Chechnya, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iraq and embargoes on the rogue states involved - including the main instigators - US, UK, France, Russia. Then would come the businesses corrupting governments in the affected countries...
Who has the authority to do something like that? God?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09.07.2019, 12:57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Currently in Switzerland
Posts: 266
Groaned at 10 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 220 Times in 86 Posts
logo123 has earned some respectlogo123 has earned some respect
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Of all the things attributed to Climate Change, this is the biggest lie of them all.
Sure. If you Believe so.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/...nge-migration/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ulation-crisis
https://unfccc.int/news/migration-an...ckled-together
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09.07.2019, 13:28
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
What distinguishes an asyl seeker from an immigrant? I certainly was no asyl seeker when I came to Switzerland nor were most of you. You were looking for opportunities abroad or came for love.

In Switzerland, those fleeing Eritrea, Afghanistan and Syria are granted asyl as long as they meet the necessary requirements. However, Switzerland is granting those from Turkey and Sri Lanka refugee status as well although both are booming tourist countries. Having spoken to a young asyl seeker from Sri Lanka who told me how her father had been murdered, it became easier to understand how she was granted refugee status. As for Turkey, it's a hot bed of political instability and historic persecution of minorities in their country. Get to know an Aramean or a Kurd and you'll hear stories that will make your hair stand on end. After having become aquainted with some refugees, I admire how Switzerland has tried to deal with asyl seekers. It's not a perfect process but it seems to work.

In America, however, nothing ever seems as cut and dry. Unless refugees are sponsored by an international organisation, America has closed their doors to people in need. Having said that, how does one assess the dire situation of those fleeing? Countries such as El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras have become incredibly dangerous countries for its citizens and yet Trump has deemed these "refugees" as invaders.

I understand Americans feel the need for "illegal aliens" who will work in those jobs that no one else will do, but juxtaposition of Americans turning a blind eye to their suffering "illegal" neighbours certainly has little to do with "freedom" and "equality."

https://www.amnestyusa.org/fleeing-f...igrant-crisis/

America has receded in their open door policy of helping the needy to the point that they no longer grant asylum to those who are in dire need of help due to their home country's political situation. Trump is feeding the poison that asyl seekers from the south are subhumans. Switzerland, on the other hand, has it easier because we are not a border country and do not have to deal with the huge influx of "refugees" like Italy, Greece, Spain and other border countries do.

Who is a refugee? Why should we grant them asylum? Why can't we just help those F*ç%ed up countries become more stable? How do I know those people aren't criminals? Why should I pay taxes towards other cultures trying to find a better life? All fundamental questions that show how human we all are.

I've got no answers but I think discussions like this can help us to understand the situation better.
I don’t see the comparison between the asylum seekers in Switzerland and the illegal immigrants turning up at the Mexican border in the US. Those trying to get into the US are not fleeing persecution or war, they’re just trying to make a better life for themselves. Which is fair enough, but they cannot be compared with the asylum seekers who have escaped war torn countries in Switzerland.

The Swiss system regarding asylum works very well because it is very strict. Asylum seekers know that there are few soft touches here in Switzerland, which is why many bypass Switzerland and head for Germany, Sweden or the UK.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09.07.2019, 13:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,352
Groaned at 98 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 1,401 Times in 811 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
Who has the authority to do something like that? God?
At least Switzerland has finally banned Pilatus from providing their services to Saudi Arabia and UAE:
Swissinfo: Aircraft company banned from providing services to Saudi Arabia
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09.07.2019, 14:18
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,090
Groaned at 1,708 Times in 1,304 Posts
Thanked 31,435 Times in 15,035 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Asyl Seekers: Switzerland vs. USA

Quote:
View Post
What distinguishes an asyl seeker from an immigrant? I certainly was no asyl seeker when I came to Switzerland nor were most of you. You were looking for opportunities abroad or came for love.
And most of all, we came here legally.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
asyl seekers, immigration, switzerland, usa




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best country to live: Switzerland vs USA vs (insert other here) ??? Brianzoeu Daily life 47 08.11.2018 18:01
Hockey game tonight Switzerland vs USA Bermudian in Zurich Entertainment & dining 2 18.05.2013 23:08
US Asylum Seekers in Switzerland? Jumping Captain International affairs/politics 24 22.10.2012 22:09
Eng Vs USA - Post Mortem tr_karthik Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 4 14.06.2010 14:36
A tale of two countries [USA vs Switzerland, luxury goods] RetiredInNH Swiss politics/news 12 24.12.2007 17:52


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0